Another Frank Howard thread

[realorange]

As JB said in his presser, Frank has learned to play through his mistakes.

 

[Trueblue25]

Frank needs to maintain a poker face and let his play speak to himself.

 

[CuseLifer11]

Would love to be able to rewatch the game and look at how many of the turnovers were the result of players on the other end of passes not being able to catch and also see how many assists he lost because we couldn't put anything in the basket from within five feet. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like his numbers could have been much better if his teammates helped him a little bit.

Roughly all of them.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Roughly all of them.

Stop! He got the ball stripped at least twice rising up for a shot. Frank is playing very well but he is definitely struggling with turnovers. Some might be on his teammates but the majority are his to own.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Would love to be able to rewatch the game and look at how many of the turnovers were the result of players on the other end of passes not being able to catch

Why are we assuming some of his turnovers were falsely attributed to him? Isn’t it the stat keeper’s judgment to determine who is at fault? I’d assume the ones where the bigs fumbled good passes were credited to the bigs. Seems pretty easy to determine by checking the box score.

Bottom line though we need to stop trying to rationalize that 7 turnovers is somehow “not so bad”.

 

[CuseLifer11]

Why are we assuming some of his turnovers were falsely attributed to him? Isn’t it the stat keeper’s judgment to determine who is at fault? I’d assume the ones where the bigs fumbled good passes were credited to the bigs. Seems pretty easy to determine by checking the box score.

Bottom line though we need to stop trying to rationalize that 7 turnovers is somehow “not so bad”.

Franco this is a real naive post man. Coach draws up a play and Frank throws it where someone is supposed to be but isn't. Turnover on Frank. Happens at least three times a game.

 

[orange79]

Franco this is a real naive post man. Coach draws up a play and Frank throws it where someone is supposed to be but isn't. Turnover on Frank. Happens at least three times a game.

Maybe three times a game. But 7? It didn't happen 7 times yesterday. Look - I'm a Frank supporter, but you have to take off the Frankorange-colored glasses a bit. 'Roughly all of them' is roughly hyperbolic.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Franco this is a real naive post man. Coach draws up a play and Frank throws it where someone is supposed to be but isn't. Turnover on Frank. Happens at least three times a game.

These aren’t timing patterns in football - you don’t throw a pass to a guy that’s not there or looking for the ball. Just because frank scowls and throws his hands up doesn’t mean he’s somehow innocent.

 

[721Comstock]

Maybe three times a game. But 7? It didn't happen 7 times yesterday. Look - I'm a Frank supporter, but you have to take off the Frankorange-colored glasses a bit. 'Roughly all of them' is roughly hyperbolic.

There's pretty much no such thing as 0 TO's vs decent to good competition. That's an unrealistic expectation.

Let's say 3-4 is acceptable, especially in light of it being an OT game, and also having 9 dimes.
So, those 2-3 times when the guy he was passing to wasn't where he was supposed to be, or fumbled the pass, are indeed acceptable, all things considered.

He can't make the other guy catch the ball, or make the shot.
IF Frank's teammates converted just half of those opportunities, he'd have 2-3 less TO's, and 2-3 more assists.

Never thought I'd say this, but Frank and MCW are eerily similar overall in this regard.
Only Frank isn't throwing those moronic jump-passes to nowhere/the other team, like MCW did 1-2x every game.

 

[pfister1]

Bottom line though we need to stop trying to rationalize that 7 turnovers is somehow “not so bad”.

Why do you insist on looking at the negative side of absolutely everything. We can all see the 7 turnovers, they are there in the box score for everyone to see. Many can also see that Frank's performance yesterday wasn't nearly as bad as those who immediately go to "He had 7 turnovers" seem to want to make it out to be.

What is the point? There is no backup point guard, or backup plan for the point guard position. We are where we are at this point. You can choose to wring your hands, cast stones at Frank for the things that he is currently not capable of doing and blame JB for being where we are with the roster or you can acknowledge where we are, celebrate the positive and root for Frank to continue to improve.

That doesn't mean you have to ignore his shortcomings. Every one of the players on our roster, and frankly, every player that has ever played here, has/had shortcomings. But what is the point of focusing on those shortcomings in this case, you can't even really be arguing for playing time for a backup because with Geno gone, there isn't really a true backup option.

You are a fan of SU basketball. The team and players, are never going to be perfect. If you are going to spend your fandom seeking perfection....you'll spend most of your fandom being very unhappy. Instead, try enjoying the fact that we WON a very entertaining game yesterday. There were ups and downs during that 45 minutes, but in the end we were left with the afterglow of a win. Enjoy that, rather than wringing your hands over what the seven turnovers may mean with respect to our ability to compete against the next opponent.

 

[cuseattle]

You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the Franks of life.

 

[Townie72]

What we don't understand yet about Frank is whether he is capable of learning what not to do in order to reduce turnovers.

JB said that he is learning to play through them or to put mistakes behind him and keep playing.

And that is important. But, I'd like to see some actual "learning" occur. If Frank is still making 7 turnovers a game --- recognizing that some of those TO's yesterday were not totally his fault --- at the end of the season, we will know the answer.

In yesterday's game when you consider the good things he did and compare it to the bad things, he came way out ahead. So we can look forward to him playing the great majority of every minute. The extent to which he can learn not to do the things that lead to turnovers will greatly influence the team's record this season. OB and TB cannot do it by themselves. The Centers are slow-developing projects at this point in the season.

JB's comment that the three drives that Frank had were one of the keys to the win. Can we continue to get more of the good and less of the bad?

 

[Bayside44]

One thing I noticed - he barks a lot - at refs, teammates.

However he was so much more athletic than the guys on him, he has great blow-by skills.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He had 3 blow by layups in about a 2 minute period that kept the ship afloat.

And I remember many on here saying he couldn't get by anyone... No one could check him yesterday when he wanted to go, and their bigs didn't help at all.

The one shot I was disappointed with yesterday was around a screen but just inside the 3 line. I hate long twos. But he made it, we won, all is well.

Oh, and he needs to stop picking up two fouls in the first half.

 

[realorange]

I try to remember something I was told a long time ago regarding people, Frank included:

Learn to accept people the way they are and n0t necessarily the way you'd like them to be.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Stop! He got the ball stripped at least twice rising up for a shot. Frank is playing very well but he is definitely struggling with turnovers. Some might be on his teammates but the majority are his to own.

He recovered one of them so let's say he got one of those back. And pretty sure he was fouled at least once on those, with no call as usual.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

As JB said in his presser, Frank has learned to play through his mistakes.

This is the real chicken and egg situation here, and it's the classic JB scenario. With no one behind Frank, maybe JB has learned to let Frank play through his mistakes. Some guys, and maybe Frank is one of those guys, just can't play well knowing that with one mistake, they are sitting down and getting an earful from the coach. Looking over your shoulder is not the best way to play basketball.

 

[orangecuse]

I try to remember something I was told a long time ago regarding people, Frank included:

Learn to accept people the way they are and n0t necessarily the way you'd like them to be.

Absolutely, relative to one's character, being, etc.

I'm not sure if that is wise in regards to skill set, craft capability, and the like if you're running a business, etc. If you have an employee that repeatedly makes the same mistakes, which are crucial to the success of your business, or continues to prove he/she isn't in their 'right seat on the bus' one in authority can not simply "accept" that if they desire to be successful/stay in business. The shortcomings and losses could eventually become substantial and to the point where it may adversely affect profits, etc., with ensuing dire consequences.

 

[019Jules]

All the comments on Frank’s turnovers are focused on what he’s doing with the ball. If I recall correctly, two of his 2nd half turnovers were travels. If he can get his footwork organized when he begins his drives, he can cut down on empty possessions. At least I hope this is something that can improve with more PG experience.

 

[007]

Franco this is a real naive post man. Coach draws up a play and Frank throws it where someone is supposed to be but isn't. Turnover on Frank. Happens at least three times a game.

Love your stuff man, even when it's "not even close."

Let's assume the above is correct (I don't think it is). Next time you talk with JB, ask him why Frank is throwing the ball to someone who isn't there..."at least 3 times a game."

 

[RaleighSUfan]

I think the reason there’s so much discussion about Frank is that when he plays well, he looks like an All-American. Unfortunately, there are too many instances where he either doesn’t value the ball or tries to force a play that isn’t there. He’s kinda like a home run hitter in baseball. Instead of trying to put the ball into play and going for a base hit, he’s swinging for the fence too often. At the end of the day I’d much rather have a player like Frank who’s capable of playing great than rolling Kaleb out there again.

 

[justgold315]

He’s kinda like a home run hitter in baseball. Instead of trying to put the ball into play and going for a base hit, he’s swinging for the fence too often.

I agree with this 100%. In the second half of the Georgetown game, he was driving to hoop and making easy layups. Those were available pretty much the entire first half. In the first half, he would dribble for 10 second while no one was moving or he was hucking up threes (0 for 5 from 3p). I think he needs to build on his strengths and stop playing hero ball