Are there any Pro-Shafer's left?

[rrlbees]

OK...Coyle is on the clock... I really hope that you and BPO and Crusty (and others) are correct that Coyle has some $ to work with... When I read about LSU paying 15 MM to buy out Miles, it feels like we are bringing a Yugo to Le Mans...

Boosters are paying for his buyout.

 

[GoSU96]

OK...Coyle is on the clock...

I really hope that you and BPO and Crusty (and others) are correct that Coyle has some $ to work with...

When I read about LSU paying 15 MM to buy out Miles, it feels like we are bringing a Yugo to Le Mans...

Why do you care what LSU is doing?

It's like worrying about what the Giants are paying.

 

[Chip]

Why do you care what LSU is doing?

It's like worrying about what the Giants are paying.

We have to play at LSU in 2017.

If we don't win that game then the new coach, and Coyle, are failures.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Why do you care what LSU is doing?

It's like worrying about what the Giants are paying.

Yeah, you're right. We never play them and certainly don't have to worry about competing with them.

Are you just trying to be difficult?

 

[GoSU96]

Yeah, you're right. We never play them and certainly don't have to worry about competing with them.

Are you just trying to be difficult?

SU is not in the SEC West, what they do is irrelevant.

 

[SUATO92]

SU is not in the SEC West, what they do is irrelevant.

Don't you know that a one off OOC game should determine the strategy for our program...surely you can see the logic in that thinking. /sarcasm

I feel like one specious argument after the other get offered, i.e. we change coaches every three years or this won't work our like our last MAC hire, and it get passed like a baton to the next genius in the relay race. It's truly bizzaro world with some of these people!

You're putting up the good fight for logic...

 

[Forza Azzurri]

SU is not in the SEC West, what they do is irrelevant.

Right.

And the 3MM that Houston just gave Herman and the 3MM Memphis just gave Fuente also have nothing to do with us since they are in the AAC, right?

None of it sets a compensation bar for us.

None of it impacts SU in any way.

Gotcha.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Does BC impact us?

Does Clemson or FSU impact us?

Just want to understand what our box is and who we need to worry about.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Don't you know that a one off OOC game should determine the strategy for our program...surely you can see the logic in that thinking. /sarcasm

I feel like one specious argument after the other get offered, i.e. we change coaches every three years or this won't work our like our last MAC hire, and it get passed like a baton to the next genius in the relay race. It's truly bizzaro world with some of these people!

You're putting up the good fight for logic...

Don't you know that a one off OOC game should determine the strategy for our program...surely you can see the logic in that thinking. /sarcasm

I feel like one specious argument after the other get offered, i.e. we change coaches every three years or this won't work our like our last MAC hire, and it get passed like a baton to the next genius in the relay race. It's truly bizzaro world with some of these people!

You're putting up the good fight for logic...

Here comes the wind-up and the delivery...oh, ATO swings and completely misses the point.../sarcasm

 

[SUATO92]

Here comes the wind-up and the delivery...oh, ATO swings and completely misses the point.../sarcasm

When did we start talking baseball? Guess I'm missing your point here as well. :blah:

 

[GoSU96]

Right.

And the 3MM that Houston just gave Herman and the 3MM Memphis just gave Fuente also have nothing to do with us since they are in the AAC, right?

None of it sets a compensation bar for us.

None of it impacts SU in any way.

Gotcha.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Does BC impact us?

Does Clemson or FSU impact us?

Just want to understand what our box is and who we need to worry about.

Did you mention the AAC or ACC before? No, you referenced what LSU was doing.

I think you answered your own question. What (all) programs in the ACC do is relevant, you can argue what Houston and Memphis are doing might be a good reference for what to pay a successful coach for a "keep him" extension.

None of that is the SEC West.

The only programs that swim in those waters are Clemson and FSU, and Clemson might be the only one that can match dollar of dollar.

 

[NC'cusefan]

I understand why Coyle fired Shafer but I still like the guy and he seems like a good man that is well respected.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Did you mention the AAC or ACC before? No, you referenced what LSU was doing.

I think you answered your own question. What (all) programs in the ACC do is relevant, you can argue what Houston and Memphis are doing might be a good reference for what to pay a successful coach for a "keep him" extension.

None of that is the SEC West.

The only programs that swim in those waters are Clemson and FSU, and Clemson might be the only one that can match dollar of dollar.

What LSU does actually does impact us, if only insofar as to keep raising the bar...

And my primary point was that, if they can raise 15-20MM to simply buy out a guy's contract, it shows how outclassed we are financially...

For someone who became a fan during the dark days of the 70s and then enjoyed the program's resurgence and relevance during the late eighties and the nineties, it is somewhat depressing to think that financial constraints will be a huge hurdle to overcome to get back to those rarified heights...

 

[GoSU96]

What LSU does actually does impact us, if only insofar as to keep raising the bar...

And my primary point was that, if they can raise 15-20MM to simply buy out a guy's contract, it shows how outclassed we are financially...

Yeah, if we were trying to compete in the SEC, but we aren't.

 

[Scooch]

What LSU does actually does impact us, if only insofar as to keep raising the bar...

And my primary point was that, if they can raise 15-20MM to simply buy out a guy's contract, it shows how outclassed we are financially...

Sure, but what the LSU's of the college football world do is not really worth worrying about. SU has been, and will always be, a notch or two below the maniacal heavy hitters of the south and midwest.

AAC school's paying their coaches $3 million is much more relevant to SU. And I've yet to see evidence that if we have a coach with similar success that we wouldn't do that. We were prepared to pay Skip Holtz and Randy Edsall $2.5 million out of the gate eight years ago.

 

[GoSU96]

Sure, but what the LSU's of the college football world do is not really worth worrying about. SU has been, and will always be, a notch or two below the maniacal heavy hitters of the south and midwest.

AAC school's paying their coaches $3 million is much more relevant to SU. And I've yet to see evidence that if we have a coach with similar success that we wouldn't do that. We were prepared to pay Skip Holtz and Randy Edsall $2.5 million out of the gate eight years ago.

Yep

 

[Scooch]

Yep

There are so many legitimate things to be concerned with when it comes to SU football, it makes me laugh how many people focus on outliers, edge cases, and phantoms. But it's a message board, so I guess that's what happens.

 

[NKR1978]

When we run a sweep or a bubble screen, the whole defense is in front of the ball carrier.

Imagine how nice it will be to have an offensive coordinator realize that sweeps and bubble screens might not be a great play with our personnel. Or any of the other weird formations that we do on first down that seems to give us a 2nd and 12 situation on our first set of downs.

 

[reedny]

Imagine how nice it will be to have an offensive coordinator realize that sweeps and bubble screens might not be a great play with our personnel. Or any of the other weird formations that we do on first down that seems to give us a 2nd and 12 situation on our first set of downs.

Unfortunately, there's a reason why we run those plays: we don't have an OL that can support a conventional ground attack against most of the D lines we face in conference. So we use triple O to get outside the box and give our QB some options. If the DE/LB bites on the QB he pitches. Or if the safeties come up, he can throw over the coverage. It's a survival strategy that can be effective with our (limited) personnel.

Bubble screens don't work for us most of the time ... we struggle to block. Our ball carriers can't get to the edge, are not big enough to shed tacklers and/or aren't fast enough to run by defenders unless they have a good lead. Yet other teams routinely bubble screen us for chunk plays. They have bigger, faster receivers that are good blockers on the boundary, RB's that are bigger and can break tackles and outrun our defense. We played our hearts out against Virginia, Pitt, FSU and Clemson but came up short... and those were the successes. We looked silly against USF, LV and NCState.

There's a simple answer to all this that has nothing to do with coaches or scheme -- bring in better players. Bigger, faster WR's and running backs is a minimum. And our lines on both sides of the ball, while some talent is sprinkled in (e.g., Clark on D), are paper thin and struggle in the aCC. All this hubub about "tackling" is a mirage ... the players we're trying to tackle are bigger and faster. Of course we can't tackle them.

 

[TheCusian]

Unfortunately, there's a reason why we run those plays: we don't have an OL that can support a conventional ground attack against most of the D lines we face in conference. So we use triple O to get outside the box and give our QB some options. If the DE/LB bites on the QB he pitches. Or if the safeties come up, he can throw over the coverage. It's a survival strategy that can be effective with our (limited) personnel. Bubble screens don't work for us most of the time ... we struggle to block. Our ball carriers can't get to the edge, are not big enough to shed tacklers and/or aren't fast enough to run by defenders unless they have a good lead. Yet other teams routinely bubble screen us for chunk plays. They have bigger, faster receivers that are good blockers on the boundary, RB's that are bigger and can break tackles and outrun our defense. We played our hearts out against Virginia, Pitt, FSU and Clemson but came up short... and those were the successes. We looked silly against USF, LV and NCState. There's a simple answer to all this that has nothing to do with coaches or scheme -- bring in better players. Bigger, faster WR's and running backs is a minimum. And our lines on both sides of the ball, while some talent is sprinkled in (e.g., Clark on D), are paper thin and struggle in the aCC. All this hubub about "tackling" is a mirage ... the players we're trying to tackle are bigger and faster. Of course we can't tackle them.

All of those issues are directly tied to coaching, scheme, and talent. All of which could get better with a new coach and a fresh start.

 

[storange]

All of those issues are directly tied to coaching, scheme, and talent. All of which could get better with a new coach and a fresh start.

or worse

 

[TheCusian]

or worse

Of course. Risk is risky.

 

[Alsacs]

What LSU does actually does impact us, if only insofar as to keep raising the bar...

And my primary point was that, if they can raise 15-20MM to simply buy out a guy's contract, it shows how outclassed we are financially...

For someone who became a fan during the dark days of the 70s and then enjoyed the program's resurgence and relevance during the late eighties and the nineties, it is somewhat depressing to think that financial constraints will be a huge hurdle to overcome to get back to those rarified heights...

If LSU can raise that 15-20 million to buyout the contract it means LSU has boosters who want a change at HC and will pay for it. We all know SU doesn't have a T. Boone Pickens booster. Obviously other schools do.

The financial constraints are not really there for SU. We can afford to pay a HC market value. Syracuse University is not financially restrained. In the SEC football matters more than anything. I have no problem with it not being the same way at Syracuse.

Syracuse shouldn't be compared to USC, Texas, LSU, Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan type schools we should be paying Pittsburgh, Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina type schools are investing. Syracuse has gone for the cheaper model coach recently P, Gerg, Marrone, Shafer were below average to average HCs and were paid that.

 

[Scooch]

or worse

This is definitely the motto of some people here...

 

[reedny]

All of those issues are directly tied to coaching, scheme, and talent. All of which could get better with a new coach and a fresh start.

Sure, coaching and scheme help, especially if they're using scheme to mask a talent deficit. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of watching our mighty-mites attempting arm-tackles on 230-240 pound RB's.

I think it's time we got some bigger, faster players. I'm no FB expert, but it seems like that just might give us a better chance on the field.

 

[TheCusian]

Sure, coaching and scheme help, especially if they're using scheme to mask a talent deficit. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of watching our mighty-mites attempting arm-tackles on 230-240 pound RB's. I think it's time we got some bigger, faster players. I'm no FB expert, but it seems like that just might give us a better chance on the field.

I'm not advocating for less talent and smaller guys. I'm saying a new staff can mean a fresh start on the recruiting trail.