Barkley is right, zone lets inferior opponents

[Cuse117]

Love that it took 25 posts for someone to point out any defense let's team hang around if they are making shots lol

 

[swish7]

You guys don't get it. It makes complete sense what Barkley said.

Don't worry about it too much. The board is in the denial, butt-hurt phase. Quickly followed by the "where is the frying pan? phase.

Now is not the time to introduce something that makes sense. The great myth is that we lost solely because we missed all our 3s. Hit a few 3s and all our bball IQ problems are gone!! These great myths are why we have a low hoops IQ.

 

[orangenirvana]

Hang around if they make a few 3's. If you have better athletes you should use them to create chaos. It's great when teams don't shoot well.

Yep. No one ever hits threes against man to man defense.

For cripes sake, Barrel - the loss had everything to do with sucking at scoring. Thank God for SU's zone otherwise it would have been a blowout. Just lost a lot of respect for Barkley if he really said that.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I think it's an oversimplification. The zone itself is plenty good as a base defense, but it also becomes predictable and opponents have clearly learned to game plan for it (execution is another story).

We did not play a single team this year who from player 1-10 that is more athletic or talented. To perpetually sit back and allow teams to dictate pace allows lesser opponents to control the flow of the game and is a blatant misuse of talent. Extend to half court; extend to full court; run man for the off set or two. Lot's of ways to confuse and put pressure on the other team. The purpose of which, of course, would be to speed up play and get out in transition.

I thought the team was predictable and the coaching has been plain lazy (or at least uninspired).

 

[orangenirvana]

Don't worry about it too much. The board is in the denial, butt-hurt phase. Quickly followed by the "where is the frying pan? phase.

Now is not the time to introduce something that makes sense. The great myth is that we lost solely because we missed all our 3s. Hit a few 3s and all our bball IQ problems are gone!! These great myths are why we have a low hoops IQ.

53 points. 18 at halftime. But it's the defense. Right.

 

[kuethstheman]

I agree with those that say our shooting was the problem. But please also admit that sometimes pressure defense is the solution. While one more jumpshot might have changed the game, so might have one more turnover. I realize trapping has some risks, maybe a little more trapping might have been worth a try.

I disagree that the problem is the nature of the zone. Lots of know-nothings over-estimate the difference between zone and m2m. You can play zone much more aggressively than we did for most of the game.

 

[kuethstheman]

People should consider that maybe this is the pace JB wants. Maybe we're dictating the pace. After all most of the time, our pace was no faster than theirs.

 

[swish7]

53 points. 18 at halftime. But it's the defense. Right.

It's a lot of things. And it definitely is the offense. However, we've increased the team's energy a couple times this season by switching up the D. This is not an invalid topic.

They hit 7 threes. What is your proposal? Hit 8 threes? or hit 2 ("enough to win!") Hey, we were 2-10, and we beat the 6th team from some inferior conference.

Talk to me about defensive energy after watching a Florida or Louisville.

We need to take our "superior athletes" and choke out teams, on offense and defense. We need to play the type of game the Daytons and Butlers and SFAs play, but with our superior athletes.

 

[TheCusian]

Zone was not the issue. In the first few minutes, the Dayton plan was interior passing from the foul line to the baseline player. It worked till we shut it down. After that it was all 3's and pin downs. The D played as well as it usually does.

The offense was the issue. 3's and missed shots. End of story.

 

[orangenirvana]

It's a lot of things. And it definitely is the offense. However, we've increased the team's energy a couple times this season by switching up the D. This is not an invalid topic.

They hit 7 threes. What is your proposal? Hit 8 threes? or hit 2 ("enough to win!") Hey, we were 2-10, and we beat the 6th team from some inferior conference.

Talk to me about defensive energy after watching a Florida or Louisville.

We need to take our "superior athletes" and choke out teams, on offense and defense. We need to play the type of game the Daytons and Butlers and SFAs play, but with our superior athletes.

Do Florida and Louisville win games when they shoot 0 for 10 from 3?

You can have your "superior athletes." I'll take superior basketball players who can make jump shots.

 

[kuethstheman]

Do Florida and Louisville win games when they shoot 0 for 10 from 3?

You can have your "superior athletes." I'll take superior basketball players who can make jump shots.

Tell JB.

 

[swish7]

Do Florida and Louisville win games when they shoot 0 for 10 from 3?

They would have against Dayton. And you are never going to go 0-10 from 3 with Luke Hancock in the lineup.

 

[orangenirvana]

They would have against Dayton. And you are never going to go 0-10 from 3 with Luke Hancock in the lineup.

Because of Hancock's superior man to man pressure D no doubt.

 

[SkanSU]

Hmmm. In all honesty this has not been one of our best zone/defensive teams. I think what the zone does allow is the other team to slow the game to a crawl which has happened all year long. The "inferior" teams know that they have a better chance of winning a low scoring game than if the game were just played ... like Dayton the teams all ran the ball down below 10". The zone is a defense but it puts little pressure on the other team.
Our poor shooting has been our ultimate downfall this year. With no long ball threat its been easier for the other team to collapse and double cover our scorers. We honestly have had only 3 scorers this year... CJ, Grant, and Ennis. We have no Waiters or MCW off the bench. In fact we have had no bench. Our famed transition game totally disappeared this year ... and that has more to do with the pace of the game and the other team's efforts to slow the game to a crawl.
You cant consistently win shooting 35% ... bottom line.

 

[OburgOrange]

Actually, I think poor shooting lets inferior opponents hang around

This says it all

 

[SBU72]

MAKING 14 3's didn't HELP Duke against an "inferior" team. And Mercer didn't hit all that many themselves. Also Duke hit what, 13 against SU in the Dome and it didn't help them win. Again, defense was NOT the problem. Offense was. Barkly knows nothing about college b-ball and he criticized the SU zone all the way to the FF last year. Was he right then?

 

[Full_Rebar]

The zone might not have been a problem, but sometimes some kind of pressure defense which leads to transition points helps a team that can't make outside shots. The fact that SU had 0 points in the 1st half off of 7 Dayton turnovers was pretty telling.

This isn't about having a full-court press all game, but a little variation during these long droughts (half-court trap, full-court looks) might have helped.

 

[samspann1]

Opposing teams seemed willing to slow down the pace, and look for open shots late in the shot clock (which they often were able to find, due to our struggles at the top of zone). But, we had issues with poor shotmaking/finishing on offense (coupled with poor passing and a lack of motion on offense) and a lack of killer instinct.

Far too many times this year, we let inferior opponents either hang around and/or dictate the pace of games. We were bound to lose some of these close games at some point.

 

[swish7]

Do Florida and Louisville win games when they shoot 0 for 10 from 3?

You can have your "superior athletes." I'll take superior basketball players who can make jump shots.

These types of arguments are stupid. It's not like some road runner cartoon where one single acme bolt can foil the coyote's elaborate contraption.

You have to be good at both ends of the floor in basketball. It can never be an either, or thing. If it were like football where you could swap out units, it might be. You have to play offense with the same guys who play defense. If you have great defensive players who cannot play offense, you are screwed.

We miss shots because we do not take good shots. Taking good shots is overlooked way too much on this board.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They would have against Dayton. And you are never going to go 0-10 from 3 with Luke Hancock in the lineup.

Luke Hancock is terrible from three this year. We complain about Cooney, he's far worse.