A Comment on Point Guards

[djcon57]

Yep…here’s a thread that didn’t age well for all of us who contributed…

We're only 5 mins into 1st EX game, and I already love Carlos

A true point guard who defends. Finally.

syracusefan.com

One person itt was correct. You have him blocked I believe

We're only 5 mins into 1st EX game, and I already love Carlos

A true point guard who defends. Finally.

syracusefan.com

 

[Marroniac]

Yep…here’s a thread that didn’t age well for all of us who contributed…

We're only 5 mins into 1st EX game, and I already love Carlos

A true point guard who defends. Finally.

syracusefan.com

Red reads that thread every night before he goes to sleep.

 

[djcon57]

Yep he did pump the brakes during the off season. He also really liked what he saw of Carlos preseason…like we all did. I mean he didn’t call him a poor man’s Pearl, but I don’t think he was exactly sounding an alarm bell.

https://syracusefan.com/threads/clarion-gameday.184974/page-3

I said I wanted to see more of him

I.E. against a non D2 team

And

We have needed a player like him.

We do. We still do.

I take back nothing I said there.


Also. I was sounding the alarm on his defensive numbers all offseason and you were mocking me.
Receipts

Class of 2021 - PG Jaquan Carlos (NY) TRANSFERING TO SYRACUSE (4/24/24)

Am waiting for Leffew's decision before I judge this...

syracusefan.com

 

[grepal]

Ok, I should have said “most”. I did not have an opinion. I was wait and see too. PG is like QB. Need a good one. I maintain if we had a Kadary, we are a tournament team.

I was just noting how evaluations can be deceiving for coaches and fans.

Yes, Kadary would be huge for SU, for that matter Mintz would be a huge upgrade talent wise. Doesn't matter, they are not here. I think we may wind up with JJ and Moore the starting guards if JJ comes back soon. We can all hope Chance can take over.

 

[MikeSU02]

One person itt was correct. You have him blocked I believe

We're only 5 mins into 1st EX game, and I already love Carlos

A true point guard who defends. Finally.

syracusefan.com

Lmaoooooo

Same dude that rocked me for “data”

A joke.

 

[Jake]

I said I wanted to see more of him

I.E. against a non D2 team

And

We have needed a player like him.

We do. We still do.

I take back nothing I said there.

I said I wanted to see more of him

I.E. against a non D2 team

And

We have needed a player like him.

We do. We still do.

I take back nothing I said there.


Also. I was sounding the alarm on his defensive numbers all offseason and you were mocking me.
Receipts

Class of 2021 - PG Jaquan Carlos (NY) TRANSFERING TO SYRACUSE (4/24/24)

Am waiting for Leffew's decision before I judge this...

syracusefan.com

Touche’. I’m not a big stats guy. I’ll never be. Too many people twist them and don’t take circumstances into play.

 

[djcon57]

Touche’. I’m not a big stats guy. I’ll never be. Too many people twist them and don’t take circumstances into play.

That’s fine. The point remains in regards to mid majors transfers. I haven’t seen one mid major with bad metrics translate to a P5. His numbers at Hofstra were crap. Despite being an all CAA defender, it didn’t translate at this level at all.

 

[Jake]

That’s fine. The point remains in regards to mid majors transfers. I haven’t seen one mid major with bad metrics translate to a P5. His numbers at Hofstra were crap. Despite being an all CAA defender, it didn’t translate at this level at all.

Fair. At the end of the day we’re stuck with a bad point guard and the most disturbing part is it appears to be a huge misstep by Red, being compounded by a refusal to dial him back (especially pre JJ injury). He’s kind left without an option now.

I’ve said consistently that I’ll support the coaches until proven otherwise. They simply have access to more info than we do. I thought Red was solid last year. But this has been a really bad few weeks for him.

This off season / season appears to have been a disaster at PG evaluation. I’m hoping Alex Kline can help with personnel decisions going forward.

I’ll support a third year, but there has to be significant improvement. 3 year and no tournament means it’s over.

At the end of the day we all want the same result…wins.

 

[JonB]

It's the way we lost. JJ's replacement replaced his production. Now I would love to see the two of them together, but Red has been hesitant to do that. We still missed a boatload of free throws, we played zero defense, and we got crushed on the glass. The team showed absolutely zero fight. There's no harm in losing, but we had guys pouting from the onset. It's been a problem since Red took over. It was very reminiscent of getting absolutely throttled last year at Duke, at UNC, at Wake, at UVA, against Gonzaga and Tennessee in November. We have consistently let teams steamroll us and just given up.

Statistics disagree, if you think that a point guards job is to control the play and set guys up. Career stats for assists/turnovers are as follows: Taylor 72 assists/66 tos, Cuffe 16 assists/17 tos, Starling 110 assists/112 turnovers, Carlos 422 assist/172 tos. Moore has never played point in hs. Don’t let your frustration with Carlos lead you to think just anyone can be a successful point.

It’s pretty clear on paper that Carlos was the solution to an offensive problem. In reality he has not worked out. The staff probably thought they were getting a bargain by getting this guy who was the 50th ranked portal point guard. Part of scouting in the portal is definitely gonna be picking out diamonds in the rough. It’s hard to know what these guys are going through as well, he could be hurt in some kind of way and isn’t talking about it from watching the games on television it doesn’t look like he can really get by anybody and that was the problem that Frank Howard had in 2016/17 when he was coming off that injury and eventually lost his starting position(deservedly so) to John G. The only potential solution to the problem is to get Westry up to speed and then put Elijah Moore as the two. We all know it.

 

[RF2044]

Yep…here’s a thread that didn’t age well for all of us who contributed…

We're only 5 mins into 1st EX game, and I already love Carlos

A true point guard who defends. Finally.

syracusefan.com

Yeah, that performance was fools gold, for sure. He shot 75% from the floor, and had 10 assists to no turnovers -- so no wonder people got excited.

The drop off has been... steep.

 

[Jake]

Yeah, that performance was fools gold, for sure. He shot 75% from the floor, and had 10 assists to no turnovers -- so no wonder people got excited.

The drop off has been... steep.

Yep…15 minutes into the LeMoyne game they were running clear outs for their point guard and we couldn’t get a stop.

 

[kcsu]

Touche’. I’m not a big stats guy. I’ll never be. Too many people twist them and don’t take circumstances into play.

Agreed. I appreciate Bees and others posting stats, but they can be misleading. Stats are great when taken as part of the evaluation. Also, I still don't understand how these evaluations are done considering all of the games and plays in each game.

 

[CuseCPT]

Sometimes this board is like a live-action internet version of the beginning of Moneyball. Get out of here with your metrics, he has any ugly girlfriend, that shows he lacks confidence!

 

[ar inj]

Yep…15 minutes into the LeMoyne game they were running clear outs for their point guard and we couldn’t get a stop.

Sitting court side, it was more like 6 minutes and with both of the starting guards.

 

[SWC75]

From Reds mouth last night (because of an injury to JJ) - “Carlos is our only ball handler” …
Hmmm sounds like terrible roster construction to me .

UConn also has Diarra who is a very solid PG as their 6th man and they signed a 4/5star PG from Philly who’s starting to play more now since Mahoney has struggled.

Hurley did not go “all in” on Mahoney and has 2 other PGs on the roster who are capable.

Mahoney minutes have gone way down since the Memphis game. Hurley realized his mistake.

Red is doubling down on Carlos then saying we lack ball handlers


It’s a terrible look

Westry got sick and Starling got hut. They were part of the original roster construction.

 

[cuseincincy]

Yeah, that performance was fools gold, for sure. He shot 75% from the floor, and had 10 assists to no turnovers -- so no wonder people got excited.

The drop off has been... steep.

I think it was the fact that we had not seen a PG drive to the hoop and pass it for a few years that got many of us excited that game (myself included).
For a school with a long and deep tradition of PG's the past 10 years has been a wasteland. Judah, I believe, could have broken that string but for whatever reason he chose not to be a distributor so I can't count him as a top quality PG in my opinion. Here are what I consider to be the only "true" point guards SU has had since 2014 when Tyler Ennis left:

Kaleb Joseph
John Gillon
Howard Washington
Jalen Carey
Kadary Richmond

Guys we played at PG include:
Michael Gbinije
Frank Howard
Tyus Battle
Joe Girard
Judah Mintz

We got one decent year from that top group from Gillon. The bottom group rarely left the floor and were all good to very good players in my opinion. But none were distributing "true" point guards. If I had to pick a player from those lists that Carlos most reminds me of it would be Howard Washington. Nice kid, PG skills, just not at this level.

 

[GHLF]

From Reds mouth last night (because of an injury to JJ) - “Carlos is our only ball handler” …
Hmmm sounds like terrible roster construction to me .

UConn also has Diarra who is a very solid PG as their 6th man and they signed a 4/5star PG from Philly who’s starting to play more now since Mahoney has struggled.

Hurley did not go “all in” on Mahoney and has 2 other PGs on the roster who are capable.

Mahoney minutes have gone way down since the Memphis game. Hurley realized his mistake.

Red is doubling down on Carlos then saying we lack ball handlers


It’s a terrible look

Disagree, with JJ out who is going to start???

 

[GHLF]

From Reds mouth last night (because of an injury to JJ) - “Carlos is our only ball handler” …
Hmmm sounds like terrible roster construction to me .

UConn also has Diarra who is a very solid PG as their 6th man and they signed a 4/5star PG from Philly who’s starting to play more now since Mahoney has struggled.

Hurley did not go “all in” on Mahoney and has 2 other PGs on the roster who are capable.

Mahoney minutes have gone way down since the Memphis game. Hurley realized his mistake.

Red is doubling down on Carlos then saying we lack ball handlers


It’s a terrible look

We also completely missed on PG1, He knew who he wanted and we did not get him, DL. You think that might be a factor. Haters most certainly gonna hate, at least have some knowledge

2024-25 season stats​

• PTS
  13.3
  150+
• REB
  2.3
  150+
• AST
  3.0
  150+
• FG%
  46.6

 

[djcon57]

We also completely missed on PG1... Haters most certainly gonna hate

Some of you guys use words that basically you don't know what they mean.

"Haters" don't hate irrelevant things/people or things that aren't successful.

Like if someone called Fran Brown overrated. That person would be a hater.

Suggesting we don't have a good point guard isn't "hating". It's accepting reality and stating truth.

 

[GHLF]

Some of you guys use words that basically you don't know what they mean.

"Haters" don't hate irrelevant things/people or things that aren't successful.

Like if someone called Fran Brown overrated. That person would be a hater.

Suggesting we don't have a good point guard isn't "hating". It's accepting reality and stating truth.

Apologize for any miscommunication, as that is not what I meant. We do not have a point guard for many reasons. #1 our primary point guard target in the off season committed to Georgia. #2 any potential leftovers from last season transfered including QC... #3 Our current point guard has not played up to projection, remember he was supposed to be a backup. #4 The obvious choice and current replacement JJ just broke his hand; whether Red was going to have JJ play the 1 and Choppa at the 2 was yet to be determined; that certainly was indicated, and if Red did not, he certainly could be blamed for that. Even more so than CJB refusing to start Kadary over JG because Buddy was not going to move to the 3... And by the way, it is my opinion, just my opinion by the way that we are in this mess because of the transition, attributable to one person primarily. I pray coach Red, stabilizes the ship and learns tremendously from this situation. It is blatantly obvious to me. We, do not have high-level At This Point. I think we are recruiting quite well. Last year's squad was much more talented than this one. I stated that this was a long time ago.

 

[JaySU22]

It’s pretty clear on paper that Carlos was the solution to an offensive problem. In reality he has not worked out. The staff probably thought they were getting a bargain by getting this guy who was the 50th ranked portal point guard. Part of scouting in the portal is definitely gonna be picking out diamonds in the rough. It’s hard to know what these guys are going through as well, he could be hurt in some kind of way and isn’t talking about it from watching the games on television it doesn’t look like he can really get by anybody and that was the problem that Frank Howard had in 2016/17 when he was coming off that injury and eventually lost his starting position(deservedly so) to John G. The only potential solution to the problem is to get Westry up to speed and then put Elijah Moore as the two. We all know it.

Yeah, I am pretty stunned how bad the Carlos pickup has worked out.

I think I can understand the offensive fit of a pass first pg with JJ/Bell/Freeman/Lampkin. That’s 4 guys I would expect to be in the 12-15ppg range, with the PG feeding them.

Also a good player in the Colonial can typically be a contributing player in a higher level. And the posters raging on here about his games vs the cupcakes make no sense because those opponents were on par or worse than he played against at Hofstra and was productive.

Maybe it is injury and/or a confidence issue with him getting casted for a bigger role than he should have gotten here.

Also if he had really bad defensive metrics at Hofstra I really question what we’re actually doing with analytics. We like to say we’re using them but the style of ball isn’t analytically inclined at all.