A couple of interesting stats after 9 games

[malpearl31]

Through 9 games - 5 of which have been against Power 5 schools - I noticed a couple of interesting stats for this year's squad compared to the last couple of years (all stats courtesy of KenPom):

• Assists per FG Made - currently, SU is 2nd in the country (!) with 70.4% of our made baskets coming directly from an assist. Last year, only 50.5% of our baskets were assisted (223rd in the country). The year before that, only 47.5% of our baskets came with an assist (289th in the country).
• Average Offensive Possession Length - currently, SU is averaging 16.5 seconds per possession (97th fastest in D1). Last year's team averaged 17.8 seconds per offensive possession (206th fastest), and the year before that SU averaged 19.6 seconds per offensive possession (341st fastest, or tied for 10th-worst, take your pick).

In the 2 years since I joined this board, I've seen a lot of posts complaining about our offensive style. The stats say that we're playing faster and we're sharing the ball better. Do JB and the staff get any credit for the team playing a more aesthetically pleasing style of basketball, even though we sit at 5-4 thru 9 games? Or would folks welcome a return to slower, more iso-heavy attack, if that translated into 2 more Ws?

 

[Knicks411]

Through 9 games - 5 of which have been against Power 5 schools - I noticed a couple of interesting stats for this year's squad compared to the last couple of years (all stats courtesy of KenPom):

• Assists per FG Made - currently, SU is 2nd in the country (!) with 70.4% of our made baskets coming directly from an assist. Last year, only 50.5% of our baskets were assisted (223rd in the country). The year before that, only 47.5% of our baskets came with an assist (289th in the country).
• Average Offensive Possession Length - currently, SU is averaging 16.5 seconds per possession (97th fastest in D1). Last year's team averaged 17.8 seconds per offensive possession (206th fastest), and the year before that SU averaged 19.6 seconds per offensive possession (341st fastest, or tied for 10th-worst, take your pick).

In the 2 years since I joined this board, I've seen a lot of posts complaining about our offensive style. The stats say that we're playing faster and we're sharing the ball better. Do JB and the staff get any credit for the team playing a more aesthetically pleasing style of basketball, even though we sit at 5-4 thru 9 games? Or would folks welcome a return to slower, more iso-heavy attack, if that translated into 2 more Ws?

Certainly, all those stats will look a little better the day after you nearly score 100 points.

I agree with you on bullet point two, but the interesting thing about the asisst% is I know it's always considered the higher the better, and to an extent it's probably true, but I also think if you're assist % is too high it might just mean you don't have anyone who can create their own shot.

For instance, we're still 75th in overall in offense. Compared to 30 last year. (and 135 the year before. yikes)

 

[malpearl31]

we're still 75th in overall in offense. Compared to 30 last year. (and 135 the year before. yikes)

I think you misread last year's numbers - we were 30th in defense last year, but only 59th in offense. (And that 135 ranking from 2 years ago is the lowest we've ranked going all the way back through 2002 - yikes, indeed!)

So our ranking of 75th through 9 games isn't terribly far from where we ended up last year.

 

[Knicks411]

I think you misread last year's numbers - we were 30th in defense last year, but only 59th in offense. (And that 135 ranking from 2 years ago is the lowest we've ranked going all the way back through 2002 - yikes, indeed!)

So our ranking of 75th through 9 games isn't terribly far from where we ended up last year.

I did! 30 seemed high!!

I do find it a little funny that we were 30 in 2017 (for real, I triple checked and everything) and that year we didn't make the tournament. Obviously offense is only one side of the ball.

 

[OrangeDW]

The style of play is an improvement. Now, through both development/retaining players, and recruiting...we need to get better players playing this style of ball.

 

[rrlbees]

Through 9 games - 5 of which have been against Power 5 schools - I noticed a couple of interesting stats for this year's squad compared to the last couple of years (all stats courtesy of KenPom):

• Assists per FG Made - currently, SU is 2nd in the country (!) with 70.4% of our made baskets coming directly from an assist. Last year, only 50.5% of our baskets were assisted (223rd in the country). The year before that, only 47.5% of our baskets came with an assist (289th in the country).
• Average Offensive Possession Length - currently, SU is averaging 16.5 seconds per possession (97th fastest in D1). Last year's team averaged 17.8 seconds per offensive possession (206th fastest), and the year before that SU averaged 19.6 seconds per offensive possession (341st fastest, or tied for 10th-worst, take your pick).

In the 2 years since I joined this board, I've seen a lot of posts complaining about our offensive style. The stats say that we're playing faster and we're sharing the ball better. Do JB and the staff get any credit for the team playing a more aesthetically pleasing style of basketball, even though we sit at 5-4 thru 9 games? Or would folks welcome a return to slower, more iso-heavy attack, if that translated into 2 more Ws?

If I heard right in the radio yesterday, we are also first on the country in percentage of shots that are 3 pointers. That being 47%. If true, along with your assists stat, tells me what I’ve said in past years, players hitting 3’s is a pg’s best friend. Not taking away from any of our guards and their assist numbers, but it helps those numbers when you pass it to a wing and they make a deep 3. Those are the easier assists compared to penetrating and kicking it out, or penetrating and making an inside pass to a big or hitting a cutter to the basket for a layup/dunk.

 

[jdubs30]

If I heard right in the radio yesterday, we are also first on the country in percentage of shots that are 3 pointers. That being 47%. If true, along with your assists stat, tells me what I’ve said in past years, players hitting 3’s is a pg’s best friend. Not taking away from any of our guards and their assist numbers, but it helps those numbers when you pass it to a wing and they make a deep 3. Those are the easier assists compared to penetrating and kicking it out, or penetrating and making an inside pass to a big or hitting a cutter to the basket for a layup/dunk.

According to KenPom were 22nd in the country, but the 47% is correct

 

[007]

If I heard right in the radio yesterday, we are also first on the country in percentage of shots that are 3 pointers. That being 47%. If true, along with your assists stat, tells me what I’ve said in past years, players hitting 3’s is a pg’s best friend. Not taking away from any of our guards and their assist numbers, but it helps those numbers when you pass it to a wing and they make a deep 3. Those are the easier assists compared to penetrating and kicking it out, or penetrating and making an inside pass to a big or hitting a cutter to the basket for a layup/dunk.

Good post. When this team plays well, I suspect that the trend will be shooting a high 3pt % and a large number of assists on those makes.

 

[rrlbees]

According to KenPom were 22nd in the country, but the 47% is correct

Yea, I wasn’t sure if I heard it correctly. Maybe they said in the ACC. Still that’s a high percentage.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If I heard right in the radio yesterday, we are also first on the country in percentage of shots that are 3 pointers. That being 47%. If true, along with your assists stat, tells me what I’ve said in past years, players hitting 3’s is a pg’s best friend. Not taking away from any of our guards and their assist numbers, but it helps those numbers when you pass it to a wing and they make a deep 3. Those are the easier assists compared to penetrating and kicking it out, or penetrating and making an inside pass to a big or hitting a cutter to the basket for a layup/dunk.

Come on, don't Boeheim us. There's a big difference between just throwing it around the perimeter, and creating an open look from 3. Washington moves the ball quicker. He makes quicker decisions. It was not just luck that he had 8 assists last game.

 

[rrlbees]

Come on, don't Boeheim us. There's a big difference between just throwing it around the perimeter, and creating an open look from 3. Washington moves the ball quicker. He makes quicker decisions. It was not just luck that he had 8 assists last game.

not boeheiming anyone. Just stating simple facts about any pg and not taking anything away from Washington. You could watch our game yesterday for proof.

 

[rrlbees]

Come on, don't Boeheim us. There's a big difference between just throwing it around the perimeter, and creating an open look from 3. Washington moves the ball quicker. He makes quicker decisions. It was not just luck that he had 8 assists last game.

btw, my post has to do with our two stats of assisted baskets and the number of 3’s we take.

 

[skurey]

I'll take it but the sample size is small still.

 

[Knicks411]

Funny thing, I'm just looking at the KP stat page a little closer


We are 21st in the country in % of shots that are 3P, as stated, at 46.9%. Defensively, we have allowed the same % of FGA as 3, 46.9%, which is the fourth highest in the country.

The assist% is 70.4%, second, as stated. And defensively, we have allowed 69.1% of baskets to be attempted, which is second in the country.

No, I have no point

 

[billsin01]

I'll take it but the sample size is small still.

Agreed. We'll have to see how it plays out. What makes the numbers interesting is that we've played 5 games against legit competition -- UVA in the top 10, Oklahoma State and PSU receiving some votes in the poll and Iowa, which was supposed to be a top 25 team, took some lumps but does have a solid win over Texas Tech -- and two others against teams we struggled against at times last year (Colgate/Cornell).

So you could make a case that having better numbers through 9 means a little more than in years past. Anyway, generally, I agree. A bit early to get super excited about any statistics but hopefully the trend continues to play out with a bit more ball movement and passing. It can't be a bad thing moving forward.

 

[billsin01]

If I heard right in the radio yesterday, we are also first on the country in percentage of shots that are 3 pointers. That being 47%. If true, along with your assists stat, tells me what I’ve said in past years, players hitting 3’s is a pg’s best friend. Not taking away from any of our guards and their assist numbers, but it helps those numbers when you pass it to a wing and they make a deep 3. Those are the easier assists compared to penetrating and kicking it out, or penetrating and making an inside pass to a big or hitting a cutter to the basket for a layup/dunk.

No question this is true. Where I feel more comfortable saying we have better ball movement and pace is just in terms of the way we are playing. Looking to push when we can, looking to find others with the pass up the floor, looking to go inside-out when we can. There have been some nice developments here.

The question is whether or not we can battle enough with our bigs and beat enough people off the dribble (when we need to) to make it matter in terms of not only our record but our scoring average. That remains to be seen I guess, but it's the ugly takeaway of this early season stretch that outweighs the improved ball movement, unfortunately.

 

[NorSyr66]

I agree that 9 games is a rather small sample but the strength of the teams played in these first 9 games is greater than most other season starts. But we are starting to see some play that may help us over the long haul. The two pluses from Saturday is the improved flow of the team with Howard on the floor. It seems like plays develop a few seconds faster and his decisions are quick and accurate. Combine him with Dolezaj's ability to move the ball and more players seem to get involved. I think it will be good for JG3 to watch a bit more to see how plays develop and how players react under different situations. JG3's scoring will benefit us considerably down the line but he is only a freshman playing a different role than he played all through high school. The second plus is we need to see more of Edwards. He will make rookie mistakes but his size and offensive skills will again benefit us down the line. He has to get meaningful playing time.

 

[AZOrange]

Good post. When this team plays well, I suspect that the trend will be shooting a high 3pt % and a large number of assists on those makes.

Yeah this constant comp between last year and this year has everything to do with player styles on the court. If we don’t have a lot of assists we stunk bc we didn’t shoot well. If we do the we did shoot well. Last year was 100% diff with an iso driving team that could pound the ball and make shots. Literally zero guys on this team can do that

 

[SmilinBob]

This team has good shooters and if they continue to move with a purpose and rub off picks (correctly) and get open and a good PG will get them the ball when they are set and can get a clear look at the basket.

I assume opposing coaches know this team isn't really a drive to the hoop successfully type team so they will or should be overplaying the shooters to not give the PG a clear look thus what I wrote above as being prudent.

Add to this Sid, Marek and the Warrior have to hit the boards on O and give second open shots to the shooters. Being active constantly is the key to that. If these guys disappear, the shot attempts are not going to be nearly as open.

Girard will be a very good player and PG once he figures out not getting trapped in the paint and picking up his dribble thus forcing bedlam. My opinion is that he is used to driving and just going to the hoop looking to score and is over thinking it and stops thus getting into trouble. When he drives...is there an open shooter on the side and can he kick it out immediately once the D commits? Or to stop him, he then is able to drop it off to the teammate whom the D came off? This is what Carey struggled with as well.

 

[IthacaMatt]

This team has good shooters and if they continue to move with a purpose and rub off picks (correctly) and get open and a good PG will get them the ball when they are set and can get a clear look at the basket.

I assume opposing coaches know this team isn't really a drive to the hoop successfully type team so they will or should be overplaying the shooters to not give the PG a clear look thus what I wrote above as being prudent.

Add to this Sid, Marek and the Warrior have to hit the boards on O and give second open shots to the shooters. Being active constantly is the key to that. If these guys disappear, the shot attempts are not going to be nearly as open.

Girard will be a very good player and PG once he figures out not getting trapped in the paint and picking up his dribble thus forcing bedlam. My opinion is that he is used to driving and just going to the hoop looking to score and is over thinking it and stops thus getting into trouble. When he drives...is there an open shooter on the side and can he kick it out immediately once the D commits? Or to stop him, he then is able to drop it off to the teammate whom the D came off? This is what Carey struggled with as well.

Good post. I agree that since we are not a team with a guy or two who can reliably take anyone off the dribble, that movement is essential to open up good looks for our shooters. One thing I really like that I'm seeing this year is so many back cuts. That's another weapon to keep players from overplaying you at the 3 point line, much like a screen pass slows down a pass rush.

 

[Cappy3]

I think you misread last year's numbers - we were 30th in defense last year, but only 59th in offense. (And that 135 ranking from 2 years ago is the lowest we've ranked going all the way back through 2002 - yikes, indeed!)

So our ranking of 75th through 9 games isn't terribly far from where we ended up last year.

True, but last year’s numbers include the full slate of ACC games. This year, we’ve played two. Reasonable to think that a final number will go down, not up.

 

[Cusefan0307]

True, but last year’s numbers include the full slate of ACC games. This year, we’ve played two. Reasonable to think that a final number will go down, not up.

KP already adjusts for SOS.

 

[malpearl31]

True, but last year’s numbers include the full slate of ACC games. This year, we’ve played two. Reasonable to think that a final number will go down, not up.

Two ACC games, yes, but five games total (56%) against Power 5 teams (and it should be noted that Ok St, Penn St and Iowa currently have higher KenPom ratings than 10 of the 15 ACC teams). Our overall strength of schedule is currently 65th best in D-1, so I thought the early numbers were relevant.

In addition, 3 of our "fastest" games have been against Power 5/ACC foes - so I'm not automatically assuming that our tempo will decrease simply because we have 18 conference games left to play.

 

[Cappy3]

Two ACC games, yes, but five games total (56%) against Power 5 teams (and it should be noted that Ok St, Penn St and Iowa currently have higher KenPom ratings than 10 of the 15 ACC teams). Our overall strength of schedule is currently 65th best in D-1, so I thought the early numbers were relevant.

In addition, 3 of our "fastest" games have been against Power 5/ACC foes - so I'm not automatically assuming that our tempo will decrease simply because we have 18 conference games left to play.

Well, 56% is good. But last year’s final numbers were against more like 70% P5 teams. Apples to apples.

 

[malpearl31]

Well, 56% is good. But last year’s final numbers were against more like 70% P5 teams. Apples to apples.

Well, you got me there. 70% is indeed larger than 56%. Your math checks out.