Best Zone, best historical zone personnel?

[Flacusian]

Much has been said of the current version of the Syracuse zone and the freakish level that the defense is being executed during this tournament. Obviously, it's not only the zone but the characteristics and talents of the members of the team which comprise the zone. A lot of commentators and interviews have intimated as much.

My question is this: Of all the personnel that have played for Syracuse over the years, which players would you assemble strictly on the basis of creating the best Syracuse zone ever?

Would you take Andy Rautins over Brandon? Arinze over Craig Forth or even Rony Seikaly? Remember it's for DEFENSE only.
From this years team I would include MCW but likely none of the others.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Mcw, Rautins, Wes Johnson, Hakim Warrick, Etan Thomas.

 

[Cuse House]

Mcw, Rautins, Wes Johnson, Hakim Warrick, Etan Thomas.

I like this except I would trade Thomas for Coleman.

 

[Flacusian]

Mcw, Rautins, Wes Johnson, Hakim Warrick, Etan Thomas.

Bingo... exactly who I had penciled in.

 

[No Hoyas]

I like this except I would trade Thomas for Coleman.

I agree except if ypu have to pick a "5" , Fab was one of the best 5's to draw charges as well as block some shots. When I thnk of Etan, the 5 fouls in the first 5 mins is what comes up first , and then his good career.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Etan actually rebounded, Fab did not.

 

[RF2044]

Mcw, Rautins, Wes Johnson, Hakim Warrick, Etan Thomas.

Love Hakim--one of my favorite all time players. But I don't think he was a great zone defender [or defender in general]. I'd trade CJ for him at forward, maybe Fab for Etan at center. Again, just fitting your criteria about this being about defense only.

Otherwise, I like your squad. You could make the case for Brandon over Rautins, since we're talking defense only and not the more consistent outside shooting that Rautins would bring to the table, but its pretty close to being a wash IMO there.

 

[No Hoyas]

Etan actually rebounded, Fab did not.

I redact my statement, I was thinking "defense" only- not overall ability. Fab flopped well enough to play for Duke

 

[RF2044]

Etan actually rebounded, Fab did not.

Etan rebounded very well his senior year. Before that, he was average [below average, when you consider his physical tools].

Fab had tremendous defensive instincts, and the size to put a body on people. I'd go with him over Etan personally.

 

[Cuse'91]

Etan is a no brainer, totally agree...
But, I vote for Conrad McRae to man the middle... RIP...

 

[OttoMets]

This is cool, never thought of this exercise before.

Rautins up top, for sure. Joined by Mike (I've come around - he's come a long way in four months; really a defensive terror in the past three weeks). Duany should be mentioned, too. Dark horse: Z Sims. We weren't as intense back then, but he defended the high post pretty well and had good hands.

Most of our forwards have been weak links in recent years. Southerland's very strong. With more experience, Wes would probably have gotten very good (in his first 35 games, he wasn't). And he could rebound. Hakim became capable, not great, but he was a strong rebounder. And Fair has improved by leaps and bounds. Pretty short list.

Fab's the best defensive five in the zone era, but he didn't rebound. To me, Southerland's the best wing, but he's got the same problem (to a lesser degree). So maybe they can't play together.

Other centers: Arinze was on a team that got it done. (For his first three years, of course, he was on a team that didn't. How much of that was his responsibility, I don't know - it's tough to be in the middle when opposing players treat your guards like a revolving door.) Etan's got the defensive all-league awards, but they still played a lot of man back then. Don't think he's on the Onuaku/Fab level. Otis was also very capable. (Seikaly probably could have been very good in the current zone, but that was our secondary defense in his era so I'm throwing him out.)

If pressed, I'll take: Mike/Rautins/Wes/Fab/South. (Assuming fourth-year Wes became better than fourth-year Hakim was.)

 

[sutomcat]

Much has been said of the current version of the Syracuse zone and the freakish level that the defense is being executed during this tournament. Obviously, it's not only the zone but the characteristics and talents of the members of the team which comprise the zone. A lot of commentators and interviews have intimated as much.

My question is this: Of all the personnel that have played for Syracuse over the years, which players would you assemble strictly on the basis of creating the best Syracuse zone ever?

Would you take Andy Rautins over Brandon? Arinze over Craig Forth or even Rony Seikaly? Remember it's for DEFENSE only.
From this years team I would include MCW but likely none of the others.

I would go with Thomas at center, DC and Wes Johnson at the forward slots and Andy and MCW up top.

Honorable mention at center goes to Bouie, right there with Thomas as far as blocking shots goes, Fab, who would probably get the nod had he stayed here for 1 or 2 more years, and BMK, who is the most mobile center Syracuse has had in the JB era. He might be the most mobile center in the history of college basketball. How many blocks does he have this season on jumpers taken from deep in a corner? Remarkable. Doesn't rebound or use his body down low well enough to get a top rating. Conrad was as athletic as anyone we have had at center, did some amazing things but was not as consistent as some, not a great rebounder either.

DC didn't play zone all the time but when he did, he was the best weak side shot blocker we have had at forward. Tremendous athlete and the best rebounder I have seen play at Syracuse.

Wes was a freak combination of quickness, leaping ability, timing and anticipation. He was amazing in the 2-3, would have loved to have seen what he could have done in his senior season.

Those guys are the prototypes for a 4 and a 3 in the 2-3 as far as I am concerned.

Hak could cover a ton of ground and was very good at blocking shots/rebounding. CJ does a really good job, is capable of making spectacular blocks, always great hustle and rarely makes a bad decision. JS has made steady improvements on defense over the course of his career, is a premiere athlete but maybe lacks the consistency of some of the others.

BT and DW were both really good but not quite as long and disruptive.

Jason Hart was the best man defender at guard we have ever had but wasn't as dominating playing zone. Eddie Moss was also great but didn't play a lot of zone so must be shunned.

 

[Lawrinson14]

BMK, who is the most mobile center Syracuse has had in the JB era. He might be the most mobile center in the history of college basketball.

It's funny you mention this. I thought the same thing during the Indiana and Marquette games. It seems like he has unlimited stamina as he always is hustling and giving 100%.

 

[BillJay]

Etan over Fab & it's not even close. Etan = 2 time B.E. Defensive Player of the Year. Fab had one good year here - good when he was on the court. He had 88 blocks last year. Etan averaged 106 per year over 4 years. The only argument that could be made for Fab is that he played in the current version of the zone.

I'd argue for another name from the past as our 2nd best defensive center: Roosevelt Bouie. But he played in a time when JB had very different defensive philosophies, etc. & I'm not sure how well his skills would translate to the current zone. In the SI college basketball preview issue prior to his senior year he was part of an article highlighting defensive stars - I remember the cheesy pictures had a Road Work theme with players by orange traffic cones and stop signs.

 

[OttoMets]

Etan over Fab & it's not even close. Etan = 2 time B.E. Defensive Player of the Year. Fab had one good year here - good when he was on the court. He had 88 blocks last year. Etan averaged 106 per year over 4 years. The only argument that could be made for Fab is that he played in the current version of the zone.

...

Don't agree that that's the only argument in Fab's favor, but your two points in Etan's favor don't represent a valid argument at all. Statistics and accolades are hardly dispositive. (If blocks were a measure, Donte Greene would be on this list.)

When we're talking about great zone defenders, the eye test is what matters most.

Etan was very good. You're right that he was a better shotblocker than Fab. He was a better and stronger rebounder, too. And he was certainly no slouch when we played man (which we did a lot during his career).

There was never a time, though, that he was better in the middle of the zone than Fab was for 30 games last season.

 

[RF2044]

Don't agree that that's the only argument in Fab's favor, but your two points in Etan's favor don't represent a valid argument at all. Statistics and accolades are hardly dispositive. (If blocks were a measure, Donte Greene would be on this list.)

When we're talking about great zone defenders, the eye test is what matters most.

Etan was very good. You're right that he was a better shotblocker than Fab. He was a better and stronger rebounder, too. And he was certainly no slouch when we played man (which we did a lot during his career).

There was never a time, though, that he was better in the middle of the zone than Fab was for 30 games last season.

I agree with this. Fab also had an advantage that I haven't seen listed anywhere above in that he was much bigger / stronger than many of those guys listed as center options, and excelled at putting a body on people. Even when he wasn't blocking shots, he made things difficult inside due to his size. That's why I list him as the best zone center, even though statistically he wasn't as good as Etan or Conrad were their senior years.

I'm surprised that Watkins hasn't gotten mentioned for the same reason. Guy was an outstanding position defender, even though we played zone. He really used to lock up big guys like Roy Hibbert / Aaron Gray, and had the athleticism to run with Uconn big guys. Very good shot blocker, too.

 

[orangefog]

I agree with this. Fab also had an advantage that I haven't seen listed anywhere above in that he was much bigger / stronger than many of those guys listed as center options, and excelled at putting a body on people. Even when he wasn't blocking shots, he made things difficult inside due to his size. That's why I list him as the best zone center, even though statistically he wasn't as good as Etan or Conrad were their senior years.

I think having the two great forwards next to Fab would mask pretty much all of his weaknesses. He was agile enough to get to the free throw line and block shots far from under the basket, but that often left the rim area vacant and made offensive rebounds more available. Having Wes and DC down there gobbling up rebounds would be unreal.

 

[KingOtis]

My guess is that Jerami Grant will be on this team in a year or two.

 

[orangefog]

My guess is that Jerami Grant will be on this team in a year or two.

The potential is crazy, isn't it? That kid looks longer everytime I see him. If we weren't in the Final Four with another great year on the horizon for next year, I would be drooling over the back line of Jerami Grant, Chris McCullough and a senior Rak.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

This is cool, never thought of this exercise before.

Rautins up top, for sure. Joined by Mike (I've come around - he's come a long way in four months; really a defensive terror in the past three weeks). Duany should be mentioned, too. Dark horse: Z Sims. We weren't as intense back then, but he defended the high post pretty well and had good hands.

Most of our forwards have been weak links in recent years. Southerland's very strong. With more experience, Wes would probably have gotten very good (in his first 35 games, he wasn't). And he could rebound. Hakim became capable, not great, but he was a strong rebounder. And Fair has improved by leaps and bounds. Pretty short list.

Fab's the best defensive five in the zone era, but he didn't rebound. To me, Southerland's the best wing, but he's got the same problem (to a lesser degree). So maybe they can't play together.

Other centers: Arinze was on a team that got it done. (For his first three years, of course, he was on a team that didn't. How much of that was his responsibility, I don't know - it's tough to be in the middle when opposing players treat your guards like a revolving door.) Etan's got the defensive all-league awards, but they still played a lot of man back then. Don't think he's on the Onuaku/Fab level. Otis was also very capable. (Seikaly probably could have been very good in the current zone, but that was our secondary defense in his era so I'm throwing him out.)

If pressed, I'll take: Mike/Rautins/Wes/Fab/South. (Assuming fourth-year Wes became better than fourth-year Hakim was.)

South over CJ? I don't think so. I think you'll see JBs answer on Saturday when you see CJ defending the Canadian's hot spot, the place where that Canadian has launched over 40 3s will be guarded and shaded by CJ.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Mine:

Mike Gbinije and Buss Patterson out top (Mike G is 6'7" and Buss has a reputed 6'10" wingspan)
CJ Fair at one wing, Jerami Grant on the other wing.
BMK in the center.

If we can put up 65 ppg next year on offense, we might be looking at another deep run.

 

[igor]

u all dont get it. etan was a great defender here and in the nba. coleman too. mcw is the best defendr here and will be all nba in a couple of years. only an idiot would mention rautins. he cant play in the nba because hed cant defend. all of the roster are good defenders. mcw, souther;and. the lefty and others are wonderful. cooectively they are talented and smart. they'd be odds on favorite if they played calhoun man

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I'm not seeing the Wes thought process here. I thought he rebounded terribly - didn't box out much and got pushed around easily because he was so thin. He's one of those guys who always jumped higher than everyone else so he got a lot of rebounds through sheer physical ability and not fundamentals. He was long and could contest shots though.

 

[OttoMets]

I agree with this. Fab also had an advantage that I haven't seen listed anywhere above in that he was much bigger / stronger than many of those guys listed as center options, and excelled at putting a body on people. Even when he wasn't blocking shots, he made things difficult inside due to his size. That's why I list him as the best zone center, even though statistically he wasn't as good as Etan or Conrad were their senior years.

I'm surprised that Watkins hasn't gotten mentioned for the same reason. Guy was an outstanding position defender, even though we played zone. He really used to lock up big guys like Roy Hibbert / Aaron Gray, and had the athleticism to run with Uconn big guys. Very good shot blocker, too.

Crap, completely forgot about Mookie.

Yes, he's up there. Above Forth and Hill defensively.

 

[KingOtis]

Crap, completely forgot about Mookie.

Yes, he's up there. Above Forth and Hill defensively.

Easy now...