Avery Johnson canned...does Deron Williams strike again?

[djcon57]

Exactly, how many teams have a better Center rotation than Brooklyn. Bropez and Blatche. Thats pretty good. Along with Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace what else does Deron Williams need?

I don't know.

I know I've watched every Clips game this year and Lopez has WAY more moves than Griffin and Jordan, yet somehow Paul gets it done with a bunch of Willie Greens and Matt Barneses.

I guess my beef isn't that I think Deron sucks or anything. But he's not in the class of Paul or Rondo or Westbrook or even Tony Parker really...and he routinely gets placed up there in convo. Put him in there with your Ty Lawson types.

 

[longislandcuse]

I don't know.

I know I've watched every Clips game this year and Lopez has WAY more moves than Griffin and Jordan, yet somehow Paul gets it done with a bunch of Willie Greens and Matt Barneses.

I guess my beef isn't that I think Deron sucks or anything. But he's not in the class of Paul or Rondo or Westbrook or even Tony Parker really...and he routinely gets placed up there in convo. Put him in there with your Ty Lawson types.

The Clippers do have more talent than BK with guys like Caron Butler and Jamal Crawford but BK should be better than .500 and D-Will should put up better numbers. Your beef is the same as mine, D-Will just doesnt belong in that class and the dude has no heart. Brooklyn looks like they are on team prescribed Prozac and its because their leader (D-Will) shows no emotion.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Exactly, how many teams have a better Center rotation than Brooklyn. Bropez and Blatche. Thats pretty good. Along with Joe Johnson and Gerald Wallace what else does Deron Williams need?

I went to the Jazz at Nets game last week where the Nets blew a 16 pt lead. They have blown a few like that this year. That game was right after DWill came out in the Daily News saying that he wasn't comfortable in the Nets system.

Of course the 100 million dollar player stays while the coach gets fired. It's happened many times before. See Orlando and Stan Van Gundy.

 

[longislandcuse]

I went to the Jazz at Nets game last week where the Nets blew a 16 pt lead. They have blown a few like that this year. That game was right after DWill came out in the Daily News saying that he wasn't comfortable in the Nets system.

Of course the 100 million dollar player stays while the coach gets fired. It's happened many times before. See Orlando and Stan Van Gundy.

You can also say Melo and D'Antoni but I think NY is happy with the result of that

 

[Gabjon]

I think the offense was out dated and something had to be done. I watched a ton of there games because I live in Brooklyn they run very few pick and rolls and D Will is very good in pick and rolls. There offense looks like the spurs offense of the late 90's with Tim Duncan and David Robinson but that offense doesn't work now that zones are legal. Unless you have great passing bigs (Lopez is not) the ball sticks and the defense zones up. Back then it was have been "illegal defense"but now with the rule change it makes playing that way hard. It is the reason why most teams are playing smaller now.

 

[OrangeDW]

You guys are getting way too carried away here. Criticism of Williams' play in NJ/BK is warranted, but to act like he was never that good is crazy.

He was about 20 points, 10 assists and and around 50 % from the floor for several years and he made those overachieving Utah teams go...that's about as good as it gets for a PG. Only Paul was better at PG in those years, and even that was debatable then.

Now he's struggling...shooting poorly, seems a little overweight, and some say he hasn't been 100% healthy in recent years. Whatever it is, he's not playing that well but let's not try to change history. At one time, he earned his accolades.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You guys are getting way too carried away here. Criticism of Williams' play in NJ/BK is warranted, but to act like he was never that good is crazy.

He was 20 points, 10 assists and 50 % from the floor for several years and he made those overachieving Utah teams go...that's about as good as it gets for a PG. Only Paul was better at PG in those years, and even that was debatable then.

Now he's struggling...shooting poorly, seems a little overweight, and some say he hasn't been 100% healthy in recent years. Whatever it is, he's not playing that well but let's not try to change history. At one time, he earned his accolades.

Two things:

1, I'm not disputing Williams ability as a basketball player. He's very good. For a franchise guy though you expect more than just a very good basketball player. Also, I don't think those Utah teams overachieved. They've handled the transition away from having a "superstar" like Williams extremely well. Their front office understands how to put a team together. Williams didn't appreciate what Kevin O'Connor and Jerry Sloan were doing. He was always going to have a competitive team around him. He pissed two years of his career away missing the playoffs so that he could get out of town and end up with a team that right now is sitting at .500. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't think he's intelligent, but thankfully he makes up for it by being a tool.

2, NBA players don't respect Avery Johnson because the man sounds ri-damn-diculous when he talks.

 

[OrangeDW]

Two things:

1, I'm not disputing Williams ability as a basketball player. He's very good. For a franchise guy though you expect more than just a very good basketball player. Also, I don't think those Utah teams overachieved. They've handled the transition away from having a "superstar" like Williams extremely well. Their front office understands how to put a team together. Williams didn't appreciate what Kevin O'Connor and Jerry Sloan were doing. He was always going to have a competitive team around him. He pissed two years of his career away missing the playoffs so that he could get out of town and end up with a team that right now is sitting at .500. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I don't think he's intelligent, but thankfully he makes up for it by being a tool.

2, NBA players don't respect Avery Johnson because the man sounds ri-damn-diculous when he talks.

I don't disagree with your "off the court" points about Williams. I was taking issue with those knocking his game, or what his game used to be. I saw "Andre Miller" and had to reply.

 

[OrangeDW]

And I think Avery Johnson didn't get much of a chance here. They had a ton of roster turnover. That's basically a whole new team, how much better than .500 should they realistically expect to be right now?

It's not a loaded team anyway, I saw them as a 46-36 type of team from the beginning. They're playing a bit below that, which isn't unusual for a team with so many new players. Not to mention it's 2 best players can't make a shot. That's not Avery's fault. Make a shot! Every time I watch them, Joe Johnson is bricking wide open shots. It's a poorly constructed team with limited ceiling, that made some panic moves just to put a competitive team on the floor. At least I think that's what they were doing, if they had higher hopes than that they're nuts.

 

[Gabjon]

You guys are getting way too carried away here. Criticism of Williams' play in NJ/BK is warranted, but to act like he was never that good is crazy.

He was about 20 points, 10 assists and and around 50 % from the floor for several years and he made those overachieving Utah teams go...that's about as good as it gets for a PG. Only Paul was better at PG in those years, and even that was debatable then.

Now he's struggling...shooting poorly, seems a little overweight, and some say he hasn't been 100% healthy in recent years. Whatever it is, he's not playing that well but let's not try to change history. At one time, he earned his accolades.

If you have D Will you need to run more pick and rolls or at least some pick and rolls. They were feeding Brooks like he was Ewing.

 

[Knicks411]

1, I'm not disputing Williams ability as a basketball player. He's very good. For a franchise guy though you expect more than just a very good basketball player.

Williams in Utah was one of the best PG in the game. I don't know if that was all system or what, but PG that go for 20-10 on strong efficiency don't grow on trees. If he was playhing like that now than Avery would still be the coach. Ever since he went to Jersey he hasn't played nearly to that level. (Except that game last year where he crushed the Knicks for 50)

 

[Gabjon]

And I think Avery Johnson didn't get much of a chance here. They had a ton of roster turnover. That's basically a whole new team, how much better than .500 should they realistically expect to be right now?

It's not a loaded team anyway, I saw them as a 46-36 type of team from the beginning. They're playing a bit below that, which isn't unusual for a team with so many new players. Not to mention it's 2 best players can't make a shot. That's not Avery's fault. Make a shot! Every time I watch them, Joe Johnson is bricking wide open shots. It's a poorly constructed team with limited ceiling, that made some panic moves just to put a competitive team on the floor. At least I think that's what they were doing, if they had higher hopes than that they're nuts.

The team gets NO easy baskets. That's coaching there roster hasn't turned over that much, the knicks had much more roster turnover. That offense was terrible.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Williams in Utah was one of the best PG in the game. I don't know if that was all system or what, but PG that go for 20-10 on strong efficiency don't grow on trees. If he was playing like that now than Avery would still be the coach. Ever since he went to Jersey he hasn't played nearly to that level. (Except that game last year where he crushed the Knicks for 50)

Wasn't all system, but I think Sloan's system accounts for the statistical difference between where he was and where he's at now. I guess I'm saying that he is playing now like he was in Utah - Sloan was/is a better coach than Avery Johnson. I even like Johnson as a coach.

 

[Knicks411]

Wasn't all system, but I think Sloan's system accounts for the statistical difference between where he was and where he's at now. I guess I'm saying that he is playing now like he was in Utah - Sloan was/is a better coach than Avery Johnson. I even like Johnson as a coach.

Well if it does then Sloan is like the greatest coach ever. (which may not be all that far off from the truth, I guess)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Well if it does then Sloan is like the greatest coach ever. (which may not be all that far off from the truth, I guess)

I think that you can argue that Sloan is the greatest coach ever... if you're a starting point guard.

 

[Gabjon]

Mike D'Antonio greatest coach ever if you are a PG

 

[OrangeDW]

Mike D'Antonio greatest coach ever if you are a PG

Duhon over Marbury, and not playing Lin and trying to make Melo the point forward doesn't say much for his judgement of PG talent though.

 

[Gabjon]

Duhon over Marbury, and not playing Lin and trying to make Melo the point forward doesn't say much for his judgement of PG talent though.

It says he a bad coach which he is but his system made Nash a 2X MVP. Its a PG's dream

 

[Gabjon]

Today was Avery's wife's birthday...:noidea:

 

[MikeSU02]

Williams in Utah was one of the best PG in the game. I don't know if that was all system or what, but PG that go for 20-10 on strong efficiency don't grow on trees. If he was playhing like that now than Avery would still be the coach. Ever since he went to Jersey he hasn't played nearly to that level. (Except that game last year where he crushed the Knicks for 50)

The problem is that DW gets an office and a personal beat writer.

You can become the pseudo-GM and push out coaches, but you need to win... and win fast in a big market.

Hell, even the Jerrys said no to MJ when he pushed for certain things.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Wasn't all system, but I think Sloan's system accounts for the statistical difference between where he was and where he's at now. I guess I'm saying that he is playing now like he was in Utah - Sloan was/is a better coach than Avery Johnson. I even like Johnson as a coach.

I don't know. DWill seemed to have the ball in his hands more in Utah than he does now. He never played with a 2 guard as good as Joe Johnson. The best he played with was Derek Fisher and he is no Joe Johnson. But then again it could be the system cause none of the players who went elsewhere (Boozer, Okur, Brewer, Korver, Miles) did as well as they did in Utah. But, I just think DWill was much more hungrier when he played for the Jazz, especially when he played head to head against Chris Paul. He took those matchups very personally.

It will be interesting to see who the Nets hire as their next coach. Their best choice might be Jerry Sloan but I just can't see that happen based on how everything went down. I don't think those two ever kissed and made up so I don't know if Sloan would be interested. However, I think he is itchy for another NBA job, so you just never know. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Knicks411]

I think that you can argue that Sloan is the greatest coach ever... if you're a starting point guard.

I was trying to think; was there a PG between Deron and Stockton? If so, it wasn't for that long. Not a bad run of PG...

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I was trying to think; was there a PG between Deron and Stockton? If so, it wasn't for that long. Not a bad run of PG...

There was a three year stretch. It was supposed to be Raul Lopez who they drafted ahead of Tony Parker. He got injured so his career wasn't quite as good as Parker's. They also played Carlos Arroyo, Keith McLeod, Howard Eisley and Milt Palacios. Needless to say, they traded up for DWill.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

There was a three year stretch. It was supposed to be Raul Lopez who they drafted ahead of Tony Parker. He got injured so his career wasn't quite as good as Parker's. They also played Carlos Arroyo, Keith McLeod, Howard Eisley and Milt Palacios. Needless to say, they traded up for DWill.

You're also forgetting Mo Williams.

Arroyo didn't do much after the Jazz. McLeod was a nobody that actually produced pretty well for the Jazz.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[cliftonparksufan]

You're also forgetting Mo Williams.

Arroyo didn't do much after the Jazz. McLeod was a nobody that actually produced pretty well for the Jazz.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

Mo Williams was so far down the bench his rookie year that I did forget about him, but it was still Arroyo and Lopez that got most of the minutes that year. I think Mo Williams played some 2 guard as well.

McLeod only played four years in the NBA but is still playing overseas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_McLeod