Athletic Budget Comparison

[nzm136]

A constant theme in the interviews Dr Gross has been doing about SU joining the ACC is about how joining the ACC will lead to a bigger budget, more competitive budget that will better position Syracuse to compete with schools like Ohio State, Texas and Florida.

Here is a look at the athletic budget for schools in the ACC and Big East for the 2010-11 school year (I only includes a handful of basketball schools in the BE).

You can see Syracuse has a modest budget compared to many other schools it competes against. Look for the SU budget to be expanded in a major way starting next season (it was at $54 million in 2011-12).

Athletic Budgets for 2010-11:

Notre Dame $94 million
Louisville $87 million
FSU $86 million
UVA $72 million
UNC $70 million
Duke $67 million
Boston College $64 million
UConn $62 million
Clemson $60 million
West Virginia $58 million
Maryland $57 million
Miami $57 million
V Tech $56 million
Pittsburgh $56 million
NC State $54 million
Rutgers $53 million
Syracuse $50 million
G Tech $46 million
South Florida $43 million
Wake Forest $42 million
Cincinnati $37 million
St Johns $32 million
Georgetown $31 million
Villanova $29 million


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=562319
http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/3/20/2880533/financial-comparison-acc-athletic-department-budgets-10-11

I stumbled across this thread way late, but at least part of it is wrong.*

"Look for the SU budget to be expanded in a major way starting next season (it was at $54 million in 2011-12)"

No. The budget was $69 million with revenues of $73 million. Go to the DOE's "equity in athletics" site and search for SU's numbers if you don't believe me. Their numbers are from the '11-12 year. That makes me question the $50 million number, too.

The numbers from the '12-13 year should see huge jump, given our football team tied for #1 in the BIG EAST and won the Pinstripe Bowl, our basketball team went to the Final Four, our M and W lax team played in the final four (men's was #2), and our athletic dept. finished in the top 40 in the director's cup standings.

The number from '13-14 should also see a huge jump, given our change in conference affiliation.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDet...43d31312f332f323031332031323a34313a313220414d

*There used to be a fund raising web page on the SU Athletics site that compared SU's facilities with those of other BIG EAST schools in an effort to stress the need to give money to support our facilities which were lagging at the time. I was looking for that to share with another thread(http://syracusefan.com/threads/facilities.60191/), but found this and thought that I should correct the misstatement in case someone else stumbles upon this in the future.

 

[kirbivore]

Expect to see an almost immediate 25% bump in revenues, and in a couple of years expect to be operating with an additional $20M per year, which will equate to budget at the end of the day. As a private institution SU doesn't have access to state funding that public schools do to make up short falls. It has to live within it's means. The move to the ACC will be a huge injection of cash into the program.

Here is the revenue profile for Private D-1 schools for 2010. With the bump SU is going to receive they are going to be in an excellent position relative to their peers.

▶ LIQUID - YouTube

 

[Crusty]

Im most surprised by how high uconn is on this list

Guess that shows money isn't everything.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Don't go by that DOE information. From what I've been told, sometimes the private schools get creative with those numbers (ex. including all scholarship dollars for athletes including academic money as a cost), so that what you see isn't completely accurate.

If SU Athletics has extra revenue this year, why are they telling the University Senate that they have none? http://www.dailyorange.com/2013/10/...stration-develop-big-east-exit-fee-agreement/

 

[jekelish]

The budget for my athletics department is about $850,000. I guess we won't be competing with Notre Dame quite yet!

 

[nzm136]

Don't go by that DOE information. From what I've been told, sometimes the private schools get creative with those numbers (ex. including all scholarship dollars for athletes including academic money as a cost), so that what you see isn't completely accurate.

If SU Athletics has extra revenue this year, why are they telling the University Senate that they have none? http://www.dailyorange.com/2013/10/...stration-develop-big-east-exit-fee-agreement/

1. I disagree. Government numbers are almost always far and away the most reliable. All schools expense scholarships for athletes under the athletic department budget and credit it under the academic budget. That's the norm. It isn't just a private schools thing. There is even explicitly a box in the DOE pages that handles just that. In other words, even though they do include it, they don't try to hide the fact that they did include it, or the amount. However, you're right that private schools tend to have higher tuitions, so they are disproportionally affected. None the less, if you're going to take scholarship expenses out of Syracuse's budget, you have to take it out of UL, FSU, and all the other schools, and I know for a fact that the UL, FSU, and many of the other numbers include scholarships.

2. I don't work for the university accounting department, but my guess is that 1.these numbers are from before we committed to build a new IPF, 2. the athletics department is heavily taxed by the university, 3. we are probably going to add sports soon to get in line with the other athletic departments in the ACC, which are bigger than their counterparts in the BIG EAST.

 

[Btstimpy]

A constant theme in the interviews Dr Gross has been doing about SU joining the ACC is about how joining the ACC will lead to a bigger budget, more competitive budget that will better position Syracuse to compete with schools like Ohio State, Texas and Florida.

Here is a look at the athletic budget for schools in the ACC and Big East for the 2010-11 school year (I only includes a handful of basketball schools in the BE).

You can see Syracuse has a modest budget compared to many other schools it competes against. Look for the SU budget to be expanded in a major way starting next season (it was at $54 million in 2011-12).

Athletic Budgets for 2010-11:

Notre Dame $94 million
Louisville $87 million
FSU $86 million
UVA $72 million
UNC $70 million
Duke $67 million
Boston College $64 million
UConn $62 million
Clemson $60 million
West Virginia $58 million
Maryland $57 million
Miami $57 million
V Tech $56 million
Pittsburgh $56 million
NC State $54 million
Rutgers $53 million
Syracuse $50 million
G Tech $46 million
South Florida $43 million
Wake Forest $42 million
Cincinnati $37 million
St Johns $32 million
Georgetown $31 million
Villanova $29 million


http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=562319
http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2012/3/20/2880533/financial-comparison-acc-athletic-department-budgets-10-11

This list really reinforces that the ACC should put Connecticut on the top of its list for expansion candidates to become #16. Then perhaps West Virginia. Cincinnati's budget is below Wake Forest.

 

[texasorange]

This list really reinforces that the ACC should put Connecticut on the top of its list for expansion candidates to become #16. Then perhaps West Virginia. Cincinnati's budget is below Wake Forest.

No thank you. I'd rather invite Navy, but Cincinnati at least offers new markets and fertile recruiting grounds.

 

[bnoro]

No thank you. I'd rather invite Navy, but Cincinnati at least offers new markets and fertile recruiting grounds.

I'd rather stay at 15 than take either.

 

[TexanMark]

This list really reinforces that the ACC should put Connecticut on the top of its list for expansion candidates to become #16. Then perhaps West Virginia. Cincinnati's budget is below Wake Forest.

Most of us feel about UConn how you feel about adding James Madison to the ACC. I used to think they would be a good add...changed my mind to neutral.

 

[CuseOnly]

1. I disagree. Government numbers are almost always far and away the most reliable. All schools expense scholarships for athletes under the athletic department budget and credit it under the academic budget. That's the norm. It isn't just a private schools thing. There is even explicitly a box in the DOE pages that handles just that. In other words, even though they do include it, they don't try to hide the fact that they did include it, or the amount. However, you're right that private schools tend to have higher tuitions, so they are disproportionally affected. None the less, if you're going to take scholarship expenses out of Syracuse's budget, you have to take it out of UL, FSU, and all the other schools, and I know for a fact that the UL, FSU, and many of the other numbers include scholarships.

2. I don't work for the university accounting department, but my guess is that 1.these numbers are from before we committed to build a new IPF, 2. the athletics department is heavily taxed by the university, 3. we are probably going to add sports soon to get in line with the other athletic departments in the ACC, which are bigger than their counterparts in the BIG EAST.

I do know that SU does get creative when it comes to the Dome finances and revenue generated by it. I know that it is considered a separate entity, not part of the athletic department so that the revenue generated is not included in these numbers.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/12/syracuse_university_football_m_1.html


Gross is correct in that respect, said a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Education. There are no standard accounting methods used in determining how much money an individual school makes or doesn’t make.


Accounting methods can skew the profit-loss margin because schools are not held to the same accounting standards, Gross said. The Carrier Dome, for example, is considered a separate entity from SU Athletics, Gross said. Syracuse teams that play there pay rent — an expense most teams don’t have. SU officials would not say how much the Athletic Department pays the Dome for football, but game-day expenses for football were $1,693,145 in 2009, according to the Equity in Athletics report.


Expenses also are skewed because of private school tuition. A full scholarship at Syracuse costs about $52,000 per year, significantly more than tuition at public state schools such as Texas, Ohio State and Penn State. Total cost at Texas, for example, including room and board, is about $30,000 for an out-of-state resident, and significantly less for an in-state student athlete.

Think of how much "rent" that all the teams that play in the Dome pay are creatively pulled from the athletic budget as expenses as well as all of the revenue that the Dome brings in every year. $1.6 mil just for 6 games in football, how much does BBall pay each year?

 

[Btstimpy]

Most of us feel about UConn how you feel about adding James Madison to the ACC. I used to think they would be a good add...changed my mind to neutral.

I was just basing my comment on the size of their athletic department budget. UConn's is about the size of Clemson's. They are a eastern state flagship school albeit a smaller state. Academically they would fit. And the ACC today sponsors 25 sports. UConn sponsors 22 of them missing only men's lacrosse, wrestling, and women's golf. They help with the ACC's interest in New York City for basketball. The football powers in the conference won't like them, but I see good upside contribution that they could make. I also don't want to see the Big Ten take them and move into New England.

James Madison is all well and good, but they are at the FCS level in football. The ACC really doesn't need another Virginia school. Two is enough. Old Dominion is moving up to FBS. But if the ACC were looking at a Virginia school, William & Mary would be the best academic fit. They would need to upgrade to FBS though.

 

[Moontan]

I was just basing my comment on the size of their athletic department budget.

Mark was just basing his comment on the fact that he (and others here) simply don't like Yukon so much (anymore). Some of that has to do with fan interaction, both online and in person. Since the Fall 2011 announcement, things have gotten a bit less friendly between the two fan bases.

We'll have to give it a few years to see if there's any change in that sentiment if/when the next conference re-alignment domino falls.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nzm136]

I do know that SU does get creative when it comes to the Dome finances and revenue generated by it. I know that it is considered a separate entity, not part of the athletic department so that the revenue generated is not included in these numbers.

http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/12/syracuse_university_football_m_1.html


Gross is correct in that respect, said a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Education. There are no standard accounting methods used in determining how much money an individual school makes or doesn’t make.

Accounting methods can skew the profit-loss margin because schools are not held to the same accounting standards, Gross said. The Carrier Dome, for example, is considered a separate entity from SU Athletics, Gross said. Syracuse teams that play there pay rent — an expense most teams don’t have. SU officials would not say how much the Athletic Department pays the Dome for football, but game-day expenses for football were $1,693,145 in 2009, according to the Equity in Athletics report.

Expenses also are skewed because of private school tuition. A full scholarship at Syracuse costs about $52,000 per year, significantly more than tuition at public state schools such as Texas, Ohio State and Penn State. Total cost at Texas, for example, including room and board, is about $30,000 for an out-of-state resident, and significantly less for an in-state student athlete.

Think of how much "rent" that all the teams that play in the Dome pay are creatively pulled from the athletic budget as expenses as well as all of the revenue that the Dome brings in every year. $1.6 mil just for 6 games in football, how much does BBall pay each year?

1. Regarding the scholarship costs, I originally said:

"All schools expense scholarships for athletes under the athletic department budget and credit it under the academic budget. That's the norm. It isn't just a private schools thing. There is even explicitly a box in the DOE pages that handles just that. In other words, even though they do include it, they don't try to hide the fact that they did include it, or the amount. However, you're right that private schools tend to have higher tuitions, so they are disproportionally affected. None the less, if you're going to take scholarship expenses out of Syracuse's budget, you have to take it out of UL, FSU, and all the other schools, and I know for a fact that the UL, FSU, and many of the other numbers include scholarships."

2. As far as the Dome, that isn't a private/public thing. Every university does it differently. However, I've also seen it written somewhere that the rent covers maintenance costs of the Dome. So, instead of paying maintenance, we pay rent. Although it technically is an expense that most athletic departments don't have to pay, at the end of the day, the total value of the expense is pretty similar. I would imagine the same thing is true with revenue. And even if it isn't, every school has quirky book-keeping practices, but that doesn't make them unreliable. Given the staggering size of many athletic budgets and the endless listings of potential revenues and expenses, odds are that they balance out. That's especially true since pretty much all athletic departments have the same motives.

**The truth is that every athletics department in the country dramatically understates revenue. How many orange shirts with "Syracuse" written on them would be sold if SU stopped playing sports? Yet, I would be amazed if the athletics dept. gets credit for any of those sales, unless the shirt has an athletic-related picture or text written on it.