ACC Level Players

[Doc5120]

With all this talk about our lack of depth, talent, whatever you want to call it - it got me thinking - how many ACC level players do we really have right now? Not who can turn into one, as I believe we have some good young talent, but who is at that level and would be on the field for at least 1/2 the league.

Going down the roster I don't see a whole lot right now.

Defense - Cisco (out for year), Trill, Iffy, Mikel Jones, Cantin-Arku. Maybe Linton & Richards. I'm not sure I put any of our d-line here, based on their play.
Offense - Tommy (maybe, I'm probably stretching based on performance- injured regardless), Tucker, Jawhar Jordan (if used correctly, but also out due to injury), Taj, Hackett & Benson (again, if used properly),
ST - Szmyt, Cooney & Nykeim

I know this is very subjective and my opinion based on a quick glance at the roster. But that's a total of 16 guys (3 of which are injured), 3 on ST, so 10 healthy players on offense or defense. Since I'm no talent evaluator, I'm curious how others feel. More, less, about right?

 

[upperdeck]

Williams as a DB has been great, Wax shows signs, Coley , Thompson, Kpogba. Dont know on Nunns, Carter, Hanna needs 20 lbs

 

[upperdeck]

On offense. Bergeron was rushed as was Vettorello, Servais

Barron intrigues me, again he is being rushed, but 6-4 200 in yr one is something we never see here.

 

[Doc5120]

Williams as a DB has been great, Wax shows signs, Coley , Thompson, Kpogba. Dont know on Nunns, Carter, Hanna needs 20 lbs

I really like G. Williams and Wax but I hesitate to put them there just yet. Thompson and Kpogba haven't played enough. I think Kpogba will be very good. Love the LB core.

Jury still out on Carter for me. Hanna hasn't impressed me at all. He was undeniably bad last game.

 

[upperdeck]

I didnt see much from Hanna good or bad last game.. Greenwood was out of position all game. Still both wouldnt be on the field if we were healthy to complain about.

 

[PhatOrange]

Garrett, Wax, Thompson, Hanna, Carter are easily ACC level. These guys are all just babies and shouldn't even be playing.

Hanna playing safety as a 168 pound true freshman has 24 tackles and 1 INT / 1 FR in only 3 games and you're not impressed?

I can understand him being woefully inexperienced reading and diagnosing an offense while still trying to learn his own defense (and responsibilities) but come on.

 

[timkay99]

With all this talk about our lack of depth, talent, whatever you want to call it - it got me thinking - how many ACC level players do we really have right now? Not who can turn into one, as I believe we have some good young talent, but who is at that level and would be on the field for at least 1/2 the league.

Going down the roster I don't see a whole lot right now.

Defense - Cisco (out for year), Trill, Iffy, Mikel Jones, Cantin-Arku. Maybe Linton & Richards. I'm not sure I put any of our d-line here, based on their play.
Offense - Tommy (maybe, I'm probably stretching based on performance- injured regardless), Tucker, Jawhar Jordan (if used correctly, but also out due to injury), Taj, Hackett & Benson (again, if used properly),
ST - Szmyt, Cooney & Nykeim

I know this is very subjective and my opinion based on a quick glance at the roster. But that's a total of 16 guys (3 of which are injured), 3 on ST, so 10 healthy players on offense or defense. Since I'm no talent evaluator, I'm curious how others feel. More, less, about right?

Can't compare to top of the ACC, which is what your list narrows to it seems. Most of the starters are ACC caliber players. The best freshman LB (Thompson) isn't on your list.

The issue isn't talent as much as some think.

- On defense, it is youth and youth and youth and new scheme with no spring. DL is probably the only position on the defense where you can have a truthful conversation about ACC caliber (but that is moreso in the rotational and developmental pieces, not the starters). DL has been running a ton of stunts up front and that is where some of the big gashes have happened via the ground game.

- On offense, it is everything compounded by Devito's injury and where you start to have the conversation of how many in certain position groups (namely OL and WR) are ACC caliber players.

Since Cisco has gone down and replaced by Hanna, it has been more of a 3-4 defense and much more predictable. Hanna hasn't been at the line of scrimmage near as much as he was against GT (when there was no preparing that could have occurred).

 

[Doc5120]

Garrett, Wax, Thompson, Hanna, Carter are easily ACC level. These guys are all just babies and shouldn't even be playing.

Hanna playing safety as a 168 pound true freshman has 24 tackles and 1 INT / 1 FR in only 3 games and you're not impressed?

I can understand him being woefully inexperienced reading and diagnosing an offense while still trying to learn his own defense (and responsibilities) but come on.

That's my point. You say they are "easily ACC level" but then next sentence go on to say they shouldn't be playing. If they are easily ACC level, then they should be playing, and playing well. I'm not asking who can become ACC level. I'm saying what do we have now at the ACC level.

And I wholeheartedly disagree on Hanna. As 1 of my friends pointed out, he looked like a mannequin on that first long TD run by Liberty. He has a lot of tackles because guys are getting into the secondary, not necessarily because he is in the right place. I see him getting blown up and run past.

Garrett, Thompson, Carter and Wax I feel will get there, but right now, they are not ready. Goes back to my point of what do we have at this very moment.

 

[Doc5120]

Can't compare to top of the ACC, which is what your list narrows to it seems. Most of the starters are ACC caliber players. The best freshman LB (Thompson) isn't on your list.

The issue isn't talent as much as some think.

- On defense, it is youth and youth and youth and new scheme with no spring. DL is probably the only position on the defense where you can have a truthful conversation about ACC caliber (but that is moreso in the rotational and developmental pieces, not the starters). DL has been running a ton of stunts up front and that is where some of the big gashes have happened via the ground game.

- On offense, it is everything compounded by Devito's injury and where you start to have the conversation of how many in certain position groups (namely OL and WR) are ACC caliber players.

Since Cisco has gone down and replaced by Hanna, it has been more of a 3-4 defense and much more predictable. Hanna hasn't been at the line of scrimmage near as much as he was against GT (when there was no preparing that could have occurred).

I'm saying 1/2 of the ACC. Let's take Clemson entirely out of this (and I'm not counting ND since they're not a full ACC member in a non Covid year). So of the 13 teams, who would get on the field for 6-7 of them?

If we have so much talent, why are we getting beat, and beat badly by Duke & Liberty? If it's not talent that is ready (which I think it is), then it's coaching. I also think that is part of it. But the main issue is we just don't have the horses.

And I think Tommy is our best QB by a mile, but even before his injury we were 1-3.

 

[timkay99]

I'm saying 1/2 of the ACC. Let's take Clemson entirely out of this (and I'm not counting ND since they're not a full ACC member in a non Covid year). So of the 13 teams, who would get on the field for 6-7 of them?

If we have so much talent, why are we getting beat, and beat badly by Duke & Liberty? If it's not talent that is ready (which I think it is), then it's coaching. I also think that is part of it. But the main issue is we just don't have the horses.

And I think Tommy is our best QB by a mile, but even before his injury we were 1-3.

When you play so many underclassmen, it falls on coaching. But, not in the means you think it does. Coaches job to get reps and develop these guys in practice and spring/fall ball. Add in the new schemes in the Covid world and I am not sure how many young teams are having success. Not sure how many teams breaking in new schemes are playing well, this is a year that continuity is rewarded. Doesn't make it any easier to watch.

It than comes down to who would play on the team that is 25-40 in an ideal world?

Eliminate all underclassmen and focus on your upperclassmen. No top team is playing many, if any freshman, even if they are physically talented enough because they tend to make mistakes (unless a Trevor Lawrence type typically). I count 18 upper classmen ACC caliber. And a number of underclassmen would get on the field for 6-7 of them, but wouldn't if everyone stayed healthy.

 

[upperdeck]

Lots of teams are playing Terrible D in the league not just us. Our issue is lack offense to pick it up. how many games have people watched..

FSU looks awful on offense
Lou looks confused but has play makers
Duke looks awful and lost their Center, but we made it simple cause we couldnt stop the middle power game
Pitt what happened to the QB now? we win that game if they are playing the backup
BC eehh but they will pound us and TE us to death anyway

Wake is gonna run it that against us all night with the delay

NC st lost the QB

Lou will try to get the speed into space on us and may well do it

How many of these teams are trying to do it with oline like ours?

I wish the Transfer was playing tackle and I think we could mix and match after that.

And dont forget when you have so few Oline guys you cant even really practice on either side to help fix issues The oline has to be careful and the D doesnt really get to prepare since the O has to play it safe.

 

[timkay99]

I wish the Transfer was playing tackle and I think we could mix and match after that.

My hot take for the OL is bench Servais, move Vettorello to RT and insert Ilaoa at C. More physical run blocker on the inside with shorter arms, can hopefully provide more push and Servais just hasn't been the same since he became the veteran on the line and got messed with weight wise.

 

[Doc5120]

When you play so many underclassmen, it falls on coaching. But, not in the means you think it does. Coaches job to get reps and develop these guys in practice and spring/fall ball. Add in the new schemes in the Covid world and I am not sure how many young teams are having success. Not sure how many teams breaking in new schemes are playing well, this is a year that continuity is rewarded. Doesn't make it any easier to watch.

It than comes down to who would play on the team that is 25-40 in an ideal world?

Eliminate all underclassmen and focus on your upperclassmen. No top team is playing many, if any freshman, even if they are physically talented enough because they tend to make mistakes (unless a Trevor Lawrence type typically). I count 18 upper classmen ACC caliber. And a number of underclassmen would get on the field for 6-7 of them, but wouldn't if everyone stayed healthy.

I certainly don't know what teams are playing young guys. I'd be surprised if many teams were playing as many young guys as us. Maybe no top team is playing many freshmen, but I'm not talking about us being a top team. I'm talking middle of the pack, and I'm sure plenty of teams out there are putting freshmen on the field. Again, likely not many teams putting the quantity out there we are. But what does that say about our upperclassmen?

We're playing some because they are young, we're playing others because we don't have any upperclassmen who are capable or healthy. I'm hopeful, in time, this trainwreck of a year is a blessing in disguise and all the young guys getting on the field will serve us well.

 

[upperdeck]

history is full of stories of teams really good 1-2 yrs down the road of playing young kids especially when they all have moments of making plays.. you have young kids and then you had 2-4 and suddenly 2 yrs from now you have a 2 deep..

 

[orangepassion]

My hot take for the OL is bench Servais, move Vettorello to RT and insert Ilaoa at C. More physical run blocker on the inside with shorter arms, can hopefully provide more push and Servais just hasn't been the same since he became the veteran on the line and got messed with weight wise.

Do you remember how bad Vet was last year at tackle?