5.5 man rotation

[bpo57]

JB believes that with the TV TOs and the additional team TOs and other time stoppages, players can go almost the full boat without needing an extended rest.

If JB, or anyone, believes that, we'll see these short rotations.

It's won him a lot of games.

Personally, I would rather have an extended bench now that gets shorter around tourney time.

There are myriad reasons why playing a very short bench (ie 6 guys) is a bad idea. Your team gets worn down (see Cooney, Trevor 2014/2015), you're very vulnerable when the inevitable foul trouble or injury occurs at the wrong time, you tend to get players that will rest on the defensive end which is exactly what this team does not need to do. Also it should be kept in mind that two of our full time players are freshman that will inevitably hit a wall later in the season.

There is no doubt that JB's frequent deployment of a "short bench" is his biggest weakness as a coach.

 

[Alsacs]

This year the short bench isn't JB fault. The NCAA screwed us on Diagne.
Then gave us back an 11th scholarship we can't use on anybody but Christian White.

We are only playing with 9th scholarship players. Chuwku is worth giving one to now but he is ineligible due to transfer rules.

McCollough left early even though he only played 16 games.

Our 9th guy literally doesn't play and he is a Junior Chino.

Our 7th and 8th guys are Freshman/Sophomore PGs who need time to develop.

Our 6th guy is a Freshman big man asked to play C in the zone when he will be a great wing next year.

Our 5th guy is a Junior recovering from microfracture surgery and that takes 12 months to get your legs and in a lot of cases Chris Webber/Tracy McGrady your legs don't come back.

Our top 4 are really solid including two 5th year Seniors/ a future NBA SG/SF who is a freshman and learning and great glue big guy PF.

We don't have depth this year to complain about JB's short bench.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Atleast Kaleb Joseph entered the circle of trust. I would call it a 6 man rotation. G, Cooney, RIchardson, Lydon, Roberson and .5 Coleman/.5 Joseph.

And it's tough to play KJ much unless he's replacing Cooney. Having both G and Malachi on the baseline is a recipe for disaster defensively and on the glass.

 

[Jasoncuse]

This year the short bench isn't JB fault. The NCAA screwed us on Diagne.
Then gave us back an 11th scholarship we can't use on anybody but Christian White.

Since we still lose 8 scholies over 4 years after the bogus ruling, shouldn't the fact that we aren't using 3 this year be a part of that? We should only be down 5 over the next 3 years, but I doubt the NCAA sees it that way.

 

[Jeremy L.]

JB believes that with the TV TOs and the additional team TOs and other time stoppages, players can go almost the full boat without needing an extended rest.

If JB, or anyone, believes that, we'll see these short rotations.

It's won him a lot of games.

Personally, I would rather have an extended bench now that gets shorter around tourney time.

I agree. Take somebody out around the 14 minute mark, bring him back in around the 11 (assuming play goes on for another minute) statistically it's a 3 minute break but factor in 2-3 minutes for TV timeout, stoppage in play and that becomes about a 7 minute break. Doesn't seem like a lot but for physical activities that extra 3-4 minutes is big.

 

[Pat Kelly]

There are myriad reasons why playing a very short bench (ie 6 guys) is a bad idea. Your team gets worn down (see Cooney, Trevor 2014/2015), you're very vulnerable when the inevitable foul trouble or injury occurs at the wrong time, you tend to get players that will rest on the defensive end which is exactly what this team does not need to do. Also it should be kept in mind that two of our full time players are freshman that will inevitably hit a wall later in the season.

There is no doubt that JB's frequent deployment of a "short bench" is his biggest weakness as a coach.

Remember when Trevor Cooney took the final shot in the 2013 Michigan Final Four game?

 

[tbonezone]

coming off three games in 3 days? No
Coleman? Not ideal, Saturday might get ugly...Gtown is desperate for s big win, talented , and deep with some big boys down low. Oh and they beat this Wisconsin team by double figures.

old dogs just don't like new tricks.

 

[Pat Kelly]

This year the short bench isn't JB fault. The NCAA screwed us on Diagne.
Then gave us back an 11th scholarship we can't use on anybody but Christian White.

We are only playing with 9th scholarship players. Chuwku is worth giving one to now but he is ineligible due to transfer rules.

McCollough left early even though he only played 16 games.

Our 9th guy literally doesn't play and he is a Junior Chino.

Our 7th and 8th guys are Freshman/Sophomore PGs who need time to develop.

Our 6th guy is a Freshman big man asked to play C in the zone when he will be a great wing next year.

Our 5th guy is a Junior recovering from microfracture surgery and that takes 12 months to get your legs and in a lot of cases Chris Webber/Tracy McGrady your legs don't come back.

Our top 4 are really solid including two 5th year Seniors/ a future NBA SG/SF who is a freshman and learning and great glue big guy PF.

We don't have depth this year to complain about JB's short bench.

He has to develop with what he's got... guys will eventually get in foul trouble and will have to play, you'd like to build some confidence in them

 

[EnnisEnvy]

Considering our rotation, who needs the extra scholarships, anyway? Didn't hurt us a bit NCAA, punk off!

 

[br801]

Which is the opposite of a guy like Izzo who will sacrifice wins in the regular season to have his team ready by the postseason.

Hmm... Remind me again who is a Tourney overachiever and who is a Tourney underachiever?

The notion that anyone as competitive as Izzo would consciously coach in a manner that is likely to result in a loss has always seemed rediculous to me.

 

[tbonezone]

metabolism. calories burned and glucose spent. it's science. proven. like global warming. ignore it you you want.
there's a good reason why world record lap times for the 440,880,mile and five mile drop off . it's called pace.
you can't go 100 % for extended periods. it's a fact. that's why your starter can't keep up with the scrub i sub in at the 10:00 mark. my scrub knows he's playing 3 minutes and goes full burn. your starter has to pace himself and can't keep up. this is basic bench theory. my B players can outrun out your A team. about 30 min.s a game to me seems ideal.

edit : (of course there's also that added benefit of getting court time for players who may be pressed into service for one reason or another down the pike but that's a different discussion worthy of it's own post)

 

[bpo57]

Remember when Trevor Cooney took the final shot in the 2013 Michigan Final Four game?

yep.

 

[bpo57]

The notion that anyone as competitive as Izzo would consciously coach in a manner that is likely to result in a loss has always seemed rediculous to me.

Two things: 1- I think he has a bit of a longer view where he wants his team to peak later in the year and he builds toward that; and 2- he demands maximum effort at all times and such effort probably can't be delivered to his satisfaction by guys playing 37-38 min a night.

 

[br801]

Remember when Trevor Cooney took the final shot in the 2013 Michigan Final Four game?

Yeah, wasn't that the game where SU got boned by crappy officiating that cost them their starting backcourt late in the game?

 

[rottweiler44]

Will be very interesting to see if Hop will be able to be himself, and if he is, what will he do? Its not that hard to get these guys some run around the TV timeouts and at the end of the half...standard practice in the NBA. Every minute in a game against high level competition is worth hours of practice time, plus it is motivating. Huge difference between 33-35 MPG and 38-40 MPG come March for the starters.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Yeah, wasn't that the game where SU got boned by crappy officiating that cost them their starting backcourt late in the game?

Yes that charge call was garbage, but point is that a coach has to be able to build a bench to the point where there's a couple guys on there you can trust just cuz of fouls, late season, fatigue, etc

 

[br801]

Yes that charge call was garbage, but point is that a coach has to be able to build a bench to the point where there's a couple guys on there you can trust just cuz of fouls, late season, fatigue, etc

Cooney averaged over 11 minutes per game behind MCW and Triche that season, more than ample time to be ready.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Cooney averaged over 11 minutes per game behind MCW and Triche that season, more than ample time to be ready.

You get my point though... need to develop a bench for situations when you are forced to have not ideal players playing in big situations

 

[Pat Kelly]

The notion that anyone as competitive as Izzo would consciously coach in a manner that is likely to result in a loss has always seemed rediculous to me.

Football teams rest QB's last game before playoffs... that is possibly sacrificing a win and you are doing so with a long-term vision in mind.

 

[br801]

You get my point though... need to develop a bench for situations when you are forced to have not ideal players playing in big situations

I have no problem with JB not preparing for scenarios that are unlikely to occur. And if you get to a national semifinal and somehow lose your starting backcourt to fouls late in the game, you're most likely screwed no matter how deep a bench you've cultivated.

 

[br801]

Football teams rest QB's last game before playoffs... that is possibly sacrificing a win and you are doing so with a long-term vision in mind.

They normally only do that when the last game has no bearing on their playoff seeding. Most NFL coaches keep their starting QBs in games long after they have been decided, so I'm not sure your example is a good one.

 

[pearl31]

so I'm not sure your example is a good one.

It's not a good one.

 

[Pat Kelly]

They normally only do that when the last game has no bearing on their playoff seeding. Most NFL coaches keep their starting QBs in games long after they have been decided, so I'm not sure your example is a good one.

That's not coaching to win the game. If you win a regular season game by 30 rather than 5, you might get a slightly better seed in the tournament, so why not keep playing your starters (aka best players) even if you're crushing a team? Because the game experience makes your team better in the long run.

 

[Pat Kelly]

I have no problem with JB not preparing for scenarios that are unlikely to occur. And if you get to a national semifinal and somehow lose your starting backcourt to fouls late in the game, you're most likely screwed no matter how deep a bench you've cultivated.

Once you get near the end of the tournament, all of the teams are talented... it's the intangibles that make a difference when all else is pretty much equal, so you'd like to have a good bench

 

[tbonezone]

"I have no problem with JB not preparing for scenarios that are unlikely to occur."

so when the kids are driving back from the casino and ...
these are college kids and unlikely scenarios happen every weekend. that's what makes college so fun.
we've been there and done that. lost several key athletes to incidents in no way injury related.