A positive take on SU & JB | Syracusefan.com

A positive take on SU & JB

Newhouser said:
That's a good article and points out the one comment that the non-Cuse fans make often - you guys underachieve with all the talent you have. What JB has accomplished with that few NBA All-Stars is truly amazing and often ignored.
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For some reason for as long as I remember people have overrated the NBA potential of Syracuse players. Seems like we have more early departures than most who are drafted highly then fizzle out before ever making an impact in the association. Flynn, Wes Johnson, Waiters, and Ennis come to mind. Why is that?
 
"Boeheim has signed 19 McDonald's All-Americans through the years. Duke's Mike Krzyzewski has signed 65. North Carolina has brought in 70 under various coaches. John Calipari has recruited 25 since he took over Kentucky … in 2009."

That quote sums it up imo. JB is a darn good recruiter altho he probably is not the recruiter k, cal, self are. How can you expect him to be? But bottom line, when you look at those #s above and you look at JBs titles , etc vs Cals and Roys (Self too) titles, etc. its pretty clear to me JB overall knows what the heck hes doing...
 
longtimefan said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jim-bo...why-should-anyone-be-surprised-042603860.html
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I can't remember a season with greater player development than this one. Lydon, Frank Howard, and DC stand out with the most dramatic improvement arc this year, but G is also better late in the season, and the team has really gelled. Mali probably suffer from being so good in the middle of the schedule that his improvement is being overlooked too. I recall teams getting better throughout the year, with 1 or 2 guys really stepping up late, but never across the board like this. Really impressive season all around given the tourney success. The goodwill for recruiting, for these guys to stick around another year or 2, and to make the leap into the top 10 next year that comes from another week of prep and national exposure cannot be undervalued. Bullish baby!
 
UnderHisOwnPower said:
I can't remember a season with greater player development than this one. Lydon, Frank Howard, and DC stand out with the most dramatic improvement arc this year, but G is also better late in the season, and the team has really gelled. Mali probably suffer from being so good in the middle of the schedule that his improvement is being overlooked too. I recall teams getting better throughout the year, with 1 or 2 guys really stepping up late, but never across the board like this. Really impressive season all around given the tourney success. The goodwill for recruiting, for these guys to stick around another year or 2, and to make the leap into the top 10 next year that comes from another week of prep and national exposure cannot be undervalued. Bullish baby!
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Thats the prime reason why we have a chance to beat Gonzag imo and possibly even win the next one...if TL, Mal , Frank continue improving, that gives us a real good shot....
 
UnderHisOwnPower said:
I can't remember a season with greater player development than this one. Lydon, Frank Howard, and DC stand out with the most dramatic improvement arc this year, but G is also better late in the season, and the team has really gelled. Mali probably suffer from being so good in the middle of the schedule that his improvement is being overlooked too. I recall teams getting better throughout the year, with 1 or 2 guys really stepping up late, but never across the board like this. Really impressive season all around given the tourney success. The goodwill for recruiting, for these guys to stick around another year or 2, and to make the leap into the top 10 next year that comes from another week of prep and national exposure cannot be undervalued. Bullish baby!
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Not to be a contrarian here, but it's funny how a couple of tournament wins can change people's perceptions. No one was saying how much the team/individuals had improved following the 1-5 close to the season.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Not to be a contrarian here, but it's funny how a couple of tournament wins can change people's perceptions. No one was saying how much the team/individuals had improved following the 1-5 close to the season.
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All good things, my friend!
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shandeezy7 said:
Not to be a contrarian here, but it's funny how a couple of tournament wins can change people's perceptions. No one was saying how much the team/individuals had improved following the 1-5 close to the season.
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LOL...I was thinking the same thing...two years ago we win 25 in a row and go 28-6 overall and lose to Dayton and it was not a good season.

This year we go 19-13 going into the tourney and we win two tourney games and it is a really good season with the possibility of being great.

Just goes to show you that all that matters is the dance...

In fact, the only non-successful tourney year that was still deemed a good year, IMHO, was 2005-6 when we made that magical run to win the Big East and then lost to A&M in the first round...
 
shandeezy7 said:
Not to be a contrarian here, but it's funny how a couple of tournament wins can change people's perceptions. No one was saying how much the team/individuals had improved following the 1-5 close to the season.
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that's a very valid point. To quote JB, we played well against tough teams or in tough places to win during that streak. He even joked that we can't ever beat Pitt, so that was always going to be a loss, but we are not that bad of a team as it appeared going 1-5. 3 Frosh in the top 7 are probably developing the most rapid considering where they are in the lifecycle, and to deliver those 2 tournament wins in the way that they did shows they've learned how to not only play well, but to put teams away. So even during the losses they are soaking up the learning moments to become more competitive.
 
"Yet Syracuse will tip off against Gonzaga in the Sweet 16 on Friday, Boeheim's 18th trip this deep into the NCAA tournament. The Orange in March, same as it ever was."

Running through the article, it occurred to me that SU is not a top program because Dave Bing played there. I mean yeah, he could be considered the Big Bang. But rather, it's a top program because a skinny walk-on from Rochester was his teammate.
 
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That's one of the best articles I have ever read on Boeheim, hands down. And I remember reading a few when Cuse won the national championship.

Everyone should read this. I only fault it for ending too abruptly.
 
UnderHisOwnPower said:
that's a very valid point. To quote JB, we played well against tough teams or in tough places to win during that streak. He even joked that we can't ever beat Pitt, so that was always going to be a loss, but we are not that bad of a team as it appeared going 1-5. 3 Frosh in the top 7 are probably developing the most rapid considering where they are in the lifecycle, and to deliver those 2 tournament wins in the way that they did shows they've learned how to not only play well, but to put teams away. So even during the losses they are soaking up the learning moments to become more competitive.
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Not disagreeing that the experience gained by the young guys has been invaluable, just that it goes to show how much winning cures everything.
 
shandeezy7 said:
Not disagreeing that the experience gained by the young guys has been invaluable, just that it goes to show how much winning cures everything.
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Well, winning at the right time, anyway. Reminds me of one of my favorite aphorisms, "Good shooting forgives a lot of mistakes."
 
Forza Azzurri said:
FWIW, Francesa was on with Jay Wright yesterday and was very bullish on us beating Gonzaga and even on us beating Virginia or Iowa State. Jay, understandably, was non-committal..

So, it isn't everyone..
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Francesa supporting us is not a good sign. He's wrong on everything and is lost on college hoops.
 
orangenirvana said:
For some reason for as long as I remember people have overrated the NBA potential of Syracuse players. Seems like we have more early departures than most who are drafted highly then fizzle out before ever making an impact in the association. Flynn, Wes Johnson, Waiters, and Ennis come to mind. Why is that?
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Simple. Most players fizzle out in the NBA. Wes has had a nearly six year career and has started over 276 games. Is he a game changing all-star? No, but very few players are and he's made a nice chunk of change in the NBA.

I spend more time with MLB prospects which are graded on a 5-tool basis. A prospect can get to the show with one elite MLB tool, but it has to be off the charts. Many have a couple of above average tools, but nothing else. Prospects are graded accordingly. Five tool players get all the press, but a winning team can get lots of value from the guys have an elite tool, but are limited in others. Similarly Syracuse gets a lot of guys who have 1 or 2 NBA-level talents (e.g. passing, rebounding, or size) but are flawed in other ways (e.g., too small for the position, no left hand, limited athleticism, not an NBA stroke etc.). These fringe players certainly can project to the NBA based on one or two tools, but they'll be fringy players and it's incredibly tough to be a superstar without good to great tools across the board. And if a HS player has good to great tools across the board, he's going to be a 5* McD AA and probably go to KU, UK, Duke, or UNC.

If you figure that a five star McD AA HS player has a (made up numbers) 75% chance of making the NBA and 25% chance of sticking for five years and a 5% chance of being an All-Star while a four star has a 25% chance of making the NBA and 5% chance of sticking for five years and 0.5% chance of being an All-Star, then it's easy to see why SU doesn't have a lot of stud NBA players compared to Duke, KU, UNC, and UK who recruit nearly nothing but 5-stars. It's just math.
 
longtimefan said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jim-bo...why-should-anyone-be-surprised-042603860.html
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I think JB was talking to some of the expert posters here who crap out basketball knowledge: ""Nobody that said we didn't deserve to be in [the NCAA tournament] obviously doesn't know anything about basketball," Boeheim declared this weekend in St. Louis – his boldest, and latest, shot at the TV analysts."

"Finally, it was Boeheim's turn. He said Syracuse, claiming Hawaii is just Syracuse in July. Everyone laughed at him. He wasn't joking." Anyone who can love Syracuse as much as JB deserves respect.
 
UnderHisOwnPower said:
I can't remember a season with greater player development than this one. Lydon, Frank Howard, and DC stand out with the most dramatic improvement arc this year, but G is also better late in the season, and the team has really gelled. Mali probably suffer from being so good in the middle of the schedule that his improvement is being overlooked too. I recall teams getting better throughout the year, with 1 or 2 guys really stepping up late, but never across the board like this. Really impressive season all around given the tourney success. The goodwill for recruiting, for these guys to stick around another year or 2, and to make the leap into the top 10 next year that comes from another week of prep and national exposure cannot be undervalued. Bullish baby!
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When Dion played his Sophomore season I could not believe his improvement. XMas his senior year was astounding. Rick Jackson's senior year was astounding. I agree with your post but our program has a long history of taking 4-star players and turning them into superstars at the CBB level.
 
Forza Azzurri said:
LOL...I was thinking the same thing...two years ago we win 25 in a row and go 28-6 overall and lose to Dayton and it was not a good season.

This year we go 19-13 going into the tourney and we win two tourney games and it is a really good season with the possibility of being great.

Just goes to show you that all that matters is the dance...

In fact, the only non-successful tourney year that was still deemed a good year, IMHO, was 2005-6 when we made that magical run to win the Big East and then lost to A&M in the first round...
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It is said that it is not what happens to us, but what we THINK about what happens to us. This is why the Tournament has meant so much to most of us fans this year. We did not play well our last 6 games. That is undeniable. Even our wins (with the exception of WF and Duke) were not great. The players were not consistently putting it together. But in this Tourney, we have put together two great games and all of our players have improved. We are suddenly a team! And that means redemption for our team, for the players, for the coaches. Redemption is a very powerful feeling. It is human nature to savor the experience of redemption.

Conversely, look at Michigan State. A great season completely negated by losing in the first round. But that is only a perceptual choice. In order for MSU fans to recover and get on with their lives, they will probably adopt an attitude such as: "We had such a great team, and a fantastic season. We had so many wonderful players. Nothing can take that away from us. I love our team." Or they can say, "Well, this entire season sucked." I would rather think the former.

It's the journey for me as a fan. The journey up until the tournament was difficult and I felt sad and discouraged. I was willing to live with that feeling, and look forward to next year. People like me can be mocked for not "believing" in the team, but we had a lot of losses, ended on a low note, and that was the reality. I was ready for the season to be over.

Now? I feel like we could win it all! But I am not expecting it. The guys have kicked it up to another level. Will they maintain this fantastic mental/physical frame? We'll see on Friday. I'll be there! And if they lose, I won't put them down, but thank them for the fun and thrills. Go CUSE!
 
bballbeadle said:
It is said that it is not what happens to us, but what we THINK about what happens to us. This is why the Tournament has meant so much to most of us fans this year. We did not play well our last 6 games. That is undeniable. Even our wins (with the exception of WF and Duke) were not great. The players were not consistently putting it together. But in this Tourney, we have put together two great games and all of our players have improved. We are suddenly a team! And that means redemption for our team, for the players, for the coaches. Redemption is a very powerful feeling. It is human nature to savor the experience of redemption.

Conversely, look at Michigan State. A great season completely negated by losing in the first round. But that is only a perceptual choice. In order for MSU fans to recover and get on with their lives, they will probably adopt an attitude such as: "We had such a great team, and a fantastic season. We had so many wonderful players. Nothing can take that away from us. I love our team." Or they can say, "Well, this entire season sucked." I would rather think the former.

It's the journey for me as a fan. The journey up until the tournament was difficult and I felt sad and discouraged. I was willing to live with that feeling, and look forward to next year. People like me can be mocked for not "believing" in the team, but we had a lot of losses, ended on a low note, and that was the reality. I was ready for the season to be over.

Now? I feel like we could win it all! But I am not expecting it. The guys have kicked it up to another level. Will they maintain this fantastic mental/physical frame? We'll see on Friday. I'll be there! And if they lose, I won't put them down, but thank them for the fun and thrills. Go CUSE!
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Very nice!
 
orangenirvana said:
For some reason for as long as I remember people have overrated the NBA potential of Syracuse players. Seems like we have more early departures than most who are drafted highly then fizzle out before ever making an impact in the association. Flynn, Wes Johnson, Waiters, and Ennis come to mind. Why is that?
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It's because the nba is not college, only the best make it, all the guys you mentioned are good bb players but the nba is a whole 'nother thing. Message, stay in school.
 
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