A football post in honor of Spring Practice

[billsin01]

I'm telling you guys wait until you see Ashton B do his thing. It will be eye opening. Kinder too to a lesser extent.

Good hopefully he develops into a great QB ... and a wonderful human being.

 

[OrangePA]

Are we a cut above the rest of college athletics? eh, I'm not sure. What I do know is 95% of this board hates, abhors and curses any other program (duke, nd, etc) the audacity to make that very claim.

We aren't the SEC ... in any way, shape or form. That is absolutely accurate.

We disagree on a lot with this, largely due to my view on human nature/"character" (I still have no idea how this is defined)/giving at-risk kids a chance (I still say if you want to develop character you should be recruiting nothing but guys who need the most "character development)/and the general makeup of athletes (whom I covered at a newspaper for 8 years and interacted with personally -- lacrosse-wise -- for much of my life).

But at the end of the day I think we can agree on one thing -- whatever the rules, the human development programs, the GPA -- we need to win and if we don't it will be blamed on Marrone (fairly or unfairly). So in that sense you can view character development as extremely relevant and take great pride in it an alum, I can remain pessimistic about big-time athletics programs and not really worry about it, and it's all good. Winning -- the right way or the "wrong" way -- is how DM will be judged. Nature of the beast.

You should consider that this is not the Buffalo Bills. Though it appears to be professional football and to many it is professional football, it is not.

This is college athletics. As jaded as you may be, winning the right way is the way it has been done at SU and will continue to be done. Winning at all costs is not the goal and is not something that I want to see. To me that's like the Woody Allen line in Annie Hall about stand up comedy in front of pot smokers - the laughs don't count.

I really don't know what you mean when you refer to athletes in the way you do. I can tell you that the vast majority of the athletes I have had the chance to meet at various functions who played football at Syracuse University - including Chris Gedney, P.J. Alexander, Tim Ahern, Cliff Ensley, John Cherundolo and many others - are high quality people who clearly benefitted personally and professionally from their experience at the University.

I think playing for Marrone is the best experience a kid can have when preparing for life.

And, I am confident that the approach will result in wins - it already has.

 

[OrangePA]

I'm telling you guys wait until you see Ashton B do his thing. It will be eye opening. Kinder too to a lesser extent.

I hope you're right!!!!!

 

[billsin01]

You should consider that this is not the Buffalo Bills. Though it appears to be professional football and to many it is professional football, it is not.

This is college athletics. As jaded as you may be, winning the right way is the way it has been done at SU and will continue to be done. Winning at all costs is not the goal and is not something that I want to see. To me that's like the Woody Allen line in Annie Hall about stand up comedy in front of pot smokers - the laughs don't count.

I really don't know what you mean when you refer to athletes in the way you do. I can tell you that the vast majority of the athletes I have had the chance to meet at various functions who played football at Syracuse University - including Chris Gedney, P.J. Alexander, Tim Ahern, Cliff Ensley, John Cherundolo and many others - are high quality people who clearly benefitted personally and professionally from their experience at the University.

I think playing for Marrone is the best experience a kid can have when preparing for life.

And, I am confident that the approach will result in wins - it already has.

Wow, you're very tough to find middle ground with. You must be an excellent negotiator. I would also point out that the athletes they trot out at alumni events are the best and the brightest and, by the way, on their very best behavior. I have A TON of experiences to the contrary but won't list specific names -- almost exclusively lacrosse players, SU and many others -- because it's not particularly fair, I suppose.

Two points:

-- At no time did I suggest that Marrone should win at all costs. I said he will be judged by his win-loss record. Period. That's it. There may be a few like you who really value the human side of him, but it won't help him survive losing season after losing season.

-- Big-time college athletics are absolutely professional. Don't kid yourself. They are the primary focus for many of these guys, they work out in multimillion dollar facilities (SU needed the Melo Center? Really? They simply couldn't practice effectively in Manley? hmmm). This is a big business and it is loooooonnnngggg past the point of amateurism.

 

[Scooch]

I've always been confused with how SU fans seem to hold the football and basketball programs to such wildly different standards when it comes to "character".

We've won a TON of games in hoops over the years, and while I know some folks will jump down my throat for saying this, I don't think the general consensus is that we've ever made much effort at "developing men". Kids come to play hoops. If they get something beyond that then great. But they're here to play hoops.

Yet in football there seems to be this fetishization of discipline, character and mentorship.

Always been a strange dynamic to me.

 

[cusestudent]

I've always been confused with how SU fans seem to hold the football and basketball programs to such wildly different standards when it comes to "character".

We've won a TON of games in hoops over the years, and while I know some folks will jump down my throat for saying this, I don't think the general consensus is that we've ever made much effort at "developing men". Kids come to play hoops. If they get something beyond that then great. But they're here to play hoops.

Yet in football there seems to be this fetishization of discipline, character and mentorship.

Always been a strange dynamic to me.

And all this crap going on with the basketball team and what could be called "lack of institutional control" is why I don't support them the way I do the football team. There is a lot of stuff the basketball team gets away with that no one ever hears about. The only way to turn that cesspool around is to get rid of the staff, and bring in someone new. SU fans have just accepted that winning is more important, and many are turning into UK-like trolls. Now that's a scary thought.

 

[kingottoiii]

I've always been confused with how SU fans seem to hold the football and basketball programs to such wildly different standards when it comes to "character".

We've won a TON of games in hoops over the years, and while I know some folks will jump down my throat for saying this, I don't think the general consensus is that we've ever made much effort at "developing men". Kids come to play hoops. If they get something beyond that then great. But they're here to play hoops.

Yet in football there seems to be this fetishization of discipline, character and mentorship.

Always been a strange dynamic to me.

Yep. I only care about Ws. Give me Mikey and Marcus Vick anyday. Don't care what they did after school, as long as it isn't while in school. In fact I think the track record for our FB team off the field has been worse. Who are our BBall murders? How often do you see kids get kicked off JB's team? We have three Marrone QBs (the biggest leadership position) get in trouble with the law already. Real great judge of character.

 

[billsin01]

I've always been confused with how SU fans seem to hold the football and basketball programs to such wildly different standards when it comes to "character".

We've won a TON of games in hoops over the years, and while I know some folks will jump down my throat for saying this, I don't think the general consensus is that we've ever made much effort at "developing men". Kids come to play hoops. If they get something beyond that then great. But they're here to play hoops.

Yet in football there seems to be this fetishization of discipline, character and mentorship.

Always been a strange dynamic to me.

This is a good point and I have a theory on this. My thought is that football is steeped in this mythical "football mirrors life" quasi-religious, quasi-military quality. One of the managers I work with grew up in Texas, for example, and said he weighed 225 in high school and ate, slept and breathed football b/c he said you were literally basically considered gay if you didn't at least try to play football. He's now 165, his cholesterol has dropped considerably and he never watches a second of football.

But the point is that it's viewed as extremely serious religion, for all intents and purposes, in many areas of the country.

Hoops is viewed, alternately, as a sport played by inner-city black kids who wear $185 Nikes they can't afford.