Class of 2014 ACC recruiting class rankings

[PhatOrange]

Well wouldn't the skinny kid not have as much potential? We are basically saying the same thing

Not necessarily and that's another area where football ratings are flawed. They can't project how hard that skinny kid is going to work, how big he's going to get and what's upstairs (in his head).

Frankly it’s just not hard to rank kids. If Alabama and Notre Dame want a kid he must be a 4/5 star. If Northern Illinois and UConn wants a kid he must be a 2 star – so that’s what he gets.

When I watch all these recruiting tapes – few kids stand out above the rest. They all rather look the same. The rankings come down to who’s recruiting who.

 

[RMH44]

Well wouldn't the skinny kid not have as much potential? We are basically saying the same thing

While I'm sure everyone here would love a class full of 4 and 5-star recruits, that doesn't mean that the system isn't seriously flawed. I honestly believe that a player's offer list and a team's subscription numbers on a given service's site also weigh heavily into the grading formula.

 

[wfschrec]

While I'm sure everyone here would love a class full of 4 and 5-star recruits, that doesn't mean that the system isn't seriously flawed. I honestly believe that a player's offer list and a team's subscription numbers on a given service's site also weigh heavily into the grading formula.

Two words for you ... Andre Wadsworth ...

 

[anomander]

While I'm sure everyone here would love a class full of 4 and 5-star recruits, that doesn't mean that the system isn't seriously flawed. I honestly believe that a player's offer list and a team's subscription numbers on a given service's site also weigh heavily into the grading formula.

I agree with that it is flawed to an extent and I prefer to gauge a player based on his offer list. But usually the kids with the high profile offer lists tend to be higher rated like you said. We really haven't had many kids that we out recruited against a laundry list of big 5 conference schools either. If we want to be in the upper half of the ACC were going to really need to amp up our recruiting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[anomander]

Not necessarily and that's another area where football ratings are flawed. They can't project how hard that skinny kid is going to work, how big he's going to get and what's upstairs (in his head).

Frankly it’s just not hard to rank kids. If Alabama and Notre Dame want a kid he must be a 4/5 star. If Northern Illinois and UConn wants a kid he must be a 2 star – so that’s what he gets.

When I watch all these recruiting tapes – few kids stand out above the rest. They all rather look the same. The rankings come down to who’s recruiting who.

Then why are Bama and ND usually much better then NIU and Uconn?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[RMH44]

Then why are Bama and ND usually much better then NIU and Uconn?


-

Totally agree with Alabama but I think ND is a poor example to support your argument. They've always had very highly rated recruiting classes (partially due to Lemming's influence) and, for the most part, severely under achieve.

 

[PhatOrange]

Then why are Bama and ND usually much better then NIU and Uconn?

because they recruit the best kids, but anybody can rank 'those' kids.

You want a good laugh though, this is funny. Since 2006 Notre Dame has had 4 top 10 recruiting classes. Between 2006-2012 all of their classes have been top 25. Do you know how many times they’ve finished in the AP Top 25 since 2007?

Once as in ONE top 25 AP finish. And they're not ranked right now.

 

[baggerbob]

The star system is good for what it represents, but players like Isaiah Johnson, and Jamar McGloster who take the game up late in high school, aren't usually evaluated properly, because their technique is not as advanced. What you can't teach is size, speed, heart, but if the player has these things you can teach technique.

 

[TheCusian]

Def went too long without the star argument! Was getting worried!

 

[anomander]

Totally agree with Alabama but I think ND is a poor example to support your argument. They've always had very highly rated recruiting classes (partially due to Lemming's influence) and, for the most part, severely under achieve.

Ya they probably aren't the best example I was just quoting phat's post. You could blame a lot of that on coaching though. No matter how much potential a kid has they have to be developed properly and put into a system that works. You can argue Weis tried to force a system that may never work at ND because of the type of kids they get. As for Wilmingham I believe he is currently unemployed. They have amped up their recruiting even more with Kelly and he has shown the ability to maximize potential and they seem to be doing better.

Even still if we go back to the discussion of who is better ND or NIU / Uconn I would still say ND would win 7 or 8 out of 10 even during that time period


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[PhatOrange]

These are all schools who have as many (or more) top 25 finishes as ND since 20007. (and it’s doubtful any of them – save an exception here or there – have had top 25 recruiting classes in the same time period.)

Boston College
Cincinnati (4)
Hawaii
Boise State (5)
Iowa (2)
BYU (2)
TCU (2)
Pittsburgh
Utah
Central Michigan
Nevada
Central Florida
Maryland
Tulsa
Baylor
Houston
Southern Mississippi
Utah State
Northwestern
San Jose State
Northern Illinois
Vanderbilt

 

[PhatOrange]

Since 2007 – these are the AP Top 25 finishes of schools I would consider peer schools. So in others words, regardless of recruit rankings, if we’re consistently beating out this group of schools for recruits, then we should have enough talent 1-85 to consistently be a top 25 school. (people should forget 10 win seasons and 4 team playoff aspirations – that will happen once every blue moon).

Missouri
West Virginia
Kansas
Virginia Tech
Boston College
BYU
Arizona State
Cincinnati
Illinois
Texas Tech
Wisconsin
Utah
TCU
Mississippi
Iowa
Georgia Tech
Michigan State
Pittsburgh
Central Michigan
Arkansas
Central Florida
Maryland
NC State
Oklahoma St
Baylor
Kansas St
Houston
Louisville
Northwestern
Vanderbilt

 

[PhatOrange]

Currently, these are the peer group schools (or better) we’ve got commitments from:

AJ Long – Arizona, UCLA

Zaire Franklin – Arizona, Pitt

Colton Moskal – Minnesota, Cincinnati, Northern Illinois

Parris Bennett – Pitt

Jason Cabinda – Penn State, Boston College, Maryland

KJ Williams – Michigan, Missouri, Arizona, UCLA, Pitt, Wisconsin, Vandy, Rutgers, Central Florida

Lamar Dawson – Cincinnati

Jamal Custis – Pitt, UVA, Central Florida, Rutgers

Aaron Roberts – Illinois, Northern Illinois

In addition these kids have also been offered by a slew of ‘mid majors’ who quite frankly can compete in most conferences. I include a school like Northern Illinois because this is a school who has been ranked and who has played in (justified or not) a BCS bowl game. Maybe the kid we’re getting is the highest kid on their board – who knows – I don’t and rvls sure as heck doesn’t know either.

So our 66th ranked class is on the right path. You consistently fill your class with 20 kids who sport peer offers then imho it’ll put us in the mix to play for top 25 rankings; regardless of where scowt or rvls ranks us.

 

[anomander]

These are all schools who have as many (or more) top 25 finishes as ND since 20007. (and it’s doubtful any of them – save an exception here or there – have had top 25 recruiting classes in the same time period.)

Boston College
Cincinnati (4)
Hawaii
Boise State (5)
Iowa (2)
BYU (2)
TCU (2)
Pittsburgh
Utah
Central Michigan
Nevada
Central Florida
Maryland
Tulsa
Baylor
Houston
Southern Mississippi
Utah State
Northwestern
San Jose State
Northern Illinois
Vanderbilt

What's the common theme with all these schools though? If any of them annually played ND's schedule it wouldn't be close. Most of those are non power conference schools.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[PhatOrange]

Ya they probably aren't the best example I was just quoting phat's post. You could blame a lot of that on coaching though. No matter how much potential a kid has they have to be developed properly and put into a system that works. You can argue Weis tried to force a system that may never work at ND because of the type of kids they get. As for Wilmingham I believe he is currently unemployed. They have amped up their recruiting even more with Kelly and he has shown the ability to maximize potential and they seem to be doing better.

Even still if we go back to the discussion of who is better ND or NIU / Uconn I would still say ND would win 7 or 8 out of 10 even during that time period

yeah or the ratings were wrong because they severely over rated their kids. how many pros? i have no idea.

fact is there is A LOT that goes into winning. It's more than just what star rating some kid has been given by rvls.

 

[anomander]

yeah or the ratings were wrong because they severely over rated their kids. how many pros? i have no idea.

fact is there is A LOT that goes into winning. It's more than just what star rating some kid has been given by rvls.

What kind of winning are we talking about? Scraping by for 6 wins and a bowl? Sure were recruiting good enough for that, but if we want to consistently be in the upper half of the ACC and be a threat to contend once or twice a decade we have a ways to go


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[PhatOrange]

What's the common theme with all these schools though? If any of them annually played ND's schedule it wouldn't be close. Most of those are non power conference schools.

Thats an easy excuse. Do you want me to do a complete analysis of their schedule because they’ve played and lost to a lot of dogs in that timeframe. Geez they even lost to Gump on their home field.

 

[anomander]

Thats an easy excuse. Do you want me to do a complete analysis of their schedule because they’ve played and lost to a lot of dogs in that timeframe. Geez they even lost to Gump on their home field.

It's not as much them, but how the other schools would fare against the same competition . If NIU played their schedule last season do you think they are in the Sufar Bowl and a top 25 team? I say they lose at least 3 times


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[PhatOrange]

What kind of winning are we talking about? Scraping by for 6 wins and a bowl? Sure were recruiting good enough for that, but if we want to consistently be in the upper half of the ACC and be a threat to contend once or twice a decade we have a ways to go

I’m talking about consistent 7-5 to 9-3 seasons. But you know, if it’s 6 wins and a bowl then so be it. IT sure beats a losing record and sitting home.

Show me a team that has had 10 straight seasons at 7-5 or better? Im to lazy to look, I’ll bet its’ rare.

Since the ACC championship game was established this is who’s played.

FSU / VT
Wake / GT
BC / VT
BC / VT
Clemson / GT
FSU / VT
Clemson / VT
FSU / GT

I’d be happy with getting in the game once or twice a decade but that’s me.

 

[anomander]

I’m talking about consistent 7-5 to 9-3 seasons. But you know, if it’s 6 wins and a bowl then so be it. IT sure beats a losing record and sitting home.

Show me a team that has had 10 straight seasons at 7-5 or better? Im to lazy to look, I’ll bet its’ rare.

Since the ACC championship game was established this is who’s played.

FSU / VT
Wake / GT
BC / VT
BC / VT
Clemson / GT
FSU / VT
Clemson / VT
FSU / GT

I’d be happy with getting in the game once or twice a decade but that’s me.

I would be more then fine with that . But were in a division with FSU, Clemson, and soon to be Louisville. I just don't think we will ever have a chance recruiting at our current pace. I do think it will improve with the completion of the IPF and the current staff establishing themselves. It was just a wake up call watching Clemson warm up from 10 yards away. That's what we're going to have to deal with the foreseeable future.

I do think we can win at a pretty good clip 7-9 wins a year, borderline top 25 program if we can consistently bring in top 40 classes. Id be happy with that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[PhatOrange]

I would be more then fine with that . But were in a division with FSU, Clemson, and soon to be Louisville. I just don't think we will ever have a chance recruiting at our current pace. I do think it will improve with the completion of the IPF and the current staff establishing themselves. It was just a wake up call watching Clemson warm up from 10 yards away. That's what we're going to have to deal with the foreseeable future.

I do think we can win at a pretty good clip 7-9 wins a year, borderline top 25 program if we can consistently bring in top 40 classes. Id be happy with that

We’re not a blueblood football school and such is life but sports are cyclical. FSU and Clemson are not always great, they’re up years and down years. LVille frankly isn’t all that scary.

Clemson since 2001
7-5
7-6
9-4
6-5
8-4
8-5
9-4
7-6
9-5
6-7
10-4
11-2

Florida State since 2001
8-4
9-5
10-3
9-3
8-5
7-6
7-6
9-4
7-6
10-4
9-4
12-2

 

[RMH44]

We’re not a blueblood football school and such is life but sports are cyclical. FSU and Clemson are not always great, they’re up years and down years. LVille frankly isn’t all that scary.

Clemson since 2001
7-5
7-6
9-4
6-5
8-4
8-5
9-4
7-6
9-5
6-7
10-4
11-2

Florida State since 2001
8-4
9-5
10-3
9-3
8-5
7-6
7-6
9-4
7-6
10-4
9-4
12-2

They were calling for Dabo's head just a couple of years ago.

 

[4evaOrange]

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/acc/post?id=61614


13. Syracuse, 13 commits: Syracuse has four-star QB A.J. Long (Lebanon, Tenn./Friendship Christian School) as the headliner of a class that includes three linebackers and 13 three-star commits. The Orange would love to keep No. 86 overall Thomas Holley (Brooklyn, N.Y./Lincoln High) close to home, but are fighting an uphill battle.


13 out of 14 for those counting at home.

They have AJ as a 4 star???

 

[Whitey23]

They have AJ as a 4 star???

Ya, as an athlete I believe.

 

[4evaOrange]

Ya, as an athlete I believe.

Thanks.