Battle will only play the 2, Thompson will only play the 5

[reedny]

I think it all comes down to whether a player like Chukwu or Sidibe are able to contribute without being defensive liabilities. If they can, then they'll see time. If not, then TT will play at center. A lot. And another factor is whether a player like Brissett [or Moyer] brings more to the table at the 4 then Chukwu / Sidibe bring to the 5. If so, then TT slides over and Brissett indirectly steals minutes from the true 5's.

At least, that's how I see it.

Fair enough. I actually don't think there's huge difference between the rotation you/Jordoo envision and what I think we'll wind up with. We're probably arguing over 5-7 minutes by TT in the middle. I don't like his defense or rebounding, but that's true at either PF or Center. He's going to play probably 15 minutes per game, at least, in the middle.

I also agree that playing TT at PF is possible only if Chukwu/Sidibe can give us SOME scoring (and can function defensively). If that's the case (i.e., Sidibe/Chukwu can contribute), TT's defensive limitations -- which are are MOST damaging at center -- would be better masked on the wing. And we'd still get his scoring.

 

[two3zone]

We didnt bring in Marek to sit. Trust me on this. Marek is the most tailor made SF we have had in a few years. Maybe since CJ. Kid is going to surprise u all just as he did the staff . Blew them away. OB and moyer are expected to conpete for the 4 spot. TT will play all his minutes at the 5. Period. Only desperation as in multiple foul outs by others in the same game would change this.

As for Battle.. duh. He's a 2. I guess if him and Thorpe are both in u really don't know who the 1 is. They would both be able to bring it up court.

If I had a nickle for every time I heard this.

 

[sutomcat]

If Frank Howard (or Howard Washington for that matter) prove ready to provide quality minutes at this level, I agree that Battle might play some minutes at SF.

I think it more likely that our three forwards will provide quality minutes than the two Howards. But I could be wrong.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm pleasantly surprised this thread ended up having good discussion.

 

[Consigliere]

Tom, I already stated above that Battle sliding to 3 would only happen if Howard shows up in a big way. If he does, then we wouldn't NEED Thorpe at the 1 for heavy minutes. He's a double figure scorer, so where's he going to play if Howard is getting big minutes at the 1? And Battle isn't going to sit, so where would he play if Howard / Thorpe are both on the floor?

I agree that under your scenario, with Howard not being a player that can be counted upon, then the backcourt is assuredly Thorpe / Battle.

I like all three of the frosh, as well, but I'm tempering my expectations for what they'll produce this upcoming season until I have a chance to see them myself during the preseason. Here's hoping at least one of them emerges as a starting caliber SF. But what happens if one of them doesn't? Of if 2 of them or all 3 of them are better suited to play the 4 than the 3 offensively during their freshman campaign?

Again, the two bullets I list above in my original response to you seem like the keys to how the lineup will shake out.

Basically what it comes down to is that our best 5 players will be on the floor as much as possible. IF Howard, Thorpe and Battle are among that group of 5 (and I agree that is a big IF with Frank) it just makes sense that JB will try to get them on the floor together, at least in specific scenarios - foul trouble up front, inability for one of the three Frosh Fs to consistently hit the 3. I think Battle is certainly best purely at 2 but there is at least a possibility that under some circumstances, no matter how unlikely, we may field a better team with him at the 3. Again, does anyone really think SF was Malachi's best position? But due to circumstances - presence of Cooney, G moving to point when Kaleb failed - that's where he spent the vast majority of his minutes.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think thompson plays 34 minutes per all at center and battle plays 37 per all at the 2.

 

[iommi]

You've got Brissett and Marek reversed, IMO. Oshae might eventually round into form as a 3, but he's a 4 at this stage of his developmental curve.

I think Brissett plays some 3 out of necessity but you're right that he's better suited as a 4 now. Moyer has been working extremely hard to round his game into being a capable 3. Not sure he will be there early on but he's trending in the right direction.

 

[iommi]

Did Battle play anywhere but SG his frosh season? I don't think so. With all the forwards on the team and the lack of guards, it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to be asked to play SF. And if we add another player who can play PG, we will have 3 scholarship players on the roster that can play there, which is more than the 2 we had last season. So yes, it is pretty obvious he isn't going to play PG either barring a couple of injuries or a crazy game with a lot of foul outs.

There are three scholarship players at center. I expect TT to be the worst of the three on defense by a large margin (and the best on offense, also by a large margin).

My expectation is that Chukwu is going to be groomed for a role as a pressing specialist. When we press, he will be back at the hoop, the last line of defense. I think that was going to be his role this past season until he got hurt. He might play a little when the top 2 centers get in foul trouble as well.

My expectation is that Sidibe (no BS) will get a lot of playing time. I expect he will be by far our best center defensively, and probably the best rebounder of the bunch too. I don't expect a lot offensively but I think he will get some points off of offensive rebounds, hustle plays in transition and maybe make a basket or two in the half court too.

I am thinking Chukwu gets 7 mpg. Sidibe gets 20 mpg (among other things, he will have foul trouble issues). JB is going to have to play him a lot because our defense is not going to be great to begin with and he is so much better than the other options we have here.

TT gets the other 13 minutes at center. I think TT is going to play around 25 mpg (foul trouble will continue to be a problem though not as bad as it was his frosh year). That leaves him with 12 minutes at PF. Some of that time will be spent playing with Sidibe. When that happens, TT will surely play PF, not Sidibe.

So I agree with you on Battle and disagree about Taurean.

Chukwu was so bad at the back of the press last season. He SHOULD BE around the basket but the problem last year is he didn't understand that. He was almost always out of position and he didn't stand his ground.

I disagree with you that Sidibe will be foul-prone. He's a smart defender and he knows how to block shots without fouling. He goes straight up and keeps the ball in play. He goes for the break-starting block, rather than the swat that winds up in the fourth row. Yes, he's raw offensively, but if he gets 20 mpg, I expect him to score maybe 6-8 ppg. He does have some skills.

 

[sutomcat]

Chukwu was so bad at the back of the press last season. He SHOULD BE around the basket but the problem last year is he didn't understand that. He was almost always out of position and he didn't stand his ground.

I disagree with you that Sidibe will be foul-prone. He's a smart defender and he knows how to block shots without fouling. He goes straight up and keeps the ball in play. He goes for the break-starting block, rather than the swat that winds up in the fourth row. Yes, he's raw offensively, but if he gets 20 mpg, I expect him to score maybe 6-8 ppg. He does have some skills.

I like Sidibe a lot and also see him in the 6-8 ppg range. The number of big men at SU that were not foul prone early in their careers is very short. History says he is going to struggle to stay out of foul trouble playing against stronger, more experienced players most every game.

Time will tell.

 

[SoBristol]

I agree with sutomcat that frosh centers tend to struggle to stay out of foul trouble, as Thompson & Chukwu did in their first year here.

History provides a variety of examples of young centers, with varying strengths & weaknesses. Melo & Keita (2010-11); Coleman; Christmas (though he began as a PF and had limited roles before Fab was DQed); McCullough (played some C, though primarily a PF); Lydon; Thompson. Would not put them in the same bucket: Lydon managed to avoid foul trouble and averaged 30 minutes per game, while Thompson & Coleman collected fouls in bunches.

Comparing to Thompson, I see Sidibe as more defensive minded, potentially a better rebounder, and more likely to take his scoring close to the basket. Could easily see Thompson paired with Sidibe, with Thompson at the high post. Admittedly, this is based on limited observations of Sidibe's play -- need to see what he, Brissett, and Marek can actually do against college competition.

 

[iommi]

sutomcat, SoBristol I do agree with you guys that freshmen bigs at SU historically are foul-prone. My point is that Sidibe in high school, though he did wind up in foul trouble occasionally, did show an ability to block shots without fouling. He also proved to be a cerebral player with good defensive habits, i.e.: he doesn't commit stupid fouls by reaching in or going over the back, etc.

That said, college ball is a different animal. He will be against a lot of stronger, more experienced players, as Tomcat said. He could be foul prone but it won't be because of bad habits he picked up in high school at least.

 

[cuseinseattle]

That is OttoinGrotto's bold prediction.

You can argue it, but you'll be wrong. All of Battle's minutes will be at shooting guard, and all of Thompson's minutes will be at center.

I agree. I think Thompson at the 5 is more of a lock. I believe Brissett will be able to come in and contribute at the 3. If that doesn't happen and he is more of a 4 then I'm not sure what we do. For example if we have Thorpe and Howard comes in and has improved and is able to handle the PG minutes for like 20-25 minutes a game then I could see Battle shifting down there for stretches to have a better offensive lineup on the floor. I personally have a lot of confidence in Brissett and think with some help from Marek they will hold down the 3 with Moyer and Sidibe at the 4 and Sidibe taking some minutes from TT at the 5. I'm just saying the Battle thing could happen although I think it is very unlikely.

 

[cuseinseattle]

In my opinion our best lineup is going to be:
Pg- Thorpe
Sg-Battle
Sf-Oshae
PF-Marek
C-Thompson

I think you can put Moyer in for Oshae or Marek and you won't be losing much. But in that lineup you have a ton of versatility, solid rebounding, decent shooting, lots of athleticism and is our best scoring lineup by far. I think with Thorpe, Battle and Thompson we have 3 guys that score over 20 on any given night and Oshae will have his share of 15+ point games as well. This team is being underrated in my opinion.

I think Moyer at the 4 over Marek will be are best lineup

 

[cuseinseattle]

If I had a nickle for every time I heard this.

If you hear it enough times it has to be true right. Also you need to change your avatar back to do you miss me yet Trevor Cooney.

 

[jordoo]

If you hear it enough times it has to be true right. Also you need to change your avatar back to do you miss me yet Trevor Cooney.

I know its confusing and that avatar was great.

 

[two3zone]

If you hear it enough times it has to be true right. Also you need to change your avatar back to do you miss me yet Trevor Cooney.

Love that avatar. Lol

 

[l'orange]

I worry the addition of Geno could add more tension to the team especially Howard like last year. If Frank Howard gets himself settled and proves he can put together some solid play do you think we'd ever go small/scoring ball with:

1 - Howard
2 - Thorpe
3 - Battle
4 - Moyer
5 - Thompson

It might be one of the only was to get two players with 3 point range on the court.