6 bubble teams in 12 years | Syracusefan.com

6 bubble teams in 12 years

CorduroyG

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o6 - bubble team before winning big east tourny
07 - bubble team, didn't get in
08- bubble team, didn't get in

09-14 - 2nd golden age of cuse hoops

15- bubble/probation team
16 - bubble team, got in
17 - bubble team, ???

Great run in the middle, but needed that 2nd title. I'm getting really sick of being on the bubble, we should be better than this.
 
I'm gearing up to make another open wager to the board. G, you're normally one of my go to members, but I'm going to make you a wager right now on the in or out. I'm more of a fan of the in and out, but either way. I saw another thread where you basically were saying in all likelihood we were out, so let's do this.

Rather than wagering everyone who would(that could have really added up) like last season, being it't early I will go with just you right now. I'm taking in... obviously. You name a reasonable amount and we're on with this filthy lot as out witnesses.
 
On the flip side......

1) Schools that have made the Elite Eight 3 times in the past 5 years:

Kentucky
Louisville
Syracuse
Florida

2) Schools that have made the Final Four more than once in the past 5 years:

Kentucky 3
Louisville 2
Syracuse 2
Wisconsin 2

It's no fun sweating things out leading up to Selection Sunday but it's quite hard to at least reach the E8 and I'll take the above results every 5 years no matter how we get there. It sure beats the previous 35 years of Boeheimball (4 E8s or better).
 
On the flip side...

1) Schools that have made the Elite Eight 3 times in the past 5 years:

Kentucky
Louisville
Syracuse
Florida

2) Schools that have made the Final Four more than once in the past 5 years:

Kentucky 3
Louisville 2
Syracuse 2
Wisconsin 2

It's no fun sweating things out leading up to Selection Sunday but it's quite hard to at least reach the E8 and I'll take the above results every 5 years no matter how we get there. It sure beats the previous 35 years of Boeheimball (4 E8s or better).
Agreed til the end. I prefer any period that includes 03 please.
 
o6 - bubble team before winning big east tourny
07 - bubble team, didn't get in
08- bubble team, didn't get in

09-14 - 2nd golden age of cuse hoops

15- bubble/probation team
16 - bubble team, got in
17 - bubble team, ???

Great run in the middle, but needed that 2nd title. I'm getting really sick of being on the bubble, we should be better than this.
Our margin for error is so razor thin right now, even when we play well. Many reasons for this, but I think it is simply time to start to collect talent. Less worry about how a player fits, who he is behind on a depth chart, etc. Just find and sign talented players ranked in the top 125 (or so) that want to come in, compete in top 10 program and challenge themselves in the gauntlet that is the ACC (basically, CBB's version of the NBA). That is the formula that Louisville uses, near as I can tell (even they've been challenged on this front in 2016-17 ... last week at UVa they had to start a walk-on due to injury & suspension).

I am hopeful that this is how Hop sees things (and BTW, this is not meant to question/undermine JAB, who I love). I just think it is undeniable that our roster management has been challenged the last 3-4 years for or a multitude of reasons, including injuries, transfers, early entry, etc. This is the "new normal" in college hoops, and the program has to do a better job accounting for this by emphasizing depth of roster.
 
Our margin for error is so razor thin right now, even when we play well. Many reasons for this, but I think it is simply time to start to collect talent. Less worry about how a player fits, who he is behind on a depth chart, etc. Just find and sign talented players ranked in the top 125 (or so) that want to come in, compete in top 10 program and challenge themselves in the gauntlet that is the ACC (basically, CBB's version of the NBA). That is the formula that Louisville uses, near as I can tell (even they've been challenged on this front in 2016-17 ... last week at UVa they had to start a walk-on due to injury & suspension).

I am hopeful that this is how Hop sees things (and BTW, this is not meant to question/undermine JAB, who I love). I just think it is undeniable that our roster management has been challenged the last 3-4 years for or a multitude of reasons, including injuries, transfers, early entry, etc. This is the "new normal" in college hoops, and the program has to do a better job accounting for this by emphasizing depth of roster.

It's just tough right now when you look at personnel.

1. I really thought Roberson would be a much better player this year than we have seen. If he is in beast mode, we are so much better. You can put at least some of this on the coaches as they have not done enough to get him to play his best and that is at least partly their job.
2. Coleman should be a veteran force by this point in his career, at least equivalent to AO or Rick Jackson. His knees prevented that. Can't blame the coaches on that one.
3. Frank Howard. Basically the same story as Roberson. I really thought he would be a strong player vying for all-ACC (2nd team or most improved, etc) type recognition this year based on how well he played at the end of last year. Same category as TR as far as who to blame. A lot on him, but some on the coaches too.
4. I thought Moyer would help us a little more. He looked very out of shape at the beginning of the year so they redshirted him. Good decision by the coaches.
5. PC. Again, I was expecting more. JB was high on his potential to be a defensive stopper and we know that when we have a legit rim protector in the middle of the zone, it is like rocket fuel for the defense. PC was apparently playing with vision problems from a very early point in the season and then got to a point of being blind in one eye so he was shut down. This one isn't on the coaches, just bad luck. I think he'll be a force in the future, but clearly he was supposed to be a part of this year's team.

On the plus side
6. Gillon. Has lived up to every bit of what we hoped he would be, but only after about 15 games into the season. That early part of the season is what will keep us out of the tourney.
7. White. I feel he has been solid the entire year and has improved throughout. Can't argue with him (or Gillon) as key pick ups in the offseason.
8. TT. The guy is going to be an all time great if he stays here. He has taken a long time to pick up the defense, but his offense is spectacular.
9. TL. Basically he's been good to excellent for most of the year, no complaints.
10. TB. He has been coming on strong (until he got sick), but was hampered by the foot earlier. He was a one dimensional player at the beginning which really limited our offense when combined with a still figuring it out Gillon and a more on dimensional White who hadn't expanded his game yet. Again - this was a key factor in our early season woes. Overall he is a big win and if he stays will be a stud.
 
Our margin for error is so razor thin right now, even when we play well. Many reasons for this, but I think it is simply time to start to collect talent.
Yeah, it's ok to have a roster of 11 guys, if eight are capable playing minutes and a back-up or two. No team in the country has an all-conference back-up at every position, but a lot have a full roster at least.
2. Coleman should be a veteran force by this point in his career,
Coleman has been a tough one. I don't blame him at all, more so the rules because it's tough to carry an injured player on an already shorthanded roster. I know there's no DL for college hoops, but imagine if baseball teams couldn't add a healthy player through the season?
 
o6 - bubble team before winning big east tourny
07 - bubble team, didn't get in
08- bubble team, didn't get in

09-14 - 2nd golden age of cuse hoops

15- bubble/probation team
16 - bubble team, got in
17 - bubble team, ???

Great run in the middle, but needed that 2nd title. I'm getting really sick of being on the bubble, we should be better than this.
Why should SU be better?
 
o6 - bubble team before winning big east tourny
07 - bubble team, didn't get in
08- bubble team, didn't get in

09-14 - 2nd golden age of cuse hoops

15- bubble/probation team
16 - bubble team, got in
17 - bubble team, ???

Great run in the middle, but needed that 2nd title. I'm getting really sick of being on the bubble, we should be better than this.
It's all in positioning as any good marketer knows. Syracuse is an elite bubble team. That's our position and I'm sticking to it. Need to put a big ad push behind it.
 
there was a time syracuse hoops thrived in the top 25 . nowadays it's rarified air .
 
On the flip side...

1) Schools that have made the Elite Eight 3 times in the past 5 years:

Kentucky
Louisville
Syracuse
Florida

2) Schools that have made the Final Four more than once in the past 5 years:

Kentucky 3
Louisville 2
Syracuse 2
Wisconsin 2

It's no fun sweating things out leading up to Selection Sunday but it's quite hard to at least reach the E8 and I'll take the above results every 5 years no matter how we get there. It sure beats the previous 35 years of Boeheimball (4 E8s or better).
Very good point - For a long time, we were known as a team with great regular seasons and disappointment in the tourney. Maybe now we will be known for the opposite. I'm sure there's someone else that can run the numbers to see if these claims are justified...
 
It's just tough right now when you look at personnel.

1. I really thought Roberson would be a much better player this year than we have seen. If he is in beast mode, we are so much better. You can put at least some of this on the coaches as they have not done enough to get him to play his best and that is at least partly their job.
2. Coleman should be a veteran force by this point in his career, at least equivalent to AO or Rick Jackson. His knees prevented that. Can't blame the coaches on that one.
3. Frank Howard. Basically the same story as Roberson. I really thought he would be a strong player vying for all-ACC (2nd team or most improved, etc) type recognition this year based on how well he played at the end of last year. Same category as TR as far as who to blame. A lot on him, but some on the coaches too.
4. I thought Moyer would help us a little more. He looked very out of shape at the beginning of the year so they redshirted him. Good decision by the coaches.
5. PC. Again, I was expecting more. JB was high on his potential to be a defensive stopper and we know that when we have a legit rim protector in the middle of the zone, it is like rocket fuel for the defense. PC was apparently playing with vision problems from a very early point in the season and then got to a point of being blind in one eye so he was shut down. This one isn't on the coaches, just bad luck. I think he'll be a force in the future, but clearly he was supposed to be a part of this year's team.

On the plus side
6. Gillon. Has lived up to every bit of what we hoped he would be, but only after about 15 games into the season. That early part of the season is what will keep us out of the tourney.
7. White. I feel he has been solid the entire year and has improved throughout. Can't argue with him (or Gillon) as key pick ups in the offseason.
8. TT. The guy is going to be an all time great if he stays here. He has taken a long time to pick up the defense, but his offense is spectacular.
9. TL. Basically he's been good to excellent for most of the year, no complaints.
10. TB. He has been coming on strong (until he got sick), but was hampered by the foot earlier. He was a one dimensional player at the beginning which really limited our offense when combined with a still figuring it out Gillon and a more on dimensional White who hadn't expanded his game yet. Again - this was a key factor in our early season woes. Overall he is a big win and if he stays will be a stud.

Curious, what did you see from Howard last year that would make him all ACC this year? That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard around here.
 
Curious, what did you see from Howard last year that would make him all ACC this year? That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard around here.

He was excellent in the his short stints last year. He was an important part of our tournament run and did well against good teams. He had nice vision and a knack for superior passing. Go back and watch him from last year. He was weak shooting the ball but everything else was very good and showed every reason to expect a big jump. As for being an 2nd team all conference type guy, when you look at what his usage rate would have been and the talent around him, it was possible. He's a burned out hulk of what he was last year at this point.
 
This years team has been a Giant disappointment, we should not have 11 losses right now.
Even if we had won against UConn and St. John's this team would still be very likely to end up with double digit regular season loses. That's bad for this program.
 
He was excellent in the his short stints last year. He was an important part of our tournament run and did well against good teams. He had nice vision and a knack for superior passing. Go back and watch him from last year. He was weak shooting the ball but everything else was very good and showed every reason to expect a big jump. As for being an 2nd team all conference type guy, when you look at what his usage rate would have been and the talent around him, it was possible. He's a burned out hulk of what he was last year at this point.

I just must have seen something completely different. I saw a freshman who couldn't shoot at all and had a average or below A/T ratio.
 
Very good point - For a long time, we were known as a team with great regular seasons and disappointment in the tourney.
I think the word "great" is used too interchangeably. Define a great regular season. 2009-10 and 2011-12 meet that benchmark. You can make an argument that 1988-89 is up there as well given the strength of the conference in that era. And there's the 23-4 regular season the year we won the title, but that team lost to Rutgers so I think that's an automatic disqualification.

But that's it. 3 or 4 great regular seasons out of 40+. Plenty of good or very good seasons throughout, but we've only had a rare taste of what it's like to truly dominate wire-to-wire.
 
I think the word "great" is used too interchangeably. Define a great regular season. 2009-10 and 2011-12 meet that benchmark. You can make an argument that 1988-89 is up there as well given the strength of the conference in that era. And there's the 23-4 regular season the year we won the title, but that team lost to Rutgers so I think that's an automatic disqualification.

But that's it. 3 or 4 great regular seasons out of 40+. Plenty of good or very good seasons throughout, but we've only had a rare taste of what it's like to truly dominate wire-to-wire.

We won the big east and it wasn't a great regular season?!?!? Wow. That's some standards there.
 
I think the word "great" is used too interchangeably. Define a great regular season. 2009-10 and 2011-12 meet that benchmark. You can make an argument that 1988-89 is up there as well given the strength of the conference in that era. And there's the 23-4 regular season the year we won the title, but that team lost to Rutgers so I think that's an automatic disqualification.

But that's it. 3 or 4 great regular seasons out of 40+. Plenty of good or very good seasons throughout, but we've only had a rare taste of what it's like to truly dominate wire-to-wire.


I think you are correct. But we also have to be careful how we define ourselves when doing it by the absence of those wire to wire dominant seasons, after all how many programs are there out there that truly throw those together and do so in one of the top conferences. Our perception of others success may be different than reality.

Kansas seems to do it year in and year out.

Does Kentucky qualify? In the last 10 years, they've won the regular season SEC title just 4 times and, it is only the SEC after all. Typically a couple of really strong teams, but a lot of cake walks to go along with the frosting.

Duke hasn't won an ACC regular season championship since 2010. Can you be wire to wire dominant and not win your conference title?
 

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