Anyone concerned with guard play next year?

[SUintheVille]

Talent wise nope, depth wise big time, one injury n were screwed

Don't worry...Mookie's coming back

 

[senorpalmer]

I'm very intrigued by the size and length of the potential backcourt trio next year (Triche, MCW, Cooney), I can't remember a guard rotation with that much size since 96 (Sims, Cipolla, Janulis). Depth is a little concern, though Boeheim typically doesn't go beyond a 3 man rotation when it counts, and he's managed to make it work most years, whether or not there was a solid 4th guard on the roster.

 

[alibrat66]

Yes, concerned was spelled wrong in the title, I don't know how to change it.

Today all the buzz was about adding Noel. Obviously he is a can't miss talent. If Waiters comes back I'm not worried. If Fab comes back it makes whether or not Noel comes to Cuse much easier.

However, if Waiters leaves the line up looks like this.

C - Melo, Noel, Coleman, Keita (Prob Redshirt)
Forwards - Christmas, Southerland, Fair, Grant
Guards - Triche, Cooney, MCW

Keep in mind, MCW hasn't been able to shoot this year. Triche disapears often and who knows what Cooney is going to provide as he hasn't seen the court.

To me I think that adding a guard is much more important. Just my thoughts. If Waiters comes back though then there would be no worries.

I'm having too much fun following this year's team without stressing over next year's edition. It's cool to have this moment in my life: a highly-exciting team to look forward to watching every game.

 

[bpo57]

People are worried about guards next year?! There won't be three other teams in D1 who have three guards the quality of ours. Depth is no issue. How many times do you have more than 2 good guards on a team and sometimes only one really good one. Please find something to really be concerned about with next years team.

I agree with you about the quality of the three guards but disagree about depth not being an issue. If one of those three guards get hurt then it's a LONG way down to the 4th guard. None of the frontcourt players appear (to me anyway) of being suited to playing the guard position. Not saying we need to recruit a McD AA right now but it would be nice to have some sort of option beyond a walk-on.

 

[orangefan13]

Dion will be very important to the lineup IMO without him our backcourt could be so much better. And the reason is floor spacing.
It would be better for Triche if Dion comes back because...

The thing about Triche is he is a prototypical Scoring guard. He is best when he is all over the floor.

1. Triche needs to be baseline and sideline and run around screens to hit his full potential not dribble the ball at the top of the three point line and pass it to Rak, Melo, or DC in the high post. Can't stress this enough. So when MCW isn't in he won't be getting those spots if he is the backup point.

2. Dion gives us a backup point guard with MCW. Infact he will probably start at point. Hes the Jr after all. It doesn't really matter what side he starts on he will be the isolation guy to begin plays. He keeps Triche out of the point position and in the motion where Triche can show off.

Plus Dion needs work on his three point shot range, his dishing game, scoring when post threats aren't getting it done, and his D (although his D is pretty good right now).
Dion would be doing Triche a favor by coming back.

 

[rrlbees]

Dion will be very important to the lineup IMO without him our backcourt could be so much better. And the reason is floor spacing.
It would be better for Triche if Dion comes back because...

The thing about Triche is he is a prototypical Scoring guard. He is best when he is all over the floor.

1. Triche needs to be baseline and sideline and run around screens to hit his full potential not dribble the ball at the top of the three point line and pass it to Rak, Melo, or DC in the high post. Can't stress this enough. So when MCW isn't in he won't be getting those spots if he is the backup point.

2. Dion gives us a backup point guard with MCW. Infact he will probably start at point. Hes the Jr after all. It doesn't really matter what side he starts on he will be the isolation guy to begin plays. He keeps Triche out of the point position and in the motion where Triche can show off.

Plus Dion needs work on his three point shot range, his dishing game, scoring when post threats aren't getting it done, and his D (although his D is pretty good right now).
Dion would be doing Triche a favor by coming back.

Triche is better with the ball in his hands.

Sent from my DROIDX

 

[orangefan13]

Triche is better with the ball in his hands.

Sent from my DROIDX

Not sure I understand what you mean exactly.
I agree he does have a occasional transition drive to the basket but his offense is great when it adds..

1. hes running baseline and sideline.
2.When he is getting low post pass and rebounds for easy buckets inside. When he rolls around screens from motion that lead to threes is a HUGE not Big part of his game.
3. When he gets a occasional screen
4. When he moves it opens things up for guys like KJO to drive and gives our bigs a chance to come out and make a post pass. KJO scores alot off his motion this year.

The occasianal drive to the bucket is only two or three times a game but he almost never shoots with a defender on him. He tries to break free away from his defender thats his scoring style.
Maybe with all the low post height and strength it will benefit his drive even more next year with screens.

Could he be a point guard yes. But I wouldn't equate him as anywhere near the passing game of MCW or Scoop right now. He never backs down his defender and pops a three right over him (maybe as a point guard that would be easier).

Hes just so methodical to his game and when his reflexes start going he has it. He could carry any team in the country when his motion is opening up things.

The only bad part about Dion coming back is TC would get a minutes cut and MCW a slight one also. But if thats whats best for the team then so be it.

Case and point Triches motion was atleast 25 percent of the reason we beat WVU. I would venture to say 40% of the reason we beat cincy.
He practically won that game for us.

I honestly feel Triche doesn't run enough motion. And would like to see him in a Dion like fashion hustle it up. But unlike Dion only look to drive off his motion and a quick pass. He moves without the ball very well.

Not saying your wrong just debating. Got to run to work .

 

[jekelish]

First of all, I never want a point guard (or any guard) to "back down a defender and pop a three over him" because that's awful offense.

And when you say "run motion" regarding Triche, do you just mean movement away from the ball?

Triche is a point guard, and bees is right, he's better with the ball in his hands. You talk about him driving and using screens; have you ever noticed that our point guard does the majority of that?

Finally, people hear "point guard" and assume that means that player is the only one who distributes and moves off the ball, which is patently false. The point guard initiates the offense, yes, but as soon as he gets rid of it he can do any of the things you say you believe Triche thrives at. He gets rid of the ball, runs off of screens, can make cuts, etc. The point guard doesn't have the ball for the entirety of the possession.

Triche will play PG next year if Dion comes back, and he'll have a great year if that's the case, I think. If Dion leaves, then Triche will remain off the ball and MCW will become the point partly because he's more of a point than a 2, and partly because Triche is by far the more natural 2 of that pairing because of his superior ability to score (at this stage).

 

[SyracuseFan]

Amazing what people worry about. we'll have better guard play next year Book it, lol. MCW will be the best PG in the league. Give Triche and MCW 30 minutes and Cooney 20 and we'll have the best back court in the league. IF dion is back we'll have the best backcourt in the country.

As everyone has said we have nothing to worry about. Fair & southerland will be an amazing tandem by next year. Then throw in Keita, Rak, DJC & the one and only Noel and we will have a top 10 squad wire to wire Imo. its not the old days. Only thing I'm worried about is new jersey designs and reloading with MCW'S Replacement in 2013-2014

 

[SmilinBob]

The backcourt as many have said will be fine and even if Waiters stays or goes. MCW, Triche, Cooney and maybe Grant could swing down as well if needed. Boeheim has done a very nice job of talent/depth and projecting what he needs.

 

[Eric15]

Play Southerland as a big SG at times.

If I was an opposing coach and saw that we had Southerland at the 2, I would call on the most relentless full court press of all time.

 

[pfister1]

Southie has the better 3 point stroke, which is why I proposed it.

But with virtually no handle, which is why it probably wouldn't happen.

 

[dollarbill44]

Not worried one bit. MCW takes over at the point, BT keeps his same role and TC spells both of them. I really think MCW and TC are going to be a formidable duo in the future.

 

[orangefan13]

First of all, I never want a point guard (or any guard) to "back down a defender and pop a three over him" because that's awful offense.

And when you say "run motion" regarding Triche, do you just mean movement away from the ball?

Triche is a point guard, and bees is right, he's better with the ball in his hands. You talk about him driving and using screens; have you ever noticed that our point guard does the majority of that?

Finally, people hear "point guard" and assume that means that player is the only one who distributes and moves off the ball, which is patently false. The point guard initiates the offense, yes, but as soon as he gets rid of it he can do any of the things you say you believe Triche thrives at. He gets rid of the ball, runs off of screens, can make cuts, etc. The point guard doesn't have the ball for the entirety of the possession.

Triche will play PG next year if Dion comes back, and he'll have a great year if that's the case, I think. If Dion leaves, then Triche will remain off the ball and MCW will become the point partly because he's more of a point than a 2, and partly because Triche is by far the more natural 2 of that pairing because of his superior ability to score (at this stage).

Good post Alot of that is what I was hinting toward.
That is what I meant Triche playing well off the ball when he is in motion without the ball. Good things happen when he does. I question if he has the intensity to do it for 20 mintues

I also like your part about Point guards getting rid of the ball, and creating offense by moving without the ball. Not so much away from the ball but without it. Thats what I meant by run motion .

College basketball is won in the halfcourt offense. Nobody can take half court offense away if your good enough, but anyone can play stop transition defense. Thats a key fact. Anyone that thinks we will win a title with transition is delusional.

When defenses are at the toughest its only motion, ball movement, post up mistaches, and the ability to thread fine needles or create holes that make people leaders. Not sure Triche has earned that title yet, but reguardless he makes good things happen
1. moving without the ball and
2.hustling when he does have it.
He works well next to a few isolation players not as much as one like the best true PG's are.


Hes starting to create some isolation but next year when we have Dion, CJ, DC, Fab, and Whoever not sure we will need him to.

Now when Cooney is in the game with Triche next to him thats a different story because Cooney will be the guy moving to get open to bury the three.
Frankly that lineup scares me alittle though because we lose KJO and have no Point driving
forward from the three point line if Triche and Cooney both try to move without the ball.
Thats when it will be obvious we need a guy to break his man down and get by them.
It is then we will have no option but to pound it inside and try to layup like crazy and defenses will play us expecting that.

Agree though 100%. If Dion drives and Triche is off the ball that is fine. No reason to put to much emphasis on beating the press when you have Dion MCW and Triche on the floor with Fair at the three.

Also Dion loves to call plays and direct players to positions on the court. He has done that more then Triche this year by a landslide. Maybe even more then Scoop even though scoop is killing it in assists.

This is college ball thereis no definite way to do or not do things. Murry State, and Baylor both won games the last few nights driving down and popping a three right over their defender.

Once again Good post .

 

[DallasCuse]

Yes, concerned was spelled wrong in the title, I don't know how to change it.

Today all the buzz was about adding Noel. Obviously he is a can't miss talent. If Waiters comes back I'm not worried. If Fab comes back it makes whether or not Noel comes to Cuse much easier.

However, if Waiters leaves the line up looks like this.

C - Melo, Noel, Coleman, Keita (Prob Redshirt)
Forwards - Christmas, Southerland, Fair, Grant
Guards - Triche, Cooney, MCW

Keep in mind, MCW hasn't been able to shoot this year. Triche disapears often and who knows what Cooney is going to provide as he hasn't seen the court.

To me I think that adding a guard is much more important. Just my thoughts. If Waiters comes back though then there would be no worries.

Theus, DeBrick Williams and some bad shooting freshman from Georgia named Pace... yes, that was very concerning.

MCW, Triche and Cooney (if Dion leaves), it's like Lamb, Rose and Curry compared to 2001-2.

 

[tbonezone]

james thues (not theus) i feel is a little under appreciated for what he did here as a pg. thrown into the fire as a soph after barely playing as a frosh thues had a better than 2:1 a/to ratio and is tied (101)with jason hart for most steals alltime in a season.his assist #'s as a soph are 4th alltime behind sherm,pearl and flynn.

 

[AZOrange]

Not worried one bit. MCW takes over at the point, BT keeps his same role and TC spells both of them. I really think MCW and TC are going to be a formidable duo in the future.

Worried a little about depth, but not talent.

 

[dollarbill44]

Worried a little about depth, but not talent.

Other than this year, when have we ever used more than a 3 guard rotation?

 

[AZOrange]

Other than this year, when have we ever used more than a 3 guard rotation?

Sure. Although alot of times it was helped by a tweener guy that could slide back

02-03: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, Duany
03-04: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, LMac
04-05: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, LMac
05-06: Gmac, Devo, Wright, LMac
06-07: Devo, Harris, Rautins, Wright
07-08: Devo (got hurt), Rautins, Harris, Scoop, Flynn (Rautins would have been in rotation)
08-09: Devo, Flynn, Harris, Rautins
09-10: Rautins, Scoop, Triche (this was the first year with 3 only although Mookie played 17 games)
10-11: Scoop, Triche, Dion

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Yes, concerned was spelled wrong in the title, I don't know how to change it.

Today all the buzz was about adding Noel. Obviously he is a can't miss talent. If Waiters comes back I'm not worried. If Fab comes back it makes whether or not Noel comes to Cuse much easier.

However, if Waiters leaves the line up looks like this.

C - Melo, Noel, Coleman, Keita (Prob Redshirt)
Forwards - Christmas, Southerland, Fair, Grant
Guards - Triche, Cooney, MCW

Keep in mind, MCW hasn't been able to shoot this year. Triche disapears often and who knows what Cooney is going to provide as he hasn't seen the court.

To me I think that adding a guard is much more important. Just my thoughts. If Waiters comes back though then there would be no worries.

You nailed it. Despite the fact that we have what looks to be one of the top teams of Boeheim's tenure and are heading solidly towards a #1 seed in the tourney, I have been unable to sleep at night thinking about next year's guard situation.

I have just one question though:

If you don't think that a three-year stater, a McDonald's All-American who has earned some PT this year and a guy who has been practicing against one of the top backcourts in the country all season can get it done next year, why would an incoming recruit, any incoming recruit, who has never had a minute of college game time or practice time all of a sudden going to stabilize the backcourt situation?

Unless you've figured out a way to recruit Derrick Rose to 'Cuse, I just don't see how, given the way you've characterized the state of our backcourt for next year, an incoming high school senior will be able to provide the guarantee of that stability you seek.

 

[dollarbill44]

Sure. Although alot of times it was helped by a tweener guy that could slide back

02-03: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, Duany
03-04: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, LMac
04-05: Gmac, Edelin, Pace, LMac
05-06: Gmac, Devo, Wright, LMac
06-07: Devo, Harris, Rautins, Wright
07-08: Devo (got hurt), Rautins, Harris, Scoop, Flynn (Rautins would have been in rotation)
08-09: Devo, Flynn, Harris, Rautins
09-10: Rautins, Scoop, Triche (this was the first year with 3 only although Mookie played 17 games)
10-11: Scoop, Triche, Dion

I didn't really consider Pace and Harris to be guards. Like you said, they were the tweeners that could slot in at guard when needed but they weren't guys you'd want handling the ball or shooting the 3. Fair could fill that same role.

 

[dollarbill44]

You nailed it. Despite the fact that we have what looks to be one of the top teams of Boeheim's tenure and are heading solidly towards a #1 seed in the tourney, I have been unable to sleep at night thinking about next year's guard situation.

I have just one question though:

If you don't think that a three-year stater, a McDonald's All-American who has earned some PT this year and a guy who has been practicing against one of the top backcourts in the country all season can get it done next year, why would an incoming recruit, any incoming recruit, who has never had a minute of college game time or practice time all of a sudden going to stabilize the backcourt situation?

Unless you've figured out a way to recruit Derrick Rose to 'Cuse, I just don't see how, given the way you've characterized the state of our backcourt for next year, an incoming high school senior will be able to provide the guarantee of that stability you seek.

Wow, you're already losing sleep over next year's team? If that's true, do you ever sleep given that there are so many things to worry about?

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Wow, you're already losing sleep over next year's team? If that's true, do you ever sleep given that there are so many things to worry about?

S-A-R-C-A-S-M...

 

[dollarbill44]

S-A-R-C-A-S-M...

...doesn't come across the interwebz. That's what emoticons are for. My bad.

 

[bpo57]

Other than this year, when have we ever used more than a 3 guard rotation?

Probably never but that's not the point. In the past we had more viable fourth options than what we will have next year if Waiters does not return. Then if one of those three guards goes down we will have very few if any options in terms of depth.