Are we recruiting any blue chip PGs for 2017?

[Alsacs]

I'm not convinced FH is a PG. His ball handling is weak for the position, he turns it over or makes horrible decisions far too often and he really can't beat a quality defender off the bounce. I think he's more a SG and it's too bad we don't have a legit PG here now or coming any time soon.

He doesn't shoot well enough to be a SG. He can be a rotation PG but right now he has the keys for the next 2 years which is insane.

 

[Jasoncuse]

He doesn't shoot well enough to be a SG. He can be a rotation PG but right now he has the keys for the next 2 years which is insane.

That's the thing. He's not good enough as a PG to actually run a team, yet I think his skills would be more suited as an off-guard if the shot can improve. His handle and decision making have never looked like they've fit at PG, IMO.

Basically, he's a shooting guard that can't shoot well enough or a PG that isn't a good ball handler and floor general. Quite the conundrum.

 

[RF2044]

That's the thing. He's not good enough as a PG to actually run a team, yet I think his skills would be more suited as an off-guard if the shot can improve. His handle and decision making have never looked like they've fit at PG, IMO.

Basically, he's a shooting guard that can't shoot well enough or a PG that isn't a good ball handler and floor general. Quite the conundrum.

About a week ago, I posted that his best bet might be as a versatile combo guard in the mold of Triche. He's got the size, and he showed improved shooting. Maybe he'd be better off as a complimentary ball handler / passer than as a point. I agree with your point--he just doesn't seem to have a feel for playing lead guard.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is his 4th year of playing ball. Two at Longwood, two at Stony Brook.

Ah, I messed up thinking about eligibility. I just looked for senior PGs with decent A:TO ratios and could shoot FTs and 3s. There aren't many, but I'm sure the staff has a better handle on potential guys than I do.

 

[iommi]

About a week ago, I posted that his best bet might be as a versatile combo guard in the mold of Triche. He's got the size, and he showed improved shooting. Maybe he'd be better off as a complimentary ball handler / passer than as a point. I agree with your point--he just doesn't seem to have a feel for playing lead guard.

I'll add one more issue with Howard: he's still not strong enough. I don't give a crap what anyone says, he's still too weak to finish inside. He has the size (height) but needs the strength.

Speaking of strength, if Moyer doesn't look jacked next fall, we need to evaluate what's going on. Every year, we hear how guys have gained muscle. Then I look at a Tyler Lydon and his upper body has no definition. He may have gained weight, but Lydon's upper body doesn't look more muscular.

 

[orange79]

I'll add one more issue with Howard: he's still not strong enough. I don't give a crap what anyone says, he's still too weak to finish inside. He has the size (height) but needs the strength.

Speaking of strength, if Moyer doesn't look jacked next fall, we need to evaluate what's going on. Every year, we hear how guys have gained muscle. Then I look at a Tyler Lydon and his upper body has no definition. He may have gained weight, but Lydon's upper body doesn't look more muscular.

 

[iommi]

Noted workout warrior Devo will whip that department into shape.

 

[Francis03]

I'll add one more issue with Howard: he's still not strong enough. I don't give a crap what anyone says, he's still too weak to finish inside. He has the size (height) but needs the strength.

Speaking of strength, if Moyer doesn't look jacked next fall, we need to evaluate what's going on. Every year, we hear how guys have gained muscle. Then I look at a Tyler Lydon and his upper body has no definition. He may have gained weight, but Lydon's upper body doesn't look more muscular.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'll add one more issue with Howard: he's still not strong enough. I don't give a crap what anyone says, he's still too weak to finish inside. He has the size (height) but needs the strength.

Speaking of strength, if Moyer doesn't look jacked next fall, we need to evaluate what's going on. Every year, we hear how guys have gained muscle. Then I look at a Tyler Lydon and his upper body has no definition. He may have gained weight, but Lydon's upper body doesn't look more muscular.

To my eyes Lydon is slower moving around and slower off his feet jumping now.

 

[iommi]

To my eyes Lydon is slower moving around and slower off his feet jumping now.

Yep, I don't think he gained good weight. I know people said he worked hard on his game all summer but I think it was literally the G-Mac workout, fishing (and in Lydon's case- hunting). He clearly is less explosive and nimble.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Yep, I don't think he gained good weight. I know people said he worked hard on his game all summer but I think it was literally the G-Mac workout, fishing (and in Lydon's case- hunting). He clearly is less explosive and nimble.

Yup. At H they showed a clip from a taped ACC media day with JB/Gaudio featuring Lydon. The showed him driving @UNC and no way is he that quick to the basket this year.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Ah, I messed up thinking about eligibility. I just looked for senior PGs with decent A:TO ratios and could shoot FTs and 3s. There aren't many, but I'm sure the staff has a better handle on potential guys than I do.

I'm sure there will be plenty. But as we're learning this year, they also have to quickly adapt to the zone or it could be a rough transition.

 

[Newhouser]

I think next year Battle will have to share the PG spot with Howard. We don't need Nate Archibald - we need some version of Silent G.

 

[AZOrange]

Yep, I don't think he gained good weight. I know people said he worked hard on his game all summer but I think it was literally the G-Mac workout, fishing (and in Lydon's case- hunting). He clearly is less explosive and nimble.

No way. Come on now

 

[RF2044]

I think next year Battle will have to share the PG spot with Howard. We don't need Nate Archibald - we need some version of Silent G.

Let's just say for argument's sake that both Howard / Battle return [no real reason to think otherwise]. These two will occupy two of the three perimeter positions. But that means that there's a hole at whichever position these two don' fill.

Said hole would need to be filled by an incoming recruit--either a PG, SG, or SF who is starting caliber--because we don't have anyone on the roster returning [with apologies to Matthew Moyer, who is more of a semi-versatile 4 than a 3] who has the game / skills to fill that third perimeter role.

Had we landed Green, he would have started at 1. Frank would have slid over to be a combo who chips in a lot with ball handling / distribution responsibilities, and Battle slides to 3 -- where his size is more than adequate to play the back end of the zone.

Since we didn't, right now Howard projects as the 1. Battle could play either 2 or 3 [depending on personnel and what's best for the team], but we still have that third perimeter spot as a gaping hole.

A wing like Tucker might be able to fill that hole. He'd play 3, which enables Battle to play 2.

Bottom line: we need to add one starting caliber perimeter player -- be it a 1, 2, or 3. Once that's accomplished, we need to add rotational depth behind that group, as right now there is none to speak of. I agree with your post above that we might be able to get by at lead guard with Howard and Battle backing him up for brief periods. But we can't just roll into next season with no backcourt / wing depth. This is what's most frightening to me about next year's squad.

Lots of work still to be done on the class of 2017.

 

[Toga]

We have 3 recruiters who played guard. What the hell is going on?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Maybe Chukwu can learn PG

 

[NineOneSeven]

Let's just say for argument's sake that both Howard / Battle return [no real reason to think otherwise]. These two will occupy two of the three perimeter positions. But that means that there's a hole at whichever position these two don' fill.

Said hole would need to be filled by an incoming recruit--either a PG, SG, or SF who is starting caliber--because we don't have anyone on the roster returning [with apologies to Matthew Moyer, who is more of a semi-versatile 4 than a 3] who has the game / skills to fill that third perimeter role.

Had we landed Green, he would have started at 1. Frank would have slid over to be a combo who chips in a lot with ball handling / distribution responsibilities, and Battle slides to 3 -- where his size is more than adequate to play the back end of the zone.

Since we didn't, right now Howard projects as the 1. Battle could play either 2 or 3 [depending on personnel and what's best for the team], but we still have that third perimeter spot as a gaping hole.

A wing like Tucker might be able to fill that hole. He'd play 3, which enables Battle to play 2.

Bottom line: we need to add one starting caliber perimeter player -- be it a 1, 2, or 3. Once that's accomplished, we need to add rotational depth behind that group, as right now there is none to speak of. I agree with your post above that we might be able to get by at lead guard with Howard and Battle backing him up for brief periods. But we can't just roll into next season with no backcourt / wing depth. This is what's most frightening to me about next year's squad.

Lots of work still to be done on the class of 2017.

Life is about filling holes

 

[NineOneSeven]

Is there a list out there of what players from 2017 haven't decided on their school yet?

Also, any chance for international players?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Just scanned the last 30 or so pages of the Quade Green thread. Some damn good posts in there.

 

[Francis03]

Let's just say for argument's sake that both Howard / Battle return [no real reason to think otherwise]. These two will occupy two of the three perimeter positions. But that means that there's a hole at whichever position these two don' fill.

Said hole would need to be filled by an incoming recruit--either a PG, SG, or SF who is starting caliber--because we don't have anyone on the roster returning [with apologies to Matthew Moyer, who is more of a semi-versatile 4 than a 3] who has the game / skills to fill that third perimeter role.

Had we landed Green, he would have started at 1. Frank would have slid over to be a combo who chips in a lot with ball handling / distribution responsibilities, and Battle slides to 3 -- where his size is more than adequate to play the back end of the zone.

Since we didn't, right now Howard projects as the 1. Battle could play either 2 or 3 [depending on personnel and what's best for the team], but we still have that third perimeter spot as a gaping hole.

A wing like Tucker might be able to fill that hole. He'd play 3, which enables Battle to play 2.

Bottom line: we need to add one starting caliber perimeter player -- be it a 1, 2, or 3. Once that's accomplished, we need to add rotational depth behind that group, as right now there is none to speak of. I agree with your post above that we might be able to get by at lead guard with Howard and Battle backing him up for brief periods. But we can't just roll into next season with no backcourt / wing depth. This is what's most frightening to me about next year's squad.

Lots of work still to be done on the class of 2017.

That's why I don't understand how Brewster Academy currently has a PG and shooter available but we have spent zero time on their campus to evaluate those players. Especially when both would fit a huge need.

 

[RF2044]

That's why I don't understand how Brewster Academy currently has a PG and shooter available but we have spent zero time on their campus to evaluate those players. Especially when both would fit a huge need.

You know where I stand on Haywood. Not suggesting that the kid will be a world beater, but he looked like a more than capable 3 who can do a lot of things--handle, drive, shoot. Decent size, ability to play multiple positions.

Not an athletic skywalker, but a highly skilled player who can do a lot of things well. He's getting recruited by some good schools, too, so its not as though he is a reach who is totally under the radar. Haywood and his guard teammate from Brewster are exactly the types of players we should be supplementing the class with, while we simultaneously chase some higher rated guys.

I'd feel a lot better about our perimeter depth next season knowing that we had someone like Haywood to come off of the bench.

 

[rackman18]

We have 3 recruiters who played guard. What the hell is going on?

That is the whole point. They could play guard but they can not recruit and for sure can't close. I have been keeping hush on saying this for a long time. We put to much stock in these ex player for SU that they can bring in some top talent. The truth is they can't and it is and has prove this. The other is JB, either he has lost his touch or he doesn't put the effort in that he has in the past because he is leaving soon. Point being he spent all that time with the Olympic team when he could have been on Greens door step so Cal Pal would have had less wooing time with Quade. I also say the ex players are not the best guys to work with the new players coming in. I say get rid of some if not all are them and and start fresh and bring in some top recruiters and someone who can work with the bigs and teach them how to play. We have had some bigs over the last few years and they can't get out of their own way. We get hammered on the boards where we should be over powering the opponents. If JB leaves, bring in a real good coach "and there are some real good coaches who would love to take over the coaching job here",and start fresh with a whole new staff and do this and do it right. We need to get a coach that will recruit
anywhere in the states. Look what Arizona has done. With the way we finish last year and with what we had coming back and with all the "ship" we have available for the next two years , we should have 3- 4 players locked up. I know I am going to get beat down with this big time but oh well, just the way I feel. jmo

 

[RF2044]

That is the whole point. They could play guard but they can not recruit and for sure can't close. I have been keeping hush on saying this for a long time. We put to much stock in these ex player for SU that they can bring in some top talent. The truth is they can't and it is and has prove this. The other is JB, either he has lost his touch or he doesn't put the effort in that he has in the past because he is leaving soon. Point being he spent all that time with the Olympic team when he could have been on Greens door step so Cal Pal would have had less wooing time with Quade. I also say the ex players are not the best guys to work with the new players coming in. I say get rid of some if not all are them and and start fresh and bring in some top recruiters and someone who can work with the bigs and teach them how to play. We have had some bigs over the last few years and they can't get out of their own way. We get hammered on the boards where we should be over powering the opponents. If JB leaves, bring in a real good coach "and there are some real good coaches who would love to take over the coaching job here",and start fresh with a whole new staff and do this and do it right. We need to get a coach that will recruit
anywhere in the states. Look what Arizona has done. With the way we finish last year and with what we had coming back and with all the "ship" we have available for the next two years , we should have 3- 4 players locked up. I know I am going to get beat down with this big time but oh well, just the way I feel. jmo

I don't think that there's anything wrong with what you're saying at all. We saw what happened when we went outside of the "family" the last time the program was in a rut, bringing in Troy Weaver. Immediately, he turned our recruiting around. And his replacement, Rob Murphy, did a pretty good job, too.

Having an all alum staff is nice to a limited extent, and I'm fans of all three of those guys, but it doesn't necessarily fulfill the mandate of assembling the best staff you can, and the best group of recruiters you can. Plus--where's the big man coach? I believe that being so insular isn't best for the program. Especially when I see teams like Arizona killing it on the recruiting trail. Sure wish we had a bulldog on the staff to supplement Hopkins vis a vis recruiting, especially now that JB is approaching the finish line, and in light of that NYT article that indicated that Hop is now ascending more into the closer role.

Get the best assistant coaches you can. Period. Doesn't matter where they're from.

 

[Cusefan0307]

FWIW we look to be in the lead for Robby Carmody who is a top 10 SG. Problem is he is 2018.