Best Class Since 1997?

[OrangePA]

Nope. This group of coaches are way better than we've had in a long time. McDonald pulling some of the FL kids we're in on this year and last - is better than we've had in a while.

Better than Keon Lyn, Julian Whigham, Ritchie Desir, R'Shard Anderson, Durrell Eskridge et al?

I'm not sure that's a fair statement at this point.

Marrone and his staff recruited Florida pretty well.

 

[orangeinohio]

I don't think this is true. Need to look at star average, not overall class ranking.

By the overall metric, Western Michigan has a better class than us according to Rivals, just because they have 26 commits and we have 17. Which is preposterous.

As you can see below, 2.82 is by far our best average ranking over the last 12 years. It's not even close.

Rivals Rankings
2014 - 2.82 (59th)
2013 - 2.58 (74th)
2012 - 2.62 (66th)
2011 - 2.46 (76th)
2010 - 2.38 (78th)
2009 - 2.29 (118th)*
2008 - 2.54 (48th)
2007 - 2.56 (48th)
2006 - 2.42 (52nd)
2005 - 2.40 (56th)
2004 - 2.28 (50th)
2003 - 2.48 (53rd)
2002 - 2.52 (44th)

What's interesting (to me, at least) about these rankings is that a '2.28' in 2004 was worth a ranking a 50th.
In 2009, '2.29' was worth 118th.
Someone smarter than me - please explain.

 

[TheCusian]

Better than Keon Lyn, Julian Whigham, Ritchie Desir, R'Shard Anderson, Durrell Eskridge et al?

I'm not sure that's a fair statement at this point.

Marrone and his staff recruited Florida pretty well.

Probably just splitting hairs - but I think Shafer was the FL guy for Marrone? If that guys is now our head coach, but we have a really well known, well respected OC in McDonald (that all FL kids mention every chance they get) - that means it's better, no?

 

[SUFan44]

What's interesting (to me, at least) about these rankings is that a '2.28' in 2004 was worth a ranking a 50th.
In 2009, '2.29' was worth 118th.
Someone smarter than me - please explain.

We had 32 commitments in 2004. High quantity + below average quality = higher overall ranking.

In 2009 we had 14 commitments. 18 less commitments + relatively same quality = lower ranking.

Which is why the only fair way to judge the quality of each class is the average value of each commitment. But some don't get that.

 

[orangeinohio]

We had 32 commitments in 2004. High quantity + below average quality = higher overall ranking.

In 2009 we had 14 commitments. 18 less commitments + relatively same quality = lower ranking.

Which is why the only fair way to judge the quality of each class is the average value of each commitment. But some don't get that.

We should just get a recruiting class of 50 guys off the street. That'll guarantee that we'll have the #1 class.

 

[OrangePA]

Probably just splitting hairs - but I think Shafer was the FL guy for Marrone? If that guys is now our head coach, but we have a really well known, well respected OC in McDonald (that all FL kids mention every chance they get) - that means it's better, no?

I think you said this staff is "way better" in recruiting.

That I think that's an overstatement - by a lot.

Facilities, money, conference standing, success all probably mean more than a particular recruiter means.

The guys who coach college football are typically good guys, interesting guys, guys who enjoy teaching kids the game - they are typically enthusiastic folks.

I think that people probably split hairs in gauging the recruiting talents of these coaches.

I will give you that recruiting contacts and networks mean a lot. But I think Marrone had a lot of that and I think he recruited quite well.

 

[baggerbob]

You can't compare the conference we were in to where we are now. That would be saying an apple is an orange, we now have a real conference, with many years of tradition. Florida St, Miami, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, Louisville all have recent history of being good, the second tier in this conference is much better. Georgia Tech, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, North Carolina, Duke are a good second tier. Virginia, Wake Forest, North Carolina St have had good years in the recent past. The past year National Champion Florida St, and Clemson wins the Orange bowl, the only conference to win 2 BCS bowl games. The SEC always talks we won 7 in a row, well they are the only conference this year to lose 2 BCS bowl games.

 

[rrlbees]

Which is why the only fair way to judge the quality of each class is the average value of each commitment. But some don't get that.

If everyone had the same number of recruits.

Here's an example as to relativity. You ran a 10.0 100 last year and were the best in the state. You run a 9.9 this year, but another person runs a 9.8.

I'll make a bet. Just like many think the star system is garbage until we get a 4 star, I'm betting if we had a class ranked 23rd, nobody would look at per player.

 

[GoSU96]

What's interesting (to me, at least) about these rankings is that a '2.28' in 2004 was worth a ranking a 50th.
In 2009, '2.29' was worth 118th.
Someone smarter than me - please explain.

Grade inflation. (to an extent)

The ranking has to do with total points. '04 was a full + class, in '09 it was a class of 14.

 

[GoSU96]

I think you said this staff is "way better" in recruiting.

That I think that's an overstatement - by a lot.

Facilities, money, conference standing, success all probably mean more than a particular recruiter means.

The guys who coach college football are typically good guys, interesting guys, guys who enjoy teaching kids the game - they are typically enthusiastic folks.

I think that people probably split hairs in gauging the recruiting talents of these coaches.

I will give you that recruiting contacts and networks mean a lot. But I think Marrone had a lot of that and I think he recruited quite well.

The situation here in 2014 is much, much, much different than in 2009 and 2010.

If SU wasn't seeing this type of class given the work the last couple of years by EVERYBODY involved, I'd be surprised and disappointed. This type of class should be expected at this point.

 

[SUFan44]

If everyone had the same number of recruits.

Here's an example as to relativity. You ran a 10.0 100 last year and were the best in the state. You run a 9.9 this year, but another person runs a 9.8.

I'll make a bet. Just like many think the star system is garbage until we get a 4 star, I'm betting if we had a class ranked 23rd, nobody would look at per player.

That's not even the point I'm arguing - nor the point of the OP. He asked if this was the best class of players we have had recruited to Syracuse since 1997. That's it. Said nothing about who our conference mates were, said nothing about facilities, said nothing about what other programs are doing. Had to do with Syracuse football, and Syracuse football alone.

What you say about Syracuse having classes ranked higher than they are now in the last 7-8 years is the part I have an issue with. And that's what I stated before. Because it's simply not true. Those classes just had more players. This is the best class of the last 12 years based on quality of players and the rankings they were given out of high school.

If we had a class ranked 23rd in the country, I guarantee you it would be a higher value per player. The lowest in top 25 last year was WVU at 2.96 - they had 28 recruits. Which is higher than any we have had in that period, too.

 

[TBCuse11]

Star ratings mean nothing. The offer list is what matters. We are beating out power conference teams now, not just the MAC schools.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Jesus, I said it's the best class in ten years, which was the case last year to that point. Year over year there has been improvement since Robinson, but it's been steady and incremental, this class holds to that trend based on current verbals.

It's not an indictment of Shafer and McDonald to say that.

As soon as I read cuseinchina's post I knew it was an absolute certainty that I would see you respond.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Star ratings mean nothing. The offer list is what matters. We are beating out power conference teams now, not just the MAC schools.

tep624 has been doing an amazing job keeping tabs on this on the recruting board.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/recruits-and-offers.54822/

 

[rrlbees]

That's not even the point I'm arguing - nor the point of the OP. He asked if this was the best class of players we have had recruited to Syracuse since 1997. That's it. Said nothing about who our conference mates were, said nothing about facilities, said nothing about what other programs are doing. Had to do with Syracuse football, and Syracuse football alone. What you say about Syracuse having classes ranked higher than they are now in the last 7-8 years is the part I have an issue with. And that's what I stated before. Because it's simply not true. Those classes just had more players. This is the best class of the last 12 years based on quality of players and the rankings they were given out of high school. If we had a class ranked 23rd in the country, I guarantee you it would be a higher value per player. The lowest in top 25 last year was WVU at 2.96 - they had 28 recruits. Which is higher than any we have had in that period, too.

Then why did you reply to me? I'm not talking facilities or what conference we are in. And yes quantity does matter to be considered a best class.

 

[rrlbees]

Star ratings mean nothing. The offer list is what matters. We are beating out power conference teams now, not just the MAC schools.

And I'll repeat what I said before, which doesn't mean I am speaking of a specific kid, but in general. There is more reliability in the star and ranking system than there is in the offers listed on those sites. Dismiss stars but dismiss the listed offers too.

 

[SUFan44]

Then why did you reply to me? I'm not talking facilities or what conference we are in. And yes quantity does matter to be considered a best class.

Because I didn't agree with what you said.

I'm through making my argument. Clearly you don't agree with much, so we agree to disagree.

 

[tep624]

tep624 has been doing an amazing job keeping tabs on this on the recruting board.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/recruits-and-offers.54822/

Thanks, for once I'm the non-controversial aspect of a controversial thread, ha!

 

[Cuse House]

Star ratings mean nothing. The offer list is what matters. We are beating out power conference teams now, not just the MAC schools.

When we start getting recruits who have no mid major offers because they have no chance of getting the recruit, that is when you know we are back.

 

[All4SU]

Because I didn't agree with what you said.

I'm through making my argument. Clearly you don't agree with much, so we agree to disagree.

I agree...I think.

 

[syr02esq]

I don't think this is true. Need to look at star average, not overall class ranking.

By the overall metric, Western Michigan has a better class than us according to Rivals, just because they have 26 commits and we have 17. Which is preposterous.

As you can see below, 2.82 is by far our best average ranking over the last 12 years. It's not even close.

Rivals Rankings
2014 - 2.82 (59th)
2013 - 2.58 (74th)
2012 - 2.62 (66th)
2011 - 2.46 (76th)
2010 - 2.38 (78th)
2009 - 2.29 (118th)*
2008 - 2.54 (48th)
2007 - 2.56 (48th)
2006 - 2.42 (52nd)
2005 - 2.40 (56th)
2004 - 2.28 (50th)
2003 - 2.48 (53rd)
2002 - 2.52 (44th)

I understand where you are going with this and your point is made, but I think one possible explanation can be the general "star inflation" that Rivals has done in recent years. In other words, they may be giving out more 3 and 4 stars than ever to keep schools happy.

 

[Crusty]

We had 32 commitments in 2004. High quantity + below average quality = higher overall ranking.

In 2009 we had 14 commitments. 18 less commitments + relatively same quality = lower ranking.

Which is why the only fair way to judge the quality of each class is the average value of each commitment. But some don't get that.

That is not true either. There are many ways to get an average number. The dispersion is what really counts.

 

[Crusty]

Star ratings mean nothing. The offer list is what matters. We are beating out power conference teams now, not just the MAC schools.

That is just silly. Stars do matter but they are not the be all and end all. Better teams have higher average star classes year in and year out. The stats just don't bear you out.

Kids inflate their offers because they are the ones that report them.

 

[Crusty]

Here's a different thought. Our classes are probably a bit higher than their ratings because our offers don't yet carry the same weight as the T25 programs. Just a thought.

 

[Opus]

I'll tell you if this was the best class since 1997 on January 22, 2016. Now of course I jinxed myself and will get hit by a bus on January 21, 2016.