Babers to recruits(vid)

[sufandu]

I kinda agree with your assertion. I think the civil war assumed extension of the line was war based post rationalization. I think culture is the more interesting view. As a coastal state, Cali politics and global views are more in line with coastal cities in the NE. As a football culture, I would say that Southern California teams have more offense minded balanced passing/running games that more closely aligns with SEC culture. The BigTen is more the traditional ground and pound, cloud of dust, “meathead” ball we love to tease. Stanford is an example of this in Northern California. Nothing is black and white, there are more outliers in part due to more media coverage. That said, we can represent a southern on field persona in the north and our success can turn it upside down. I hope we do.

We were looking at the football culture thing from completely different angles. I read that as the football team is the most important part of the community which is why I grouped Michigan, Ohio St, and Penn St.

With regards to style of play, it's interesting that the SEC isn't viewed as ground and pound offensively. I think that is a relatively recent change that Urban Meyer started at florida that only recently took hold at Alabama and Georgia with Clemson's success forcing Alabama's hand. Traditionally, they have been viewed as having elite defenses with offenses being more conservative.

 

[NJCuse97]

We were looking at the football culture thing from completely different angles. I read that as the football team is the most important part of the community which is why I grouped Michigan, Ohio St, and Penn St.

With regards to style of play, it's interesting that the SEC isn't viewed as ground and pound offensively. I think that is a relatively recent change that Urban Meyer started at florida that only recently took hold at Alabama and Georgia with Clemson's success forcing Alabama's hand. Traditionally, they have been viewed as having elite defenses with offenses being more conservative.

Fair thoughts, but with The entire Manning family being SEC alumni, and so many great WRs from the conference, I’ve always viewed them as more balanced than the B1G. Not more flashy or schemed, but a better balance. Their conference wide success is more about their ability to get bigger, faster athletes. This was the case for the great USC teams too. I think it’s less about talent and more about physical attributes. To the point here, they do go north for skill players. Georgia had great rbs and Bama great safeties from NJ. Florida high school talent was typically speed and attitude. We were successful with a blend of Florida speed and northern skill and toughness. B1G teams seem to succeed primarily on big linemen, which suits ground and pound. Urban brought something different from the SEC.

At least that is how I view it.

 

[SWC75]

Have you researched the weather on the west coast? The average high temperature for Stanford, California in January is warmer than Birmingham, Alabama. Portland, Oregon and Seattle, Washington are nearly identical to Knoxville, Tennesee. All of those areas have a reputation for people doing outdoor activities year round. So based on your point as you define it, the whole west coast is southern.

Fine. That puts Southern California in the South. My whole point is that schools that live in climates that allow athletes to be outdoors 12 months a year get the pick of those athletes and school that live in climates where they are indoors half the year have to try to recruit the best of the rest. The advantage they once had in size and strength because of weight training has been eliminated. Thus the national championships are now won almost exclusively by the schools that exist in the warmer climates.

 

[sufandu]

Fair thoughts, but with The entire Manning family being SEC alumni, and so many great WRs from the conference, I’ve always viewed them as more balanced than the B1G. Not more flashy or schemed, but a better balance. Their conference wide success is more about their ability to get bigger, faster athletes. This was the case for the great USC teams too. I think it’s less about talent and more about physical attributes. To the point here, they do go north for skill players. Georgia had great rbs and Bama great safeties from NJ. Florida high school talent was typically speed and attitude. We were successful with a blend of Florida speed and northern skill and toughness. B1G teams seem to succeed primarily on big linemen, which suits ground and pound. Urban brought something different from the SEC.

At least that is how I view it.

Interesting. With the history Michigan has at QB and WR and the stud WR's out of Ohio State like David Boston and Ted Ginn Jr, I see them as similar with the biggest difference being that the SEC's success has been more recent.

To be accurate, the Urban Meyer offense was more from the MWC via the SEC to the B1G. When he first went to Florida a lot of SEC people said his offense wouldn't work.

 

[NJCuse97]

Interesting. With the history Michigan has at QB and WR and the stud WR's out of Ohio State like David Boston and Ted Ginn Jr, I see them as similar with the biggest difference being that the SEC's success has been more recent.

To be accurate, the Urban Meyer offense was more from the MWC via the SEC to the B1G. When he first went to Florida a lot of SEC people said his offense wouldn't work.

Agree on Urban starting it at Utah, and bringing it to Florida, where bigger faster athletes took the system to new heights. Spurrier had a pretty prolific air attack before him though, and I’ve mentioned the competitive air game of the Vols in that same era. Bias showing here, but I’ve always been skeptical of B1G WRs. As a Giants fan, I’ve always felt they suffered a lack of receivers since the late 80s and that includes Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, and Armani Toomer.

 

[sufandu]

Agree on Urban starting it at Utah, and bringing it to Florida, where bigger faster athletes took the system to new heights. Spurrier had a pretty prolific air attack before him though, and I’ve mentioned the competitive air game of the Vols in that same era. Bias showing here, but I’ve always been skeptical of B1G WRs. As a Giants fan, I’ve always felt they suffered a lack of receivers since the late 80s and that includes Steve Smith, Mario Manningham, and Armani Toomer.

I was referring more to college success and some of the good SEC WR recievers mentioned earlier were only ok as pros. Spurrier did have the fun-n-gun teams at Florida and Tennessee was a good passing school for quite a while. I suppose my percpective is skewed by the offensively challenged LSU teams that were good dueing the BCS era and how run oriented Alabama was until recently.

 

[sufandu]

Fine. That puts Southern California in the South. My whole point is that schools that live in climates that allow athletes to be outdoors 12 months a year get the pick of those athletes and school that live in climates where they are indoors half the year have to try to recruit the best of the rest. The advantage they once had in size and strength because of weight training has been eliminated. Thus the national championships are now won almost exclusively by the schools that exist in the warmer climates.

I agree weather is a factor, but I think it's more about a culture. The godlike status of football in the south ensures more kids play and they are fanatically loyal to their hometown and regional teams. It helps that they are nearly all state schools too. I think that's why you see some of that success at some of the B1G schools too. The northeastern states missed their opportunity to invest in school sports decades ago. As they fight a lack of tradition and the since the sport moved away from private school dominance the northeast has suffered. I think if weather was the sole or even the biggest factor we would see more success on the west coast and in the southwest.

 

[SWC75]

I agree weather is a factor, but I think it's more about a culture. The godlike status of football in the south ensures more kids play and they are fanatically loyal to their hometown and regional teams. It helps that they are nearly all state schools too. I think that's why you see some of that success at some of the B1G schools too. The northeastern states missed their opportunity to invest in school sports decades ago. As they fight a lack of tradition and the since the sport moved away from private school dominance the northeast has suffered. I think if weather was the sole or even the biggest factor we would see more success on the west coast and in the southwest.

I agree with all that but the balance of power has clearly shifted in the last generation: northern teams used to do better reaching the top. I think the emphasis on weight training has eliminated the one advantage they once had.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with all that but the balance of power has clearly shifted in the last generation: northern teams used to do better reaching the top. I think the emphasis on weight training has eliminated the one advantage they once had.

How so? Weight training is weather independent and done universally? If you said sport specialization, that makes more sense to me because that seems to have taken hold more in the south.

 

[SWC75]

How so? Weight training is weather independent and done universally? If you said sport specialization, that makes more sense to me because that seems to have taken hold more in the south.

It is now. In the old days the recruiters always said to recruit size and strength in the north and speed and agility in the south. Northern teams tended to be bigger and stronger and more run oriented. Southern, (and western) teams tended to be lighter and quicker and more pass oriented. The reason given was always that kinds stayed indoors in colder climates and lifted weights. Now everyone lifts weights so that advantage has disappeared and the advantage of the warmer climate- speed and agility- is what separates teams. that's been my point from the first post.

 

[Dino2112]

un til t

It is now. In the old days the recruiters always said to recruit size and strength in the north and speed and agility in the south. Northern teams tended to be bigger and stronger and more run oriented. Southern, (and western) teams tended to be lighter and quicker and more pass oriented. The reason given was always that kinds stayed indoors in colder climates and lifted weights. Now everyone lifts weights so that advantage has disappeared and the advantage of the warmer climate- speed and agility- is what separates teams. that's been my point from the first post.

Until the Steelers of the 70 wieghts were a no no ... It made you slow and less agile ... all debunked in todays world

 

[SWC75]

un til t

Until the Steelers of the 70 wieghts were a no no ... It made you slow and less agile ... all debunked in todays world

I first heard about college weight programs with Nebraska in the 80's. After that it became a big selling point.

 

[Townie72]

It is now. In the old days the recruiters always said to recruit size and strength in the north and speed and agility in the south. Northern teams tended to be bigger and stronger and more run oriented. Southern, (and western) teams tended to be lighter and quicker and more pass oriented. The reason given was always that kinds stayed indoors in colder climates and lifted weights. Now everyone lifts weights so that advantage has disappeared and the advantage of the warmer climate- speed and agility- is what separates teams. that's been my point from the first post.

Yup!

And the speed of these teams from the Deep South is incredible.

And I can't prove this, but my sense is that some of these Southern kids are incredibly tough. Football is such a big deal down there and real "toughness" appears to be a big part of the macho ethic more so than what I have seen in the North. The "Hard Knocks" shows about East Miss. Jr. College demonstrated that ethic to me.

I don't know what all the reasons are, but those SEC teams really are better than everybody else.

 

[DinoFan15]

It is so clear that we have the right guy in charge!

 

[SWC75]

It is so clear that we have the right guy in charge!

It is here in Syracuse.

 

[RandomGuy]

Let's look at the national champions since the BCS started in 1998. The champions north of the Mason-Dixon line are in italics:

1998 Tennessee
1999 Florida State
2000 Oklahoma
2001 U of Miami
2002 Ohio State
2003 LSU or USC
2004 USC
2005 Texas
2006 Florida
2007 LSU
2008 Florida
2009 Alabama
2010 Auburn
2011 Alabama
2012 Alabama
2013 Florida State
2014 Ohio State
2015 Alabama
2016 Clemson
2017 Alabama
2018 Clemson

That's 21 seasons. Let's look at the 21 seasons before that:
1977 Notre Dame
1978 Alabama or USC
1979 Alabama
1980 Georgia
1981 Clemson
1982 Penn State
1983 U of Miami
1984 BYU
1985 Oklahoma
1986 Penn State
1987 U of Miami
1988 Notre Dame
1989 U of Miami
1990 Colorado or Georgia Tech
1991 U of Miami or Washington
1992 Alabama
1993 Florida State
1994 Nebraska
1995 Nebraska
1996 Florida
1997 Nebraska or Michigan

So we've gone from having 11 of 25 national champions over a 21 year period be from the north and from 7 different schools to having 2 of 22 national champions in a 21 year period from the north and both from the same school.

My theory: recruiters used to say that you recruit size and strength from the north and speed and agility from the south. that's because northern kids were indoors half the year, where they would likely be working out with weights. the southern kids would be out doors for 12 months so they would be running around all the time. But when schools started using weight rooms as recruiting tools, everyone had to have one and the southern players got to be as big as the northern ones. If everyone is big and strong, then the difference between players has to be something else: speed and agility. the northern schools have tried to recruit in the south to get their share of those qualities but the southern schools have gotten most of the a-list recruits while the northern teams have gotten mostly the b-listers. the southern teams thus have an advantage in speed and agility that's why their top teams have come to dominate the top teams in the north.

Dino is trying to overcome that with his system, his venue and his personality.

I may agree that the south has stepped up their strength programs, but I think it has more to do with geographical attitudes.

Massachusetts is trying to Ban youth football. When you show those people the medical studies that have girls soccer, hockey, etc. Having more concussions at the high school level? (Recently heard lax, too, but have not verified). They tend to respond that it's just too violent. They just don't like football .

I think this keeps a bunch of kids from playing, particularly in the Northeast. Those that do, the parents may allocate less time/resources to football. It is dangerous once you leave HS.

This part is just old codger stuff... I think that there may be more of a sense of entitlement in the north. Maybe I'm wrong. The best football players are often the ones that work the hardest, and feel they deserve nothing.

 

[sufandu]

I may agree that the south has stepped up their strength programs, but I think it has more to do with geographical attitudes.

Massachusetts is trying to Ban youth football. When you show those people the medical studies that have girls soccer, hockey, etc. Having more concussions at the high school level? (Recently heard lax, too, but have not verified). They tend to respond that it's just too violent. They just don't like football .

I think this keeps a bunch of kids from playing, particularly in the Northeast. Those that do, the parents may allocate less time/resources to football. It is dangerous once you leave HS.

This part is just old codger stuff... I think that there may be more of a sense of entitlement in the north. Maybe I'm wrong. The best football players are often the ones that work the hardest, and feel they deserve nothing.

I agree about the attitude. Football is worshiped in the south. It is enjoyed in the north. People that haven't spent a significant amount of time in the south can't comprehend the difference between the two regions.

 

[SWC75]

I agree about the attitude. Football is worshiped in the south. It is enjoyed in the north. People that haven't spent a significant amount of time in the south can't comprehend the difference between the two regions.

But has that changed in the last generation. A change in results needs a change in circumstances,.

 

[CuseCactus]

Those of you equating or comparing USC to ANY school in the SEC couldn’t be more wrong.

Los Angeles is as similar to Fayetteville as Charlize Theron is to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. Completely and totally different cultures.

SU has MUCH more in common with USC than any school in the SEC.

In any event - thank god we have Dino! Maybe he can pull off a miracle for the North!

 

[sufandu]

But has that changed in the last generation. A change in results needs a change in circumstances,.

No it hasn't. People in the southeast are still much more fanatical about their football than people in the north.