Best Offensive Lineups??

[anomander]

At what point do we need to go with the better offensive players? Obviously Coleman didn't get any time the 2nd half because JB doesn't trust him on the defensive end, but at what point do you just have to let him play? Last night could have been a perfect opportunity after a career 1st half. Don't get me wrong I understand why the move is being made, and I don't trust him defensively either. But just how much more is Rak and Baye giving us? Last night both were pretty ineffective and the way DC was playing it could have been a great learning experience while still having a good chance to win. He is just too strong on the offensive glass, and by far the best offensive center. Being as limited as we are on the offensive end this season this move may need to be made at some point.

That also brings up the 2 freshman, Roberson and BJ. Again I can't say i'm surprised I didn't expect either to play that much, but I am pretty shocked they both got DNP's. I really don't see it getting any better this season either. They are both firmly stuck behind CJ, and Grant. In close games there is no way either will be out of the game in the 2nd half. The best opportunity to try and steal an offensive spark would be in the 1st half, but again was shocked by the double DNP. I was trying to figure out ways to get Roberson minutes, but as completely stumped. CJ is playing 35-38 mins/g, and Grant isn't far behind. The best bet would to give Roberson the token start the 4 gets, and either take out Rak or DC depending on what your looking for that game (off/def). Regardless Grant is coming in within 4 or 5 mins, and that strategy is shot. This is also the main reason why I thought it would be beneficial to give BJ a red shirt. I guess I can understand not doing it because at least he gets the experience traveling with the team for road games, but he is stuck squarely in the back of the numbers game right now.

What's everyone's thoughts on this? Is there any way you can see Roberson/BJ getting minutes?

 

[RF2044]

At what point do we need to go with the better offensive players? Obviously Coleman didn't get any time the 2nd half because JB doesn't trust him on the defensive end, but at what point do you just have to let him play? Last night could have been a perfect opportunity after a career 1st half. Don't get me wrong I understand why the move is being made, and I don't trust him defensively either. But just how much more is Rak and Baye giving us? Last night both were pretty ineffective and the way DC was playing it could have been a great learning experience while still having a good chance to win. He is just too strong on the offensive glass, and by far the best offensive center. Being as limited as we are on the offensive end this season this move may need to be made at some point.

That also brings up the 2 freshman, Roberson and BJ. Again I can't say i'm surprised I didn't expect either to play that much, but I am pretty shocked they both got DNP's. I really don't see it getting any better this season either. They are both firmly stuck behind CJ, and Grant. In close games there is no way either will be out of the game in the 2nd half. The best opportunity to try and steal an offensive spark would be in the 1st half, but again was shocked by the double DNP. I was trying to figure out ways to get Roberson minutes, but as completely stumped. CJ is playing 35-38 mins/g, and Grant isn't far behind. The best bet would to give Roberson the token start the 4 gets, and either take out Rak or DC depending on what your looking for that game (off/def). Regardless Grant is coming in within 4 or 5 mins, and that strategy is shot. This is also the main reason why I thought it would be beneficial to give BJ a red shirt. I guess I can understand not doing it because at least he gets the experience traveling with the team for road games, but he is stuck squarely in the back of the numbers game right now.

What's everyone's thoughts on this? Is there any way you can see Roberson/BJ getting minutes?

Roberson is going to play a ton this year. A TON.

But not in game 4, when the entire team is shitting the bed. Right now, he's unproven and the game last night is on the line. Think about it: if CJ has his usual 15-19 points, we win easily despite the team being off. Instead, we had a game where the three most important offensive cogs [CJ, Grant, Ennis] all had bad nights, and we only scored 56 and had to scratch out a win.

There is a place for players like Roberson to contribute. We need to iron out some kinks offensively as a collective team; that isn't on the performance of the frosh.

 

[Trueblue25]

I honestly don't know what the best lineup would be. Neither are playing bad, but the SG position is a mystery to me.

 

[two3zone]

Roberson is going to play a ton this year. A TON.

But not in game 4, when the entire team is shitting the bed. Think about it: if CJ has his usual 15-19 points, we win easily despite the team being off. Instead, we had a game where the three most important offensive cogs [CJ, Grant, Ennis] all had bad nights, and we only scored 56 and had to scratch out a win.

There is a place for players like Roberson to contribute. We need to iron out some kinks offensively as a collective team; that isn't on the performance of the frosh.

If you get a DNP against St Francis you're not going to get big minutes against many other teams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CusefanATL]

If you get a DNP against St Francis you're not going to get big minutes against many other teams.

some people forget that 35 years of history is usually a good predictor of future behavior.

 

[RF2044]

If you get a DNP against St Francis you're not going to get big minutes against many other teams.

Really? I'd be willing to take that bet, on Roberson this year.

This was a highly circumstantial DNP, not indicative of what is going to happen throughout the season.

 

[two3zone]

some people forget that 35 years of history is usually a good predictor of future behavior.

I meant to add that in my post as well, barring injury or suspension the oration VERY RARELY changes from the beginning of the season. There is something JB sees that makes Bus and Roberson sit the bench as much as they did yesterday. If he doesn't trust you against St Francis, why would you be on the court vs Duke.

Another thing, when CJ and Dion hit the floor their freshman year, you could see that they were capable from the getgo, were they stars right away? No, but they weren't going to hurt the team by playing, what I've seen from our two rooks in question is that they're just not ready right now and if you're not ready at this point the DNPs will add up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[two3zone]

Really? I'd be willing to take that bet, on Roberson.

Why did he get a DNP last night then? Why would it change? Who's minutes is he going to get?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Trueblue25]

If you get a DNP against St Francis you're not going to get big minutes against many other teams.

I disagree. Roberson will see plenty of time.

 

[cusetown1]

If you get a DNP against St Francis you're not going to get big minutes against many other teams.

That's not true. At all.

 

[Trueblue25]

Why did he get a DNP last night then? Why would it change? Who's minutes is he going to get?

He'll get some of Jerami's, 1/5, maybe less I'd gueess.

 

[RF2044]

Why did he get a DNP last night then? Why would it change? Who's minutes is he going to get?

Is this a rhetorical question? Maybe because:

1. JB coaches to win every game, regardless of worrying about giving developmental PT
2. The entire team was playing like crap all second half, and he tightened the rotation to maximize the team's chances of getting the win--right, wrong, or indifferent, that's how he coaches
3. Roberson is a frosh who by game #4 in his career hasn't yet proven himself to JB, and JB's substitution patterns are always based upon how much he TRUSTS the players
4. Last night's game wouldn't have been nearly as close if any of CJ, Grant, or Ennis might have had a more standard offensive performance; if the game hadn't been as tight, maybe the rotation wouldn't have been so tight

I disagree 100% with your premise. I've been to practice this preseason, and I'm telling you that I unequivocally believe that Roberson is the real deal, and has the tools, talent, and chops to contribute--this year. He just needs to get his sea legs.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on that point. Stay tuned to see how it turns out--I'll readily admit crow if my prediction ends up being wrong.

 

[SoBristol]

With CJ as a frosh, and Grant last year, you could not be making any projections of playing time after 4 games in November. Something happened to the guys ahead of them (injury, suspension, inconsistent play), and they each got better.
Can't be absolute about those 35 years of history. Frosh can develop.

 

[two3zone]

I guess you haven't wa



Is this a rhetorical question? Maybe because:L

[1] JB coaches to win every game, regardless of worrying about giving developmental PT
[2] The entire team was playing like crap all second half, and he tightened the rotation
[3] Roberson is a frosh who hasn't proven himself to JB, and JB's substitution patterns are always based upon how much he TRUSTS the players
[4] Last night's game wouldn't have been nearly as close if any of CJ, Grant, or Ennis might have had a more standard offensive performance; if the game hadn't been as tight, maybe the rotation wouldn't have been so tight


I disagree 100% with your premise. I've been to practice this preseason, and I'm telling you that I unequivocally believe that Roberson is the real deal, and has the chops to contribute--this year. He just needs to get his sea legs.

I'm cool with agreeing to disagree on that point. Stay tuned to see how it turns out.

And nobody wants you to be right more than me, I hope he can give the production that everybody says he can give. I've just watched JB coach for a long time and he doesn't adjust is rotation very often and with CJ, Grant and a little Rak in his path there aren't a lot of minutes to pass around. I'm not debating Roberson's talent, I'm debating where the minutes are going to come from as well as our stubborn coaches rotations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cusetown1]

Roberson and Bj will contribute this year. The freshmen have have the jitters, that is all.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Right now our best offensive lineup is quite obvious--

Coleman, Cooney, Ennis, Grant, Fair.

A pg who can attack the rim, a spot up shooter, two extremely athletic wings (one who is just going to keep improving), and a developing big man who is our team's best rebounder inside.

 

[CusefanATL]

Is this a rhetorical question? Maybe because:

1. JB coaches to win every game, regardless of worrying about giving developmental PT
2. The entire team was playing like crap all second half, and he tightened the rotation to maximize the team's chances of getting the win--right, wrong, or indifferent, that's how he coaches

but he didnt play in the 1st half either... we were in control for most of the 1st half with no indication that we would struggle as much as we did in the 2nd half.

 

[RF2044]

but he didnt play in the 1st half either... we were in control for most of the 1st half with no indication that we would struggle as much as we did in the 2nd half.

If you call being up 4-5 points, then yes--I suppose we were in "control" most of the first half.

We got up early, and then let them climb back into the game by the end of the half. Score at halftime was 30-26. We only scored 30 points in the first half--think about that for a second. We weren't in control at all. And it took us 5 1/2 minutes to score our first basket in the second half, by which time we'd squandered that meager lead.

No offense, but the facts don't support your perspective. It was an uncomfortably close game throughout, we weren't playing well offensively, and JB did what he usually does in such circumstances--circle the wagons, and do what it takes to claw out the win. Generally at the expense of inexperienced, unproven frosh.

 

[anomander]

Roberson is going to play a ton this year. A TON.

But not in game 4, when the entire team is shitting the bed. Right now, he's unproven and the game last night is on the line. Think about it: if CJ has his usual 15-19 points, we win easily despite the team being off. Instead, we had a game where the three most important offensive cogs [CJ, Grant, Ennis] all had bad nights, and we only scored 56 and had to scratch out a win.

There is a place for players like Roberson to contribute. We need to iron out some kinks offensively as a collective team; that isn't on the performance of the frosh.

My question is where are the minutes going to come from? Maybe he gets grant mins from last year (with an active JS) otherwise there just aren't a lot available. If CJ is having his worst career game wouldn't that be the best time for a few minutes here or there? JB rarely plays freshman , I just don't see a ton of time for his this year


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[RF2044]

My question is where are the minutes going to come from? Maybe he gets grant mins from last year (with an active JS) otherwise there just aren't a lot available. If CJ is having his worst career game wouldn't that be the best time for a few minutes here or there?

I can't believe you or anyone would actually advocate benching our senior--the ACC preseason player of the year--for a frosh, just because he's having a poor game. JB lives and dies [and far more often lives] by riding his horses.

Grant minutes from last year are what I project for Roberson this year, and I expect him to demonstrate similar intermittent productivity. And that would still equate to him making a strong contribution to this year's team--reagardless of statistical production. Just like Grant "only" averaged ~4ppg last season--he was "better" than what those stats imply.

JB rarely plays freshman , I just don't see a ton of time for his this year

He doesn't? That's news to me.

 

[anomander]

I can't believe you or anyone would actually advocate benching our senior--the ACC preseason player of the year--for a frosh, just because he's having a poor game. JB lives and dies [and far more often lives] by riding his horses.

Grant minutes from last year are what I project for Roberson this year, and I expect him to demonstrate similar intermittent productivity. And that would still equate to him making a strong contribution to this year's team--reagardless of statistical production. Just like Grant "only" averaged ~4ppg last season--he was "better" than what those stats imply.



He doesn't? That's news to me.

Where did I advocate for benching Fair? My point was if Roberson didn't get minutes vs St Francis with CJ obviously having an off game, he isn't going to get them at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1

 

[RF2044]

Where did I advocate for benching Fair? My point was if Roberson didn't get minutes vs St Francis with CJ obviously having an off game, he isn't going to get them at all


Sent from my iPhone using -

Faulty logic. On many levels.

 

[zhanjuzi]

And nobody wants you to be right more than me, I hope he can give the production that everybody says he can give. I've just watched JB coach for a long time and he doesn't adjust is rotation very often and with CJ, Grant and a little Rak in his path there aren't a lot of minutes to pass around. I'm not debating Roberson's talent, I'm debating where the minutes are going to come from as well as our stubborn coaches rotations.

The two prior games both Roberson and BJ have had horrendous offensive outings. Consequently they both are not doing much to help themselves especially when the game is on the line. Its frustrating to be a freshman and be productive in the few chances given .. remember MCW rode the pine for many games his freshman year and look at him now. This is just not going to be the year for both of these guys but will have a great deal more chances to prove themselves next year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

He doesn't? That's news to me.

Ennis is playing big minutes out of necessity. Look back the last few seasons..our freshman have started and played extremely limited minutes. You said it yourself, JB rewards players he trusts and who have been in the system a bit.

 

[RF2044]

Ennis is playing big minutes out of necessity. Look back the last few seasons..our freshman have started and played extremely limited minutes. You said it yourself, JB rewards players he trusts and who have been in the system a bit.

JB has repeatedly stated that Ennis is one of the most advanced freshman PGs he's ever coached. He had one bad game; he's not playing big minutes out of "necessity."

The substitution pattern you're describing is what JB has done with bigs who've started and not been ready. Ennis is a different situation entirely.