Arbs--Can we get an ACC Network Update?

[sutomcat]

A couple of links to look at.

This one talks about fundamental problems the ACC is experiencing trying to set up a network given its lack of available inventory. Suffice it to say the ACC didn't do a good job negotiating their TV contract the last time. To be fair, they were not in a position of strength at that point.

Linkage

This one talks about the effect of cord cutting on conference networks and why the projections for future revenue for the B1G and SEC are hopelessly optimistic.

Linkage

The accfootballrx.com site does a good job following the issues related to the start up of an ACC sports network. It is worth checking out if you care about this kind of stuff...

 

[upperdeck]

the vast majority of areas have 1 internet source.. usually its also the cable source.. how long will it be before TW loses the cable income and then bumps the internet to equal it? you will go from paying 200 for cable/internet/phone and 200 channels to 200 for internet plus all the one off fees and 25 channels..

cutting the cord works if you really dont watch what you dont even know you would watch because you dont have the channel to even check it out.

when the 5% who cut the cord now become the 50% all the other rates can go up, there will be no cost savings in 10 years just less choices.

and while some dont want to admit it the internet has far more issues with buffering.interuptions than cable/sat ever has.

just like cell phones went from $25-50 a month and now with data plans are $100-200..

 

[WoadBlue]

Make no mistake, ESPN doesn't just spread out games to Raycom Sports like it's their preference. The ACC mandated as part of the contract that ESPN subleases games to Raycom. Raycom is an outdated business model, and once one of the biggest players in college sports television, it is totally obsolete in the modern era. It would not exist had the ACC not requested (required) it's television partner to agree to sublease a certain amount of games for Raycom to produce and distribute. It is a handout. ESPN has the means and ability to do everything that Raycom does. ESPN produces and distributes games on local OTA (how do those SEC games get on local tv at 12:30 without Raycom I wonder), and ESPN subleases content they can't distribute to Fox Sports and other outlets.

The fact Raycom Sports is even a business right now is solely because the ACC insisted they be given this handout, or else they would have gone out of business. That's not remotely disputable, it's acknowledged by everyone. Everyone else left Raycom, only the ACC acted like a charity rather than a business.

And it's not without consequence...if Raycom Sports is making enough money to employ 50 people and stay alive as a company, that means they're monetizing well above what they're paying for their subleased content. Without that Raycom stipulation, that revenue would be going directly to ESPN without the Raycom middleman taking their cut. So that middleman takes money out of ESPN's pocket, and it reduces the value of the ACC to ESPN. Which affects what the ACC gets paid. How much? Who knows. $1M per team? $4M per team? Is there a point where it is worth it at all to prop up Raycom for anybody other than the grey haired Carolina country club crowd?

But the ACC did it, either because Swofford's son works at Raycom Sports, or for "old times sake". I think his son working there is more a symptom than a cause. It's the kind of loyalty thing that lets Swofford slap backs and sip mint juleps at Charlotte country clubs and get invited to cotillions by old important families. But it does nothing positive for anyone outside Tobacco road, which is now a major portion of the league, and it's a bad example of the ACC acting like something other than a business with a directive to maximize value to it's members. There was a time that was all conferences, but the ACC clung to it long past anyone else, and we're paying for it.

The ACC made the Raycom deal because for 30 years Raycom helped the ACC - a great deal. If not for Raycom, the ACC never could have been able to add FSU. The ACC is not like the Big Ten or SEC or Pac, all of which will throw over an old friend who earlier saved their butt just to make an extra couple of bucks.

 

[TexanMark]

How did Raycom help add FSU?

Hindsight: The ACC should've looked forward and rolled Raycom into an ACC Network.

 

[sutomcat]

the vast majority of areas have 1 internet source.. usually its also the cable source.. how long will it be before TW loses the cable income and then bumps the internet to equal it? you will go from paying 200 for cable/internet/phone and 200 channels to 200 for internet plus all the one off fees and 25 channels..

cutting the cord works if you really dont watch what you dont even know you would watch because you dont have the channel to even check it out.

when the 5% who cut the cord now become the 50% all the other rates can go up, there will be no cost savings in 10 years just less choices.

and while some dont want to admit it the internet has far more issues with buffering.interuptions than cable/sat ever has.

just like cell phones went from $25-50 a month and now with data plans are $100-200..

Don't know where you are getting your data from, but I don't think it is accurate.

28% of American households have only one wireline cable provider (at least as of March 2014). If you include wireless providers, the number of households with no competition for Internet access is ever lower.

Linkage

Companies can't charge the same prices for Internet access that have been charged for cable because a) there is way more competition and b) all the fees for individual channels no longer apply.

As wireless bandwidth gets bigger and faster, the competition is just going to get tougher. Prices are not going to explode like you are thinking...the US already has really high prices and if anything, they are likely to decrease.

 

[baggerbob]

Make no mistake, ESPN doesn't just spread out games to Raycom Sports like it's their preference. The ACC mandated as part of the contract that ESPN subleases games to Raycom. Raycom is an outdated business model, and once one of the biggest players in college sports television, it is totally obsolete in the modern era. It would not exist had the ACC not requested (required) it's television partner to agree to sublease a certain amount of games for Raycom to produce and distribute. It is a handout. ESPN has the means and ability to do everything that Raycom does. ESPN produces and distributes games on local OTA (how do those SEC games get on local tv at 12:30 without Raycom I wonder), and ESPN subleases content they can't distribute to Fox Sports and other outlets.

The fact Raycom Sports is even a business right now is solely because the ACC insisted they be given this handout, or else they would have gone out of business. That's not remotely disputable, it's acknowledged by everyone. Everyone else left Raycom, only the ACC acted like a charity rather than a business.

And it's not without consequence...if Raycom Sports is making enough money to employ 50 people and stay alive as a company, that means they're monetizing well above what they're paying for their subleased content. Without that Raycom stipulation, that revenue would be going directly to ESPN without the Raycom middleman taking their cut. So that middleman takes money out of ESPN's pocket, and it reduces the value of the ACC to ESPN. Which affects what the ACC gets paid. How much? Who knows. $1M per team? $4M per team? Is there a point where it is worth it at all to prop up Raycom for anybody other than the grey haired Carolina country club crowd?

But the ACC did it, either because Swofford's son works at Raycom Sports, or for "old times sake". I think his son working there is more a symptom than a cause. It's the kind of loyalty thing that lets Swofford slap backs and sip mint juleps at Charlotte country clubs and get invited to cotillions by old important families. But it does nothing positive for anyone outside Tobacco road, which is now a major portion of the league, and it's a bad example of the ACC acting like something other than a business with a directive to maximize value to it's members. There was a time that was all conferences, but the ACC clung to it long past anyone else, and we're paying for it.

That is why its time for Swofford to go, and get ourselves a new man who represents all the schools, not just North Carolina, and Virginia.

 

[Lou_C]

The ACC made the Raycom deal because for 30 years Raycom helped the ACC - a great deal. If not for Raycom, the ACC never could have been able to add FSU. The ACC is not like the Big Ten or SEC or Pac, all of which will throw over an old friend who earlier saved their butt just to make an extra couple of bucks.

Exactly. The ACC fed money to an "old friend" instead of generating more money for it's member institutions. Glad you'll admit it.

Of course, Raycom used to be a big player...everyone was with Raycom or Jefferson Pilot because that was the way the business worked. Those distributors "helped" everyone...the PAC, the SEC, etc. The business has moved on, and the conference shouldn't be in the charity business for "old friends." Raycom as a "friend" has no meaningful significance to FSU, Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville or Notre Dame. You know, half the conference?

On top of that, I wonder if a poll of Clemson and Georgia Tech would find that "old friend" important enough to throw a couple million of their money each year to FOR NO REASON BUT CHARITY. Raycom holds a special place for those handful of Tobacco road folks that run into each other at their wives' fundraisers, or in Swofford's case, at the Thanksgiving table.

This is not the 1970s. Is the ACC still spending as much of it's budget in Charlotte Observer sports page advertising as it was in 1980s? Does it still have a contract with Greensboro Pagers-4-All because that was the provider that used to provide pagers for the ACC execs in the late 80s? Does it still telegram it's messages because it did in 1959, because they don't want to hurt the Raleigh Western Union location?

I don't even think I want to know the answer, because it's probably yes.

That giveaway is not serving the majority of the conference. It was bad business by Swofford, and bad business by the schools that let him get away with it and didn't scrutinize it enough. I absolutely hold FSU, Miami, VT, BC as well as Clemson and GT responsible for letting it happen. Louisville, SU and Pitt inherited it, there's nothing they can do about it.

The deal cannot be defended at all from a business point of view, and this is a business now, whether Swofford and Tobacco Road want to admit it or not. And if they can't admit it, he needs to be replaced now by someone who can be the "bad guy" and cut financially responsible deals.

I think Swofford had a pretty decent run responding to crisis (significantly of his own making) from 2011-2014, I will give him credit for that. But now that he's on a losing streak, it's time for him to walk away with the legacy of having stabilized the ACC, bringing football to nearly credible levels, and assembling the greatest basketball conference of all time. And time for someone to step in and make the necessary business decisions to take the ACC to the next level financially.

 

[gbo]

Exactly. The ACC fed money to an "old friend" instead of generating more money for it's member institutions. Glad you'll admit it.

Of course, Raycom used to be a big player...everyone was with Raycom or Jefferson Pilot because that was the way the business worked. Those distributors "helped" everyone...the PAC, the SEC, etc. The business has moved on, and the conference shouldn't be in the charity business for "old friends." Raycom as a "friend" has no meaningful significance to FSU, Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville or Notre Dame. You know, half the conference?

On top of that, I wonder if a poll of Clemson and Georgia Tech would find that "old friend" important enough to throw a couple million of their money each year to FOR NO REASON BUT CHARITY. Raycom holds a special place for those handful of Tobacco road folks that run into each other at their wives' fundraisers, or in Swofford's case, at the Thanksgiving table.

This is not the 1970s. Is the ACC still spending as much of it's budget in Charlotte Observer sports page advertising as it was in 1980s? Does it still have a contract with Greensboro Pagers-4-All because that was the provider that used to provide pagers for the ACC execs in the late 80s? Does it still telegram it's messages because it did in 1959, because they don't want to hurt the Raleigh Western Union location?

I don't even think I want to know the answer, because it's probably yes.

That giveaway is not serving the majority of the conference. It was bad business by Swofford, and bad business by the schools that let him get away with it and didn't scrutinize it enough. I absolutely hold FSU, Miami, VT, BC as well as Clemson and GT responsible for letting it happen. Louisville, SU and Pitt inherited it, there's nothing they can do about it.

The deal cannot be defended at all from a business point of view, and this is a business now, whether Swofford and Tobacco Road want to admit it or not. And if they can't admit it, he needs to be replaced now by someone who can be the "bad guy" and cut financially responsible deals.

I think Swofford had a pretty decent run responding to crisis (significantly of his own making) from 2011-2014, I will give him credit for that. But now that he's on a losing streak, it's time for him to walk away with the legacy of having stabilized the ACC, bringing football to nearly credible levels, and assembling the greatest basketball conference of all time. And time for someone to step in and make the necessary business decisions to take the ACC to the next level financially.

If something doesn't happen, we will continue to fall further and further behind.

 

[Newhouser]

Exactly. The ACC fed money to an "old friend" instead of generating more money for it's member institutions. Glad you'll admit it.

Of course, Raycom used to be a big player...everyone was with Raycom or Jefferson Pilot because that was the way the business worked. Those distributors "helped" everyone...the PAC, the SEC, etc. The business has moved on, and the conference shouldn't be in the charity business for "old friends." Raycom as a "friend" has no meaningful significance to FSU, Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville or Notre Dame. You know, half the conference?

On top of that, I wonder if a poll of Clemson and Georgia Tech would find that "old friend" important enough to throw a couple million of their money each year to FOR NO REASON BUT CHARITY. Raycom holds a special place for those handful of Tobacco road folks that run into each other at their wives' fundraisers, or in Swofford's case, at the Thanksgiving table.

This is not the 1970s. Is the ACC still spending as much of it's budget in Charlotte Observer sports page advertising as it was in 1980s? Does it still have a contract with Greensboro Pagers-4-All because that was the provider that used to provide pagers for the ACC execs in the late 80s? Does it still telegram it's messages because it did in 1959, because they don't want to hurt the Raleigh Western Union location?

I don't even think I want to know the answer, because it's probably yes.

That giveaway is not serving the majority of the conference. It was bad business by Swofford, and bad business by the schools that let him get away with it and didn't scrutinize it enough. I absolutely hold FSU, Miami, VT, BC as well as Clemson and GT responsible for letting it happen. Louisville, SU and Pitt inherited it, there's nothing they can do about it.

The deal cannot be defended at all from a business point of view, and this is a business now, whether Swofford and Tobacco Road want to admit it or not. And if they can't admit it, he needs to be replaced now by someone who can be the "bad guy" and cut financially responsible deals.

I think Swofford had a pretty decent run responding to crisis (significantly of his own making) from 2011-2014, I will give him credit for that. But now that he's on a losing streak, it's time for him to walk away with the legacy of having stabilized the ACC, bringing football to nearly credible levels, and assembling the greatest basketball conference of all time. And time for someone to step in and make the necessary business decisions to take the ACC to the next level financially.

Based on the same 5 commercials involving southern based fast food chains that they show ad nauseam when watching the ACC, I don't think the new scope of the league is resonating with the bean counters.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Exactly. The ACC fed money to an "old friend" instead of generating more money for it's member institutions. Glad you'll admit it.

Of course, Raycom used to be a big player...everyone was with Raycom or Jefferson Pilot because that was the way the business worked. Those distributors "helped" everyone...the PAC, the SEC, etc. The business has moved on, and the conference shouldn't be in the charity business for "old friends." Raycom as a "friend" has no meaningful significance to FSU, Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville or Notre Dame. You know, half the conference?

On top of that, I wonder if a poll of Clemson and Georgia Tech would find that "old friend" important enough to throw a couple million of their money each year to FOR NO REASON BUT CHARITY. Raycom holds a special place for those handful of Tobacco road folks that run into each other at their wives' fundraisers, or in Swofford's case, at the Thanksgiving table.

This is not the 1970s. Is the ACC still spending as much of it's budget in Charlotte Observer sports page advertising as it was in 1980s? Does it still have a contract with Greensboro Pagers-4-All because that was the provider that used to provide pagers for the ACC execs in the late 80s? Does it still telegram it's messages because it did in 1959, because they don't want to hurt the Raleigh Western Union location?

I don't even think I want to know the answer, because it's probably yes.

That giveaway is not serving the majority of the conference. It was bad business by Swofford, and bad business by the schools that let him get away with it and didn't scrutinize it enough. I absolutely hold FSU, Miami, VT, BC as well as Clemson and GT responsible for letting it happen. Louisville, SU and Pitt inherited it, there's nothing they can do about it.

The deal cannot be defended at all from a business point of view, and this is a business now, whether Swofford and Tobacco Road want to admit it or not. And if they can't admit it, he needs to be replaced now by someone who can be the "bad guy" and cut financially responsible deals.

I think Swofford had a pretty decent run responding to crisis (significantly of his own making) from 2011-2014, I will give him credit for that. But now that he's on a losing streak, it's time for him to walk away with the legacy of having stabilized the ACC, bringing football to nearly credible levels, and assembling the greatest basketball conference of all time. And time for someone to step in and make the necessary business decisions to take the ACC to the next level financially.

I live in Charlotte, one of the fastest growing cities in the country. Its now the number 2-3 financial center after NY and SF- a little known fact. What's happening here is a microcosm of what's taking place in the ACC.
The attitude you've described is very prevalent in Charlotte as new transplants move in everyday from the NE, Mid-West, and SW. The locals are being swamped with the new arrivals and are struggling to maintain some semblance of the "old order", which often leaves them in a reactionary mode. Doing business with them usually involves breaking through old relationships and connections, but whats happening more and more is that the transplants are simply moving in and doing it their way, as opposed to accommodating the good ol' boys.
Swofford's way of doing business is old school Southern, and the ACC is now on a different trajectory. He signed that prior deal based on those old precepts- most of which have changed or are evolving daily.
IMO, this conference has the most upside and potential of any other, and if we can survive the folly of that last deal and make it to an ACCN in whatever form it takes, the sky will be the limit. The biggest issue will be when Swofford retires or is pushed out- then what kind of Commish will take his place? We need a forward-thinker, not one with a "this is the way we've always done it" kind of mentally.
The South is and has changed, and the ACC better be aware and prepared for all that's coming down the road.

"Saying you're a realist is just a lazy way of being negative". - Zig Ziglar

 

[Toga]

I live in Charlotte, one of the fastest growing cities in the country. Its now the number 2-3 financial center after NY and SF- a little known fact. What's happening here is a microcosm of what's taking place in the ACC.
The attitude you've described is very prevalent in Charlotte as new transplants move in everyday from the NE, Mid-West, and SW. The locals are being swamped with the new arrivals and are struggling to maintain some semblance of the "old order", which often leaves them in a reactionary mode. Doing business with them usually involves breaking through old relationships and connections, but whats happening more and more is that the transplants are simply moving in and doing it their way, as opposed to accommodating the good ol' boys.
Swofford's way of doing business is old school Southern, and the ACC is now on a different trajectory. He signed that prior deal based on those old precepts- most of which have changed or are evolving daily.
IMO, this conference has the most upside and potential of any other, and if we can survive the folly of that last deal and make it to an ACCN in whatever form it takes, the sky will be the limit. The biggest issue will be when Swofford retires or is pushed out- then what kind of Commish will take his place? We need a forward-thinker, not one with a "this is the way we've always done it" kind of mentally.
The South is and has changed, and the ACC better be aware and prepared for all that's coming down the road.

"Saying you're a realist is just a lazy way of being negative". - Zig Ziglar

On the whole I think Swofford has done a good job. This Raycom arrangement (including his son working there) has never been satisfactorily explained other than the good old boy / Carolina thing - and that's not a good reason.

 

[gbo]

On the whole I think Swofford has done a good job. This Raycom arrangement (including his son working there) has never been satisfactorily explained other than the good old boy / Carolina thing - and that's not a good reason.

I'd be hard pressed to find a single Clemson fan who likes Swofford or thinks he's done a good job.

 

[TexanMark]

BTW, where is Arbs?

arbitragegls was last seen: Mar 15, 2016

 

[KaiserUEO]

BTW, where is Arbs?

arbitragegls was last seen: Mar 15, 2016

im assuming that's a typo and it should read 'Mar 15, 2015'

because if its not...good lord its only been a week!!!!

can people go to the Caribbean?? Aspen?? wherever and choose not to post for a week or so, without everybody getting their panties all up in a bunch???

 

[MadNY3]

im assuming that's a typo and it should read 'Mar 15, 2015'

because if its not...good lord its only been a week!!!!

can people go to the Caribbean?? Aspen?? wherever and choose not to post for a week or so, without everybody getting their panties all up in a bunch???

Whispers, whispers everywhere indicate, and I am hearing this from a good source, that Arbs has egg on his face and is too embarrassed to post. Rest assured, it's good to be on SyracuseFan.com!!!

 

[TexanMark]

Mad got it...but flew over Kaiser's Head

 

[KaiserUEO]

Mad got it...but flew over Kaiser's Head

admittedly, I did not think you were smart enough to pull that off.

wondering where somebody is...after only a week, is more your speed.

 

[Btstimpy]

Anything at all to report? Is it DOA or is there some hope that it can be established in the near future? Thanks for any information you can provide.

I'm not ARB, but something to report is that NC State is soliciting proposals for a company to design a new on campus studio for them meeting the standards of the upcoming ACC Network. If any of you know someone here that would like to bid on the project, here is the link:

https://facilities.ofa.ncsu.edu/category/ads/

There is a bidders meeting on March 30, and they want the bid by April 11. So that tends to indicate that they know who they want to win. Completion is by Spring of 2018.

 

[Alsacs]

Taking shots at Arb is not right. The guy brought info to the board. While most of the stuff he posted was from stuff in the media he never held himself out as this insider.

His info was good as it brought the information out there to the attention of SU fans.

If he posted stuff it did tend to drive interest.

 

[Alsacs]

On the issue of an ACCN. As I said I don't see it happening right now as ESPN is really feeling the hit of cordcutters.

ESPN is already having to tighten its belt for these Big Ten rights currently up for bid. ESPN couldn't afford to spend on the Barclay's Premiere League and their current ESPN boss John Skipper loves soccer and wanted it on ESPN.

ESPN can't afford to waste money on an ACCN. Until the ACC buys back the 3rd tier rights from Fox Sports an ACC network is never going to happen. The additional 45 million from ESPN is a nice fall back though.

 

[Toga]

On the issue of an ACCN. As I said I don't see it happening right now as ESPN is really feeling the hit of cordcutters.

ESPN is already having to tighten its belt for these Big Ten rights currently up for bid. ESPN couldn't afford to spend on the Barclay's Premiere League and their current ESPN boss John Skipper loves soccer and wanted it on ESPN.

ESPN can't afford to waste money on an ACCN. Until the ACC buys back the 3rd tier rights from Fox Sports an ACC network is never going to happen. The additional 45 million from ESPN is a nice fall back though.

Refresh my memory - Fox has 3rd tier rights? Why?

 

[Alsacs]

Refresh my memory - Fox has 3rd tier rights? Why?

ESPN bought all the ACC rights but because of the Raycom relationship the ACC had ESPN sell 3rd tier rights to Raycom. Raycom has these games for the ACC Network games but then Raycom subleased some of these 3rd tier rights to Fox Sports. Mainly for their Fox Sports South station in NC.

Now Fox Sports owns those rights and that is the weekly football game that is syndicated out nationally not on the ACCN and a bunch of basketball games that aren't chosen by ESPN.

For a ACC network to be established ESPN would require the ACC buy back those rights and it won't be easy because Fox has the leverage and Raycom can't make them do anything. Thus, if the ACC wanted them back it would have to come out of its own pockets.

This is the stuff that the SEC had to do to get ESPN on-board for the SECN. The SEC bought back all their individual teams 3rd tier rights and gave them to ESPN as part of the deal for the SECN.

 

[Toga]

I hate Raycom. It's like having your leach of a cousin sleeping with the enemy.

 

[TexanMark]

admittedly, I did not think you were smart enough to pull that off.

wondering where somebody is...after only a week, is more your speed.

Just bring me a beer next time...

 

[Btstimpy]

ESPN bought all the ACC rights but because of the Raycom relationship the ACC had ESPN sell 3rd tier rights to Raycom. Raycom has these games for the ACC Network games but then Raycom subleased some of these 3rd tier rights to Fox Sports. Mainly for their Fox Sports South station in NC.

Now Fox Sports owns those rights and that is the weekly football game that is syndicated out nationally not on the ACCN and a bunch of basketball games that aren't chosen by ESPN.

For a ACC network to be established ESPN would require the ACC buy back those rights and it won't be easy because Fox has the leverage and Raycom can't make them do anything. Thus, if the ACC wanted them back it would have to come out of its own pockets.

This is the stuff that the SEC had to do to get ESPN on-board for the SECN. The SEC bought back all their individual teams 3rd tier rights and gave them to ESPN as part of the deal for the SECN.

I still think that the ACC can overcome the games sold to Fox by Raycom by adding conference games. Raycom sells to Fox 17 football games and 25 basketball games per year.

The ACC could increase the men's basketball conference schedule to 22 games instead of 18 and recover all of the basketball games. It could increase to 9 conference football games and recover 7 of the football games.

Fox could then continue to show its games like it does. I don't think that's all bad.