Bernie Fine missed?

[KingOtis]

Looking at Rak's development - or lack thereof - I have to wonder if we're starting to see what the loss of Bernie Fine looks like. Sophomore big men of the past usually came in with new post moves. That was Fine's area of expertise. Christmas is as raw offensively as he was a year ago. With a coaching staff of former guards, will this become a trend?

 

[albanycuse]

Rak has displayed some baby hook shots, a pull up jumper that actually looks good but not falling consistently. And big men develop slower.


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[KingOtis]

Rak has displayed some baby hook shots, a pull up jumper that actually looks good but not falling consistently. And big men develop slower.

Like I said, most of our sophomore bigs came into their second seasons with the signature, Bernie Fine post moves. And a good portion of them weren't McDonald's High School All-Americans.

 

[SWC75]

Do you really want him back?

 

[Oakland]

Looking at Rak's development - or lack thereof - I have to wonder if we're starting to see what the loss of Bernie Fine looks like. Sophomore big men of the past usually came in with new post moves. That was Fine's area of expertise. Christmas is as raw offensively as he was a year ago. With a coaching staff of former guards, will this become a trend?

I doubt it.

 

[dasher]

Like I said, most of our sophomore bigs came into their second seasons with the signature, Bernie Fine post moves. And a good portion of them weren't McDonald's High School All-Americans.

No. Not at all. He was very over rated as a big man coach

 

[KingOtis]

Do you really want him back?

That's not what I meant. But we got rid of our big man coach and didn't replace him. As much as I don't want to sacrifice any of our current assistants, this is something that might need to be addressed during the offseason. At the very least bring in some kind of a consultant, if that's allowed.

 

[dasher]

That's not what I meant. But we got rid of our big man coach and didn't replace him. As much as I don't want to sacrifice any of our current assistants, this is something that might need to be addressed during the offseason. At the very least bring in some kind of a consultant, if that's allowed.

I really don't see what Bernie could do that hop isn't. I can list the big men that didn't improve a bit under Bernie as well. It's not like Bernie was DC.

 

[KingOtis]

No. Not at all. He was very over rated as a big man coach

As an all-around big man coach, you're probably right. But from Otis Hill to Hakim Warrick to Rick Jackson, they all developed similar post moves. Moves that Christmas isn't even trying.

 

[kcsu]

bernie was a good coach not great but good and i do think that our bigs would be doing better if he were still coaching

 

[Zelda Zonk]

A

Looking at Rak's development - or lack thereof - I have to wonder if we're starting to see what the loss of Bernie Fine looks like. Sophomore big men of the past usually came in with new post moves. That was Fine's area of expertise. Christmas is as raw offensively as he was a year ago. With a coaching staff of former guards, will this become a trend?

Agree we need a 'true' big man coach, but disagree that Rak hasn't shown developed skills. I actually think he's underutilized, and we'll pay down the stretch, when we will absolutely need to be able to score in the paint from someone not penetrating from the outside. Those days of tossing it in to Arinze or Rick and getting a quality shot will be sorely missed.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Looking at Rak's development - or lack thereof - I have to wonder if we're starting to see what the loss of Bernie Fine looks like. Sophomore big men of the past usually came in with new post moves. That was Fine's area of expertise. Christmas is as raw offensively as he was a year ago. With a coaching staff of former guards, will this become a trend?

I have always thought Fine was a terrible big man coach--still do. Christmas is developing, but it takes time.

 

[samspann1]

As an all-around big man coach, you're probably right. But from Otis Hill to Hakim Warrick to Rick Jackson, they all developed similar post moves. Moves that Christmas isn't even trying.

Jackson had one low-post move. He would dribble to his right, and then shoot a baby hook.

In 4 years, he never developed his right hand.

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's one player...I'd probably wait to come to conclusions like this.

 

[longislandcuse]

I have always thought Fine was a terrible big man coach--still do. Christmas is developing, but it takes time.

I really dont know if I can agree with the "it takes time" approach. We have 2 McDonalds Big Men and they can barely see the court. You actually need to play to get better. No reason that Fair/Keita should be playing 90% of the game when we cant rebound, defend or score inside. If we're going to get abused down low at least let Rak/DC2 get some on-court learning time.

 

[zhanjuzi]

Both Rak and DC2 are four-year players and will take time to develop. We are very lucky Keita has picked it up .. its taken him three years and has paid off.

 

[SWC75]

No reason that Fair/Keita should be playing 90% of the game when we cant rebound, defend or score inside.

Keita played 23 minutes in that game. Christmas played 25. For the season it's 173-219.

 

[bnoro]

Wow. Absolutely not missed. Hop is 1000 times the coach Fine was.

 

[sufandu]

Looking at Rak's development - or lack thereof - I have to wonder if we're starting to see what the loss of Bernie Fine looks like. Sophomore big men of the past usually came in with new post moves. That was Fine's area of expertise. Christmas is as raw offensively as he was a year ago. With a coaching staff of former guards, will this become a trend?

Bernie had plenty of big men that never developed.

 

[BayonneOrange]

Wow. Absolutely not missed. Hop is 1000 times the coach Fine was.

Just wondering, and with all due respect, how would you know??

 

[SWC75]

Just wondering, and with all due respect, how would you know??

No one on this board has ever made a statement about something they wouldn't know.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

That's not what I meant. But we got rid of our big man coach and didn't replace him. As much as I don't want to sacrifice any of our current assistants, this is something that might need to be addressed during the offseason. At the very least bring in some kind of a consultant, if that's allowed.

I agree I would like to address the bigs coach issue.

I think, by results, it appears that Bernie did his best work towards the end - AO, Rick, and Fab. If it is true that experience matters, it could help explain the somewhat poor results for Hop so far. It should also serve as motivation to hire sooner rather than later. And the hire should be someone that will be around with Hop for years to come. Doing it now would help solidify the transition from JB to Hop.

 

[Jake]

Bernie did a fine job early in his career, but towards the end he had become a very ineffective recruiter.

As far as his work with the big men, it had always been overstated. If you've ever attended practice and watched the tail end of Bernie's career vs hop now, you'd see a huge difference in energy level, player interaction, and over time you'll see it translate onto the court.

Bernie's role in the post 2001-era had been extremely "limited".

 

[BlackKnight76]

Just wondering, and with all due respect, how would you know??

He knows people


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[orangejunkie]

If I were a "big man" I'm sure I would respond to Hopkins style and personality, much more than Bernie Fine's. Teaching basketball skills is not rocket science. As someone mentioned, Rak has shown some improved skills, but lacks consistency and a consistent motor.