Anyone watch 60 minutes tonight?

[PhatOrange]

college football's arms race. good segment

Michigan's football program brings in roughly just north of 90 million dollars a year. Athletic department budget - 133 million.

They put in 231 million dollars to renovate the big house.

60/70% of alumni donations are given during football season.

Cal Berkley - 321 million dollars to redo/renovate their stadium.

And by the way regarding Fort Drum - Michigan players trained with Navy Seals out in San Diego last May.

 

[jekelish]

Damn, you beat me to it. Could an admin fold my thread into this one?

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Out of 124 FBS Universities, only 20 or so are "cash positive" or "cash neutral". The rest lose money on athletics.

Did I hear that right?

 

[PhatOrange]

Out of 124 FBS Universities, only 20 or so are "cash positive" or "cash neutral". The rest lose money on athletics.

Did I hear that right?

I think the number was 22 but that's what he said. Cash even or cash positive. crazy.

 

[kyleslamb]

Out of 124 FBS Universities, only 20 or so are "cash positive" or "cash neutral". The rest lose money on athletics.

Did I hear that right?

Yes, but one note on that...

They don't count monies from the university to cover athletics as revenue. That seems sensible when discussing self-supporting athletic departments. But that is highly misleading because athletic departments spend money knowing they have it coming from the general university fund to cover additional costs.

It would be like making $3,000 a month and having $2,900 in expenses, but getting a roommate that's paying $500 a month, so you start spending an extra $500 a month knowing it's additional revenue. In the NCAA accounting, this would show you as losing $400 a month but you only spent the extra money because you knew you had it.

 

[Scooch]

Obscene.

The priorities of universities are totally insane.

 

[kyleslamb]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

 

[WickedOrange]

stock market... housing... college athletics

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

After the 1987 seasons, SU Law School applications increased by about 500. Undergrad was multiples of that. The 1st year law class the next year had like 11 kids from California.

 

[orangecuse]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

Part of even a larger societal issue, when -as you say- according to numerous studies, merely having high level athletics is such a huge factor in one's apparent determination of his/her higher educational goals...

 

[MaxwellCuse]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

Seems to me that Harvard and Yale do pretty well without spending an obscene amount of money on college athletics. They get about 11 times more applicants than they can offer admission to and virtually ALL of those applicants are actually qualified to attend. They also don't hurt for money with endowments that put those at the football factories to shame.

 

[kyleslamb]

Part of even a larger societal issue, when -as you say- according to numerous studies, merely having high level athletics is such a huge factor in one's apparent determination of his/her higher educational goals...

Fair enough. But as you say, that's a society issue. If the universities are there to educate and more resources allow for a better opportunity to do so, then it's still a wise investment to spend on athletics. If you want to say our culture's priorities are out of whack, I would agree. But such is the kind of country where we know the drummer of Aerosmith but don't have a clue who the defense secretary is. The bottom line is that sports, recreation and entertainment pour billions and billions of dollars into the economy because people spend on them. If that helps people want to go to college, it's sad but it's also beneficial in a roundabout way.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Seems to me that Harvard and Yale do pretty well without spending an obscene amount of money on college athletics.

Do not even get me started on those jack wagons.

 

[retro44]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

what???????????

 

[Crusty]

Yes, but one note on that...

They don't count monies from the university to cover athletics as revenue. That seems sensible when discussing self-supporting athletic departments. But that is highly misleading because athletic departments spend money knowing they have it coming from the general university fund to cover additional costs.

It would be like making $3,000 a month and having $2,900 in expenses, but getting a roommate that's paying $500 a month, so you start spending an extra $500 a month knowing it's additional revenue. In the NCAA accounting, this would show you as losing $400 a month but you only spent the extra money because you knew you had it.

What is highly misleading? Their point is that the programs are not self-sustaining. Your point does not refute that so how is that misleading? Operating losses are operating losses and the fact they are paid for with deferred maintenance, asset sales, deferred pension payments or subsidies from other entities etc does not change the basic business model problem.

 

[Crusty]

It's beneficial for the university to do so. Numerous studies have shown athletics success and merely having high-major athletics is a huge factor in student selection of a university. I saw a study that showed Western Kentucky averaged almost 1,000 additional students for each football win in a season, which was an additional $7 million in tuition for the university.

But since tuition does not cover 100% of academic expenses it is hard to see the big advantage.

 

[SmilinBob]

I firmly believe that academia has some very funky accounting rules and can make numbers look exactly the way they want them to look. Nothing and I repeat nothing has gone up as much as tuition percentage wise.

 

[Crusty]

Do not even get me started on those jack wagons.

Jack wagons? I have heard the Ivys called lots of things but never jack wagons.

 

[Millhouse]

college football's arms race. good segment

Michigan's football program brings in roughly just north of 90 million dollars a year. Athletic department budget - 133 million.

They put in 231 million dollars to renovate the big house.

60/70% of alumni donations are given during football season.

Cal Berkley - 321 million dollars to redo/renovate their stadium.

And by the way regarding Fort Drum - Michigan players trained with Navy Seals out in San Diego last May.

i've posted it before but it's a result of not paying players.

if your employer paid you in jackets, weight machines and couches at the facility instead of cash, it's going to cost an employer way more to make you indifferent between that and cash

not denying the arms race component, it's just that the arms race is inflated that much more by not allowing cash payments

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Jack wagons? I have heard the Ivys called lots of things but never jack wagons.

Me and Harvard especially, we got a history.

 

[Fjoinkay]

The conference money with Big Ten networks and such is another aspect of the arms race. I have friends who are die-hard Gamecocks fans and friends who are die-hard LSU Tigers fans who are all excited because now it looks like Bama will win another national championship. This makes sense in today's college football world, but I prefer the days when school loyalty far outweighed loyalty to conference and the success of the conference.

 

[kyleslamb]

What is highly misleading? Their point is that the programs are not self-sustaining. Your point does not refute that so how is that misleading? Operating losses are operating losses and the fact they are paid for with deferred maintenance, asset sales, deferred pension payments or subsidies from other entities etc does not change the basic business model problem.

If you're spending money that you know you're going to have, isn't it misleading to say you're operating at a loss? Like I said above, if I get a roommate and that income isn't technically 'my' income, but I go out and buy a T.V. because I have an extra $500 in my pocket, I didn't spend more money than I had, even though in the NCAA accounting structure, I operated at a loss.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Obscene.

The priorities of universities are totally insane.

Agreed... I love 'Cuse athletics as much as anyone, but I'd rather buy toys for underprivileged kids at Christmastime or donate to a disease fighting charity before I'd EVER give money to a football team.

Sorry, but these big time schools have hundreds of millions and many have billions in endowments... Let them use some of the interest off those accounts to flip the bill for new cleats, snazzy alternate jerseys and such.

I'll keep trying to help the sick and the poor.

And for the record, I realize it's sports such as football and basketball that can be - and often are - in the black while almost all other sports operate at losses, but you can't convince me that interest off a billion dollar account can't pay for part, if not all, of the other teams' needs.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Agreed... I love 'Cuse athletics as much as anyone, but I'd rather buy toys for underprivileged kids at Christmastime or donate to a disease fighting charity before I'd EVER give money to a football team.

Sorry, but these big time schools have hundreds of millions and many have billions in endowments... Let them use some of the interest off those accounts to flip the bill for new cleats, snazzy alternate jerseys and such.

I'll keep trying to help the sick and the poor.

And for the record, I realize it's sports such as football and basketball that can be - and often are - in the black while almost all other sports operate at losses, but you can't convince me that interest off a billion dollar account can't pay for part, if not all, of the other teams' needs.

In other parts of the country the values are almost reversed, and the problem for every school is the arms race nature of the competition. The system is in runaway, and if SU fails to keep up all sports at SU suffer as well as possibly the education that SU can offer regular students. This is insane and destructive and something must happen to create balance in the system again.

 

[Crusty]

If you're spending money that you know you're going to have, isn't it misleading to say you're operating at a loss? Like I said above, if I get a roommate and that income isn't technically 'my' income, but I go out and buy a T.V. because I have an extra $500 in my pocket, I didn't spend more money than I had, even though in the NCAA accounting structure, I operated at a loss.

And if your roommate moves out then what?