8th in the country in D

[Rocco]

So we're only giving up 58.16 points/game, which ranks 8th in the land. For some of the quality teams that we've suffocated so far, that is an incredible stat. I can't remember the last time this number was that low, but JB has yet another dominant 2-3 zone... arguably his best? These last 3-4 years or so have been great defensively.

Also, 6th in steals per game (9.6), 5th in turnover margin (+6.1) and 42nd in rebounding margin (+5.6).

This zone is capable of helping this team win it all.

 

[Coach Orange]

So we're only giving up 58.16 points/game, which ranks 8th in the land. For some of the quality teams that we've suffocated so far, that is an incredible stat. I can't remember the last time this number was that low, but JB has yet another dominant 2-3 zone... arguably his best? These last 3-4 years or so have been great defensively.

Also, 6th in steals per game (9.6), 5th in turnover margin (+6.1) and 42nd in rebounding margin (+5.6).

This zone is capable of helping this team win it all.

To reinforce your point, Rocco, the team is allowing a paltry 50.8 ppg in ACC play--its defense has improved in conference tilts. Perhaps that is a function of whom we have played to this point. Nevertheless, that is a recipe for winning a lot of games in March.

What's the old saying? "To win, all you have to do is score more than the opponent." That's easier to do when holding teams to such a low offensive output.

 

[jdubs30]

Hard to believe that we lost arguably the best player at the top of the zone JB has ever had AND a 4 year senior starter at the top and the D is better than last year.

 

[Knicks411]

Let's also not forget to include how slow all of the ACC Games have been. It's ridiculous. Fastest league game this year has been 60 possessions, which is really slow. The defense has still been really good in league games, but it's easier to put up impressive points allowed figures when there are so few possessions.
17th in defensive efficiency this year, 8th last year. So we have a little ways to go to get to last year.

 

[AZOrange]

The D got really good really fast

 

[OrangeYaGladi]

Yes points per possession is really the more important indicator of this team's defense.

 

[longislandcuse]

Someone call up the t-shirt makers. There is gold to be struck here.

 

[longislandcuse]

The D got really good really fast

That's what happens. We practice on those hood rat teams so when the time comes for that dime piece, the D is on point.

 

[Coach Orange]

Let's also not forget to include how slow all of the ACC Games have been. It's ridiculous. Fastest league game this year has been 60 possessions, which is really slow. The defense has still been really good in league games, but it's easier to put up impressive points allowed figures when there are so few possessions.
17th in defensive efficiency this year, 8th last year. So we have a little ways to go to get to last year.

Not that I'm arguing against your point, Knicks--just playing Devil's advocate--the question I would ask is about causation. Is our defense a part of causing the slower tempo? Is the fact that we aren't "running and gunning" on offense as much this year a factor in the lower possessions per game? Are other ACC games as "slow" as ours and, if not, what does that say about our defense and our strategy this season?

The statistic in-and-of itself doesn't tell me anything. The results, however, do.

 

[Cowtown]

Not that I'm arguing against your point, Knicks. Just playing Devil's advocate--the question I would ask is about causation. Is our defense a part of causing the slower tempo? Is the fact that we aren't "running and gunning" on offense as much this year a factor in the lower possessions per game? Are other ACC games as "slow" as ours and, if not, what does that say about our defense and our strategy this season?

The statistic in-and-of itself doesn't tell me anything. The results, however, do.

Precisely. SU has played (at least in the 4 games I've seen) a much more deliberate style of play, using much more of the shot clock than previous teams. Moreover, the turnovers seem to come from the interior of the defense rather than at the perimeter, which necessarily means fewer fast-break opportunities per t/o.

 

[Cowtown]

The D got really good really fast

Watch the interior of the defense rather than the perimeter, and see how it moves. The two on the baseline, Grant and Fair, are much faster, smarter, and have better hands on D than any pair I can recall.

 

[Knicks411]

Not that I'm arguing against your point, Knicks--just playing Devil's advocate--the question I would ask is about causation. Is our defense a part of causing the slower tempo? Is the fact that we aren't "running and gunning" on offense as much this year a factor in the lower possessions per game? Are other ACC games as "slow" as ours and, if not, what does that say about our defense and our strategy this season?

The statistic in-and-of itself doesn't tell me anything. The results, however, do.

I get the point; you can play better defense, make teams work harder for shots, and therefore using more clock, bringing possessions down. My response would be two fold
1) The ACC has been one of the slowest conferences in the country this year. 6 of the 15 teams are ranked 300 or worse in possessions per game. (Well i cheated Pitt is 297th, but whatever)
2) To me, it still comes down to points per possession, because the point of the game is to outscore the other team. So a lot of games, maybe we have slowed the other team down. (I'd also argue a lot of times teams are going out of their way to slow the game down against us, but I get your point). Well that means the number of possessions we have on offense to score more than the other team is limited as well. To me, allowing 70 points on 75 possessions is better than allowing 54 points on 54 possessions (what we did yesterday) because I'd rather have 75 possessions to score 71 points than 54 to score 55.

And I'm not knocking our defense, we're second in the league in ACC play in points per possession. But the slow pace of games has definitely played a role in the low number of points allowed.

 

[jncuse]

Not that I'm arguing against your point, Knicks--just playing Devil's advocate--the question I would ask is about causation. Is our defense a part of causing the slower tempo? Is the fact that we aren't "running and gunning" on offense as much this year a factor in the lower possessions per game? Are other ACC games as "slow" as ours and, if not, what does that say about our defense and our strategy this season?

The statistic in-and-of itself doesn't tell me anything. The results, however, do.

We play a really slow pace on offence, and teams try to slow it down. Syracuse is as big a factor as its opponents in the low possession games. With Ennis we are great at this pace

With regards to the efficiency (which is clearly a better stat than gross points), our ranking was 28th at some point before the ACC season. I remember comparing the 2013 and 2014 teams, and the 28th sticks out in my mind. So it has really improved in ACC play, and its not all about pace.

 

[Coach Orange]

I get the point; you can play better defense, make teams work harder for shots, and therefore using more clock, bringing possessions down. My response would be two fold
1) The ACC has been one of the slowest conferences in the country this year. 6 of the 15 teams are ranked 300 or worse in possessions per game. (Well i cheated Pitt is 297th, but whatever)
2) To me, it still comes down to points per possession, because the point of the game is to outscore the other team. So a lot of games, maybe we have slowed the other team down. (I'd also argue a lot of times teams are going out of their way to slow the game down against us, but I get your point). Well that means the number of possessions we have on offense to score more than the other team is limited as well. To me, allowing 70 points on 75 possessions is better than allowing 54 points on 54 possessions (what we did yesterday) because I'd rather have 75 possessions to score 71 points than 54 to score 55.

And I'm not knocking our defense, we're second in the league in ACC play in points per possession. But the slow pace of games has definitely played a role in the low number of points allowed.

I think you nailed it here--the point is to outscore the opponent, no matter how you do it. I guess the coach in me argues I don't care if it it takes 75 possessions or 54--just outscore the opponent in those possessions. Logically, it seems easier to outscore a team that produces 50.8 ppg than one that scores 70 ppg.

I would agree completely with you that teams have slowed the pace against us--High Point and St. Francis did for sure, as did Miami. To support your point, I would argue that Coach B tried to speed those teams up by pressing. Even then, though, it was an attempt to control the game through defense. Ultimately, this team seems to play at the speed they need to in order to win, which is all any fan (or coach) can ask for, right?

 

[Rocco]

I think you nailed it here--the point is to outscore the opponent, no matter how you do it. I guess the coach in me argues I don't care if it it takes 75 possessions or 54

Exactly. That's the beauty of Ennis this year. He plays at his pace and never seems to be hurried. He has a quick step on a drive if he needs to, while he can also run the point during stall ball. It's really impressive what he's done at the 1 this year.

 

[Knicks411]

I think you nailed it here--the point is to outscore the opponent, no matter how you do it. I guess the coach in me argues I don't care if it it takes 75 possessions or 54--just outscore the opponent in those possessions.

Hey I don't care either. (Well to be honest, I would rather watch a game in the 70's than the 50's but whatever)

 

[Cuse315Pat]

I think you nailed it here--the point is to outscore the opponent, no matter how you do it. I guess the coach in me argues I don't care if it it takes 75 possessions or 54--just outscore the opponent in those possessions. Logically, it seems easier to outscore a team that produces 50.8 ppg than one that scores 70 ppg.

I would agree completely with you that teams have slowed the pace against us--High Point and St. Francis did for sure, as did Miami. To support your point, I would argue that Coach B tried to speed those teams up by pressing. Even then, though, it was an attempt to control the game through defense. Ultimately, this team seems to play at the speed they need to in order to win, which is all any fan (or coach) can ask for, right?

Yeah I can understand all the stats and rankings and how they show each team winning by such margins and all. But what it all comes down to is winning. It doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 20 in the tournament, the point is to advance. That's why I'm just happy to see us go 8-0 against current tournament teams. Great start. And all these close games are only going to give us more experience down the road. We know Ennis isn't going to shy away in the final minutes. And we are holding tough on defense

 

[Coach Orange]

Yeah I can understand all the stats and rankings and how they show each team winning by such margins and all. But what it all comes down to is winning. It doesn't matter if you win by 1 or 20 in the tournament, the point is to advance. That's why I'm just happy to see us go 8-0 against current tournament teams. Great start. And all these close games are only going to give us more experience down the road. We know Ennis isn't going to shy away in the final minutes. And we are holding tough on defense

Imagine where the defense will be when Rak more consistently defends the high post/free throw line area in the zone…and he will…

 

[Cuse315Pat]

Imagine where the defense will be when Rak more consistently defends the high post/free throw line area in the zone…and he will…

When Rak gets that down, we are gonna be real tough. I've been waiting for him to get to that free throw line more often to defend those jumpers. Ever since that 350lb dude from Marquette started torching us from that spot I've been hoping Rak would close out better. Pitt hit a bunch of shots from that spot early in the game yesterday.

 

[Coach Orange]

Interestingly, Rak will probably get more rebounds when he slides up to defend that spot. He won't be buried under the hoop as easily, but rather will have a better rebounding angle to go get the ball, while also having inside position on the player he's defending.

 

[Cuse315Pat]

Interestingly, Rak will probably get more rebounds when he slides up to defend that spot. He won't be buried under the hoop as easily, but rather will have a better rebounding angle to go get the ball, while also having inside position on the player he's defending.

That's what I've been thinking. Unless of course he's the only one in the lane for us with our forwards on the wings and guards at the top of the key. Although Rak would have a better line at the basket to get those short rebounds, opponent's could simply overload the zone and just jump in 3 deep for those Offensive boards. It's really got to be a team effort on them rebounds, which we did not see yesterday. Clearly JB was not happy about this.

 

[Rocco]

Cooney has also been fantastic at the top of the zone. He's extremely active, shifting constantly, arms waving around tipping passes, extending the zone against some of the better shooters and clouding an open shot. I was worried about him coming into this season, but you can see he slendered down slightly, toned up and clearly worked on his conditioning. The kid has been a real positive on both ends of the court.

 

[Orangeyes]

So we're only giving up 58.16 points/game, which ranks 8th in the land. For some of the quality teams that we've suffocated so far, that is an incredible stat. I can't remember the last time this number was that low, but JB has yet another dominant 2-3 zone... arguably his best? These last 3-4 years or so have been great defensively.

Also, 6th in steals per game (9.6), 5th in turnover margin (+6.1) and 42nd in rebounding margin (+5.6).

This zone is capable of helping this team win it all.

How long before the NCAA bans our zone in an effort to get scoring up?

 

[Rocco]

How long before the NCAA bans our zone in an effort to get scoring up?

After we win this year's title.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Hey I don't care either. (Well to be honest, I would rather watch a game in the 70's than the 50's but whatever)

The thing about games played at "our pace" this year is that once there is a 3 possession difference, it seems like a mountain to climb. We are the ultimate grind it out team this year.