Big East Ref's...so long, and we ain't going to miss ya!

[Van111]

Saturday's loss to U of L was a bitter one, considering we had the dead to rights and just completely fell apart. There were many thing we did wrong, from failing to get Southerland back on the floor, to not being able to even get a shot off, to our failure to adjusting to the game and staying in good old status quo 2/3, no pressure (well you can't have pressure if you can't make or even take shots I guess) and a failure of our offense to run anything at all down the stretch. All that said, the refs played their part in this as well. Blatant hand checking, bumping, over the back no calls all game long not only kept U of L in the game, but set it up for us to fall into what has become a consistent theme with Big East Games. Questionable calls against the Cuse and not on the other guys. How about those 2 ridiculous non-calls on the steal right before the end of the half and Silva blatantly traveling? How about the 3pt foul on Trish when the shooter clearly again traveled before the foul? How about the flagrant foul on MCW, was deserved I agree, that should never have happened because the defender had his hands all over him? No, I for one will not miss these referee's, ever. Yes we need to make changes down the road, we are way too predictable, but the one change we made was getting out of the Big East for good. In fact, I would be happy if we don't ever schedule games with these guys ever again. For the sake of the Big East, I sure hope the Catholic 7 start anew, and let all those lousy refs from the BE tag along with that pathetic football conference, whatever they call it down the road. As Arnold's favorite line and one of his great scenes, i put this into perspective of how I felt about the officiating over the last 10 years in the BE, and all I have to say to BE officials is: Hasta La Vista.....Baby!

 

[Frozen]

I wrote a post about this a couple weeks ago but cannot find it...

Why do people think that we are never going to see these refs again? Many refs work in both the BE and ACC. We will be seeing many of the same refs next season. Look at this list of ACC refs, and you will recognize several names from SU's games:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/acc/referees

 

[jdubs30]

I wrote a post about this a couple weeks ago but cannot find it...

Why do people think that we are never going to see these refs again? Many refs work in both the BE and ACC. We will be seeing many of the same refs next season. Look at this list of ACC refs, and you will recognize several names from SU's games:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/acc/referees

For whatever reason, they call games a lot tighter in the ACC. You won't be able to get away with the hand and body checks every other dribble.

 

[Van111]

For whatever reason, they call games a lot tighter in the ACC. You won't be able to get away with the hand and body checks every other dribble.

Agreed, mugging is not allowed. We will have to adjust somewhat, but for the most part, they play a more traditional brand in the ACC. Both pitt and SU may struggle out of the gate with foul difficulty next year, and I am in ACC country, you don't get away with that down here.

 

[Noexcuse]

I have to be honest with you. Thinking back to last year's game against Ohio State, I have no faith that the refs will be any better in the ACC than what we've seen in the Big East. We just don't do well against teams that play agressive defense. The refs tend to let those teams get away with hand checking, bumping, pushing players out of bounds on loose balls, bulling their way to the basket and over the back put backs. In the mean time, we are consistently called for fouls under the basket, particularly on layups. They're all fouls, but the refs draw the line on fouling the shooter.

 

[Van111]

I wrote a post about this a couple weeks ago but cannot find it...

Why do people think that we are never going to see these refs again? Many refs work in both the BE and ACC. We will be seeing many of the same refs next season. Look at this list of ACC refs, and you will recognize several names from SU's games:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/acc/referees

Syracuse GamesAll Games
RefereeGHGAGFoulsFPGStd DevHMGFoulsFPGStd DevHM
Michael Stephens 8 5 3 138 17.3 2.9 -2.3 82 2956 36.0 6.8 -2.3
Jim Burr 6 2 4 104 17.3 4.2 -3.5 60 2173 36.2 6.8 -1.1
Ed Corbett 6 1 5 100 16.7 4.2 -4.4 71 2501 35.2 7.2 -2.1
John Cahill 6 3 3 96 16.0 4.4 -4.7 75 2472 33.0 6.6 -1.0
Jeffrey Anderson 4 3 1 62 15.5 2.6 -2.0 85 3112 36.6 7.1 -1.8
John Gaffney 4 1 3 75 18.8 1.6 1.7 76 2812 37.0 7.9 -2.0
Tim Clougherty 4 1 3 70 17.5 2.3 -3.3 57 1965 34.5 7.3 -3.1
Karl Hess 3 2 1 40 13.3 1.2 2.0 94 3385 36.0 6.5 -2.0
Robert Riley 3 3 0 42 14.0 0.8 60 2195 36.6 7.1 -0.6
Doug Shows 3 2 1 48 16.0 4.2 -9.0 73 2480 34.0 6.6 -2.8
Bryan Kersey 3 2 1 41 13.7 1.2 2.5 92 3233 35.1 6.6 -1.8

Yes, they do cover multiple conferences but only Hess and Kersey (ACC 49/BE 25) were major ACC/BE Refs that officiated heavy in both conferences (yet in only 6 SU games) while Stephens, Corbett and Cahill (ACC 22/ BE 72) had coached a majority of BE with just a little ACC coeverage and they coached at 3 games a piece for SU. Here are the Ratios ACC/BE games for refs that officiated SU games. MS 5/25, JB 0/23, EC 7/24, JC 10/24, JA 0/16, JG 0/23, TC 0/15, KH 25/19, RR 0/3, DS 0/11, BK 24/8.

For SU officiated games we had a BE official in all of our games except 1 home game where Riley covered our game from the MAC. Of the above covered SU games, Only 5 refs covered ACC games, and only 2 had substantial coverage of ACC games (Kersey and Hess). The rest roll over to the SEC, B10, MAC and NEC. What does this all mean? We are likely to not have Jim Burr and Michael Stephens covering our games, we will drop by over 60% having a BE ref at one of our games, which means, we should be seeing a whole lot of new faces on the court, for good or for bad, it will not be the same. These officials will have to break up and cover the new BE and whatever that new conference will be. It is unlikely that the ACC will sign on any of these refs from the BE that they don't already have playing in the league. Again, we will have a heck of alot less exposure from these officials down the road.

 

[Van111]

I have to be honest with you. Thinking back to last year's game against Ohio State, I have no faith that the refs will be any better in the ACC than what we've seen in the Big East. We just don't do well against teams that play agressive defense. The refs tend to let those teams get away with hand checking, bumping, pushing players out of bounds on loose balls, bulling their way to the basket and over the back put backs. In the mean time, we are consistently called for fouls under the basket, particularly on layups. They're all fouls, but the refs draw the line on fouling the shooter.

I agree, we do have to adjust. I don't think we came out of the 2/3 at all this year that I can remember? We used to play some man, what happened to that? It is a nice change up.

 

[sutomcat]

I wrote a post about this a couple weeks ago but cannot find it...

Why do people think that we are never going to see these refs again? Many refs work in both the BE and ACC. We will be seeing many of the same refs next season. Look at this list of ACC refs, and you will recognize several names from SU's games:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/conferences/acc/referees

If you look at the numbers on this web site, you will find that John Cahill calls less fouls than almost anyone in the business. It was not a good break for Syracuse that Cahill reffed the UL game. JB was really angry with him a number of times during the game, do not think he is a big fan of John's work.

 

[RMH44]

If you look at the numbers on this web site, you will find that John Cahill calls less fouls than almost anyone in the business. It was not a good break for Syracuse that Cahill reffed the UL game. JB was really angry with him a number of times during the game, do not think he is a big fan of John's work.

The ONLY upside with Cahill (who I think sucks) is that he doesn't showboat. If he were more flamboyant, I'm sure he'd be singled out more often.

MCW would have been better served if we put a saddle on him for the L'ville game. Their guards were bound and determined to ride him hard and put him away wet all in full view of the three blind mice.

All the hand fighting has to stop...it's ruining the game.

 

[ORRange]

If you look at the numbers on this web site, you will find that John Cahill calls less fouls than almost anyone in the business. It was not a good break for Syracuse that Cahill reffed the UL game. JB was really angry with him a number of times during the game, do not think he is a big fan of John's work.

I wish I could give this post a thousand likes, some people don't realize what effect a referee like Cahill can have on a game by not blowing the whistle. Pitt, L'ville and Marquette love refs like Cahill and Kitts.