Are the coaches always right?

[SWC75]

In 1986, at the beginning of the football season, our starting tailback was Harold Gayden. The coaching staff raved about him. But what the fans saw was a player who had great moves but started making them before he hit the hole, with the hole often closing before he got there. He also had a tendency to fumble and we lost some games because of it. The guy behind Gayden was Robert Drummond, a local kid who had gone to Jamesville-DeWitt. that made him popular with the local fans and Gayden's problems made him even more popular. Radio call-in shows and letters to the editor, (the social media of the time) called for Gayden to be benched in favor of Drummond. The more people demanded it, the more Coach Mac and his staff seemed determined to shove Gayden out there to prove they were right. Finally, he'd fumbled one too many times and they sent Drummond in. I recall he fumbled, too, shortly afterwards. But they left him in and he proved to be a more reliable back, hitting the hole quickly, initiating contact and falling forward when tackled. And that first fumble wasn't repeated. Gayden had averaged 3.3 yards per carry, Drummond 4.5 the next year Drummond was paired with Michael Owens and they both averaged better than 6 yards a carry while rushing for a combined 1,370 yards as the team went 11-0. It seemed that in this instance, the fans were right.

1986 Syracuse Orange Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

1986 Syracuse Orange Stats

www.sports-reference.com

1987 Syracuse Orange Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

1987 Syracuse Orange Stats

www.sports-reference.com

Yes, the coaches have more knowledge of the game. Yes, they see things the fans don't. Yes, the fans aren't at practice or in the weight, locker or meeting rooms. But they do see the finished product and the make judgements based on what they see, just as they would watching a movie, a play, an opera, a concert, a ballet etc. And if what they see doesn't seem good enough or something else they see seems better, they are going to say so. Must they attend the rehearsals of the play or the singing lessons or be on the movie set to make a judgment about what they saw?

Rather than arguing about individual players, please address this central issue. Do the fans have a right to their opinion?

 

[sufandu]

The coaches can't always be right for one simple reason, they're human. They make mistakes.

 

[Apdaly]

Fans can absolutely be right, and coaches can be wrong. I think the big issues come when coaches can’t handle being questioned on their personnel decisions. You can tell the tone when they get upset by it. Often condescending to reporters that ask questions.
On the flip side many fans need to recognize that players take time to grow and one bad game or one bad series doesn’t mean bench a kid. If they are the better option have to let them play through it. I remember many calling for Shrader to get hooked first qtr of FSU. Don’t want to turn this into a Shrader vs devito thread. Just stating sometimes coaches do know more than the fans, and we shouldn’t as fans rush to judgement on a player with out more data points.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Gayden was academically ineligible in 85, so Drummond got the starting job by default.

Gayden came back in 86, but he wasn't the same. The year off really hurt him. He did outplay Jaime Covington in 1983 and 1984. And he scored against Nebraska.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Only person who is ever right is my wife. That’s it

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think sometimes coaches have an ideal for what they want and when there is a player that doesn't fit that they are reluctant to go away from their ideal to fit their system to the player. It has happened at QB here a few times.

RJ Anderson was the better choice for the 2001 team.
Opening up the O was the better choice for the 2011 team.
Hunt was the better choice for the 2013 team.
Shrader was the better choice for the 2021 team.

In each case the HC was hesitant to pull the trigger. You can make the argument that they weren't ready to start the season, but in each case the HC waited too long IMO to make the move.

 

[kcsu]

Of course the coaches make mistakes. The fewer the better and they keep their jobs.

 

[Apdaly]

Another thing I’ve often heard talking with coaches is this notion that the team will be their best if player A plays and reaches their full potential. Sort of the old adage of not letting greatness get in the way of good. It’s a saying for a reason right?

 

[All4SU]

If a kid consistently performs better in practice, the coaches will put a great deal of importance on that. Fans only see games. If Gayden was regularly outperforming Drummond in practice, it would be very hard to set that aside and gauge it only on game performance. I don’t think that’s a coach getting it wrong. That’s just reality.

 

[SWC75]

If a kid consistently performs better in practice, the coaches will put a great deal of importance on that. Fans only see games. If Gayden was regularly outperforming Drummond in practice, it would be very hard to set that aside and gauge it only on game performance. I don’t think that’s a coach getting it wrong. That’s just reality.

I have a theory that coaches actually prefer practices to games because they are in control of what happens in practices and can't be judged by the fans and media for what goes on there therefore they develop an affection for players that work hard and practice well, (and why not?) but undervalue players who don't shine in practice but perform well in the games, especially when fans and the media are vocal about that should be the guy playing.

 

[baggerbob]

I have a theory that coaches actually prefer practices to games because they are in control of what happens in practices and can't be judged by the fans and media for what goes on there therefore they develop an affection for players that work hard and practice well, 9and why not?) but undervalue players who don't shine in practice but perform well in the games, especially when fans and the media are vocal about that should be the guy playing.

From what I have heard through the years, Jim Brown wasn't a good practice player, but game time he was always ready.

 

[Apdaly]

Some kids handle pressure better than others. Be it physical pressure or mental. When the game is on the line who elevates play and who shrinks. Hard to simulate that in practice of any sport. But coaches need to account for it when it happens in games. To steal a line from Dino. Once or twice can be a happening but after that it’s just who the player is.
This isn’t in reference to any particular player or sport btw. I know in my practices I try and put as much on the line in competition drills to simulate pressure but it’s not the same…

 

[blizz]

Coaches are idiots. Nick Saban. Bozo. Anyone could win with his players, a pen, and a couple of bar room napkins.

 

[All4SU]

I have a theory that coaches actually prefer practices to games because they are in control of what happens in practices and can't be judged by the fans and media for what goes on there therefore they develop an affection for players that work hard and practice well, (and why not?) but undervalue players who don't shine in practice but perform well in the games, especially when fans and the media are vocal about that should be the guy playing.

I think it’s that. Plus, if you practice all week, we get to see how a kid performs and takes instruction for let’s say 15 hours. But you want to evaluate him only on how he performs for two hours.

I’m guessing this is true in almost every profession: the actor who is great in auditions and rehearsal but tightens up when the curtain is raised; the salesperson who is great in the office, but put him or her in front of the client, and they can’t close; the teacher who creates great lesson plans, but is a babbling mess in front of a class.

Ultimately, you’re right, their eventual evaluation will be determined by how they actually perform. But as a boss, or a coach, you’re going to delay that decision quite a bit until you have incontrovertible evidence in repeated situations.

 

[Chip]

Remember in 2005 (yes that year, sorry) when Rich Rod opened against us with Adam Bednarik and QB and Jason Colson at RB?

He closed that year against Georgia in the Sugar Bowl with Pat White at QB and Steve Slaton at RB.

Football coaches often play it safe until they're forced out of it. Either by injury or lack of production.

 

[TheCusian]

Coaches have more information, more experience. They are far better judges of players than fans. So they are right at a higher % than you or I would ever be. Fans are at a disadvantage.

That doesn't mean they are never wrong or we are never right.

I'm also really partial to the idea that coaches sometimes want a player to exhibit more than just x or y. They are in the business of drawing out the best of a kid over the course of their career within the system they are trying to implement. It's getting the timing right.

So, for example - maybe Dino wanted Tucker to be better at blitz pickup before playing and thought he had time with guys in front of him who may not be the runner Sean could be, but are more complete at the time the decision was made. A sensible decision and a carrot for Sean to improve as a young player that will serve him better here and in the next phase of his career.

Kadary works too. JB wants a series of things to be right before a starting role is given, even if the player displays better skills in some things than the current starter. In that striving to earn the PG1 spot - Kadary becomes a better player and is prepared for the next phase of his career. Fans howl - but it's the coaches job to to win while developing the players and the team as the whole.

And sometimes, coaches make mistakes or are too high on their own farts to see clearly. But, as these examples point to - even that can be hard to judge given the lack of access.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

No.

 

[cuse62]

Look at Tom Brady, went to Michigan out of high school. He was from California. Lasted to the sixth round of the draft. It not just coaches that make mistakes.

Our own Eric Dungey didnt have any PAC 12 offers.

 

[money3189]

I think sometimes coaches have an ideal for what they want and when there is a player that doesn't fit that they are reluctant to go away from their ideal to fit their system to the player. It has happened at QB here a few times.

RJ Anderson was the better choice for the 2001 team.
Opening up the O was the better choice for the 2011 team.
Hunt was the better choice for the 2013 team.
Shrader was the better choice for the 2021 team.

In each case the HC was hesitant to pull the trigger. You can make the argument that they weren't ready to start the season, but in each case the HC waited too long IMO to make the move.

Sure. You can say that but do you know how many times coaches have kept a QB in when they were close to making a switch? We dont know how many times a coach stayed with a QB and it ended up paying off.

 

[money3189]

I have a theory that coaches actually prefer practices to games because they are in control of what happens in practices and can't be judged by the fans and media for what goes on there therefore they develop an affection for players that work hard and practice well, (and why not?) but undervalue players who don't shine in practice but perform well in the games, especially when fans and the media are vocal about that should be the guy playing.

They are not making decisions based on what fans or media think. They don’t care. They are gonna play the player they consistently trust. It gives them a better feel for how they are going to perform in a game. Guys that show flashes are unpredictable. It’s too risky to experiment in games and throw kids out there you can’t trust. It effects the whole unit. In most cases the way you practice is the way you play on game day. That’s the basic standard that every coach has to go by. If they don’t go by that then they won’t be coaching very long.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

One thing that is tough to stomach as a fan is seeing a player that is clearly a leader on the field after sitting for a while behind seemingly lesser talent. It’s not hard to see when someone leads on the football field.