Big "honor" for Dion

[Fireball Jr.]

Was thrilled for Dion at start of the year when LeBron was touting him and seemingly upbeat over having Dion as a running-mate. Thought Dion was in a great situation. Didn't take long, a few games, for Dion to screw that up.

I see a lot of his games, his offense is meh, defense is improved, but it's become clear, he's not a team player, I can see him becoming a journeyman. What a contrast to see what a team that shares the ball, the Spurs, is doing to OKC at the Thunder's arena tonight. It's OK to be cocky and have a chip on your shoulder, but you have to back it up. He's still young, but I'm afraid Dion just doesn't get it.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2015/04/06/20150406-starters-worst-of-year-waiters.nba/

 

[longislandcuse]

You can't be a role player with zero jumpshot. Dion plays good defense and has skill but not lead dog skill, which means, develop a jumpshot or bounce around never making much of an impact.

 

[jncuse]

5th worst TS% this season in the last 10 years.

 

[PoppyHart]

Remember the "Dion's in a good place" thread and how everyone was quick to say Lebron was not a leader?

:rolling:

 

[Ward]

Was thrilled for Dion at start of the year when LeBron was touting him and seemingly upbeat over having Dion as a running-mate. Thought Dion was in a great situation. Didn't take long, a few games, for Dion to screw that up.

I see a lot of his games, his offense is meh, defense is improved, but it's become clear, he's not a team player, I can see him becoming a journeyman. What a contrast to see what a team that shares the ball, the Spurs, is doing to OKC at the Thunder's arena tonight. It's OK to be cocky and have a chip on your shoulder, but you have to back it up. He's still young, but I'm afraid Dion just doesn't get it.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2015/04/06/20150406-starters-worst-of-year-waiters.nba/

This post and the fact you started a thread specifically to bash one of our former players is unbelievable. This board and fan base loves patting themselves on the back for being such a great fan base yet bashes their former players more than any fan base I've ever seen regardless of collegiate sport and then tries cowardly hiding behind this guise that they're just telling it like it is. Rarely do we see positive threads on our former players and when we do they barely get many posts yet the negative threads will be full of people bitterly posting about guys who left early or loving to rip on guys.

I'm probavly going to get heat for this but whatever someone needs to give some members of this board a dose of reality. Recruits, current college players, and now NBA players all talk and form friendships. It's a small community and Syracuse fans are getting a bad reputation and trending towards very bad. I know this for a fact. The "book" on Syracuse fans is if you're winning and playing well they'll love you. However, once you have a few bad games they'll be quick to boo and if you leave early they'll hope you fail and rarely if ever show support when these kids go and chase their dreams. I mean you even hear it in some of the articles and quotes when they ask Jerami if he regrets leaving college and he says he's happy with his decision and the only negative things he ever hears are from people from Syracuse, Donte Green getting blasted for leaving early, McCullough having to address all the negativity on Twitter, ennis getting hate, threads like these. I mean the list goes on and on.

Like I said people I'm sure are going to tell me I'm wrong and crazy and get upset but what I'm telling you is a fact and something I know to be true. I'm not going to waste my time arguing it when I've heard from players at various big time schools that what I outlined above is the common growing perception of Syracuse fans. Do you think fans at unc, duke, kansas, uk, Arizona, etc act like this when guys leave early? We need to start showing more support for these guys and cheer them on while they chase their dream and stop acting like bitter insecure scorned lovers. It's too bad too because there are a lot of fans who are real good people that genuinely care about our players as people and want them to succeed in chasing their dreams but the negative ones are portraying us all in a bad light.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

This post and the fact you started a thread specifically to bash one of our former players is unbelievable. This board and fan base loves patting themselves on the back for being such a great fan base yet bashes their former players more than any fan base I've ever seen regardless of collegiate sport and then tries cowardly hiding behind this guise that they're just telling it like it is. Rarely do we see positive threads on our former players and when we do they barely get many posts yet the negative threads will be full of people bitterly posting about guys who left early or loving to rip on guys.

I'm probavly going to get heat for this but whatever someone needs to give some members of this board a dose of reality. Recruits, current college players, and now NBA players all talk and form friendships. It's a small community and Syracuse fans are getting a bad reputation and trending towards very bad. I know this for a fact. The "book" on Syracuse fans is if you're winning and playing well they'll love you. However, once you have a few bad games they'll be quick to boo and if you leave early they'll hope you fail and rarely if ever show support when these kids go and chase their dreams. I mean you even hear it in some of the articles and quotes when they ask Jerami if he regrets leaving college and he says he's happy with his decision and the only negative things he ever hears are from people from Syracuse, Donte Green getting blasted for leaving early, McCullough having to address all the negativity on Twitter, ennis getting hate, threads like these. I mean the list goes on and on.

Like I said people I'm sure are going to tell me I'm wrong and crazy and get upset but what I'm telling you is a fact and something I know to be true. I'm not going to waste my time arguing it when I've heard from players at various big time schools that what I outlined above is the common growing perception of Syracuse fans. Do you think fans at unc, duke, kansas, uk, Arizona, etc act like this when guys leave early? We need to start showing more support for these guys and cheer them on while they chase their dream and stop acting like bitter insecure scorned lovers. It's too bad too because there are a lot of fans who are real good people that genuinely care about our players as people and want them to succeed in chasing their dreams but the negative ones are portraying us all in a bad light.

Slow down, cowboy, take a deep breath.

Loved Dion his one big year at 'Cuse. Loved him. I'd be happy to give you contact info for friends who will corroborate that.

I wasn't bashing Dion, I was merely trying to point out that it's unfortunate that he screwed up a good thing in Cleveland and is not looking like he's headed toward having the career I was hoping he'd have. Is it OK to inject here that one of Dion's issues in Cleveland is that he thought, may still think, he's better than Kyrie Irving and supposedly punched him in a locker room kerfuffle.

And, for your reading pleasure, here are posts that a certain poster (me) posted at the beginning of the season gushing over Dion like a little boy.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/let-camp-and-the-games-begin.80519/#post-1147133

http://syracusefan.com/threads/dion-lookin-good.81386/

http://syracusefan.com/threads/dion-carmelo-face-off-on-the-shores-of-lake-erie.82181/

http://syracusefan.com/threads/the-multi-talented-dion-waiters.79656/

 

[bevosu]

Not a big secret that there were rumors that Dion was the anti-glue on the team his freshman year.

Looked like he turned it around measurably his soph year. Always thought he had lots of talent. Something is not working?

 

[Full_Rebar]

If only someone could take some of Dion's self-confidence and merge it with Wes Johnson's timidness, we could have two Cuse alums doing major damage in the NBA. Dion is clearly talented, but he's not running out of time to adapt or else he's destined to bounce around.

It's hard not to think that he might be happier playing on a terrible team and getting 20+ a game instead of having the opportunity to play alongside top 10 NBA players.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Dion is better than Kyrie

 

[CusefanATL]

Remember the "Dion's in a good place" thread and how everyone was quick to say Lebron was not a leader?

:rolling:

and how many people thought dion had gone to heaven with that title

 

[Brooky03]

I think he'll have a productive career. This season is bad but he had a pretty good Sophomore season, so the jury is still out. There are worse things than being a journeyman and making a few million a year in the process.

JR Smith is not great company, but he's been making really good money in the league for quite a while now. And, as somebody who has followed JR to a decent extent since his Denver days, he's also had really, really bad stretches like Dion's had. He's had really good stretches like Dion's capable of, as well. (not that Dion will be knocking down 9 3's in a game anytime soon)

JR gets by on his shooting; Dion will have to strengthen another part of his game in order to elevate beyond being the 7th or 8th guy off the bench. He has a capable jumper, he just needs to be more selective.


Edit: I'm in no way trying to say Dion is near the level of Russell Westbrook, but it's interesting to note that Westbrook is equally as bad or worse than Dion at shooting and finishing (assuming most of his 2pt attempts are near the rim). Obviously Westbrook does about a million other things on the court that Dion doesn't, but it's still interesting that one of the best PG's in the league is one of the most inefficient scorers.

 

[MikeSU02]

Dion's problem isn't raw talent, even though his shot form is hideous.

His biggest problem is understanding where he fits in a system.

JB was right when he alluded to Dion's role being a sixth man off the bench in the NBA to come in and spark some scoring and energy.

Dion has to embrace what he can do and how that translates to the NBA game.

 

[Knicks411]

Edit: I'm in no way trying to say Dion is near the level of Russell Westbrook, but it's interesting to note that Westbrook is equally as bad or worse than Dion at shooting and finishing (assuming most of his 2pt attempts are near the rim). Obviously Westbrook does about a million other things on the court that Dion doesn't, but it's still interesting that one of the best PG's in the league is one of the most inefficient scorers.

Westbrook is not the most efficient scorer, but he's better than Dion. Career 52.4% true shooting, 53.1% this season. Dion is career 48.7%. At the rim, Westbrook is 57% this year, Dion 51%. (for a player as athletically gifted and strong as Westbrook, you'd think 57% is on the low side) Westbrook's usage rate is crazy high, my guess is he could trade some shots for better efficiency, but I guess that's one of those things you just have to accept to get everything else he brings.

 

[Brooky03]

Westbrook is not the most efficient scorer, but he's better than Dion. Career 52.4% true shooting, 53.1% this season. Dion is career 48.7%. At the rim, Westbrook is 57% this year, Dion 51%. (for a player as athletically gifted and strong as Westbrook, you'd think 57% is on the low side) Westbrook's usage rate is crazy high, my guess is he could trade some shots for better efficiency, but I guess that's one of those things you just have to accept to get everything else he brings.

Westbrook has better shot selection for sure. Looking at career numbers, Westbrooks's 3pt shooting is worse and 2pt shooting is marginally better; he just shoots a lot more 2's than 3's, whereas Waiters probably shoots too many 3's. Again, I'm not saying Waiters is at or could get to Westbrook's level; I just thought it would be interesting to note that you don't have to be above average at getting the ball in the hoop to be very successful in the NBA. And again, I'm aware that Westbrook gets a lot more attention from defenses and does a lot of other things on the court (assists and rebounds) that Waiters doesn't do nearly as well.

BTW, looking strictly at shooting, Waiters was seemingly a better shooter/scorer at this point in his career than Westbrook was.

 

[Knicks411]

Westbrook has better shot selection for sure. Looking at career numbers, Westbrooks's 3pt shooting is worse and 2pt shooting is marginally better; he just shoots a lot more 2's than 3's, whereas Waiters probably shoots too many 3's. Again, I'm not saying Waiters is at or could get to Westbrook's level; I just thought it would be interesting to note that you don't have to be above average at getting the ball in the hoop to be very successful in the NBA. And again, I'm aware that Westbrook gets a lot more attention from defenses and does a lot of other things on the court (assists and rebounds) that Waiters doesn't do nearly as well.

BTW, looking strictly at shooting, Waiters was seemingly a better shooter/scorer at this point in his career than Westbrook was.

It's amazing that anyone has worse shot selection than Russ, but it's probably true.

From a pure efficiency POV, the first 2 years of Russ vs. the first 2 years of Dion are basically a wash. Year 3 things started to divert.

 

[jncuse]

Edit: I'm in no way trying to say Dion is near the level of Russell Westbrook, but it's interesting to note that Westbrook is equally as bad or worse than Dion at shooting and finishing (assuming most of his 2pt attempts are near the rim). Obviously Westbrook does about a million other things on the court that Dion doesn't, but it's still interesting that one of the best PG's in the league is one of the most inefficient scorers.

Westbrook's TS% is 53%
Waiters TS% is 45%.

How can you possibly view them as equally as bad, or Russell as worse at shooting? What stats are you looking at?

 

[DoctorBombay]

This post and the fact you started a thread specifically to bash one of our former players is unbelievable. This board and fan base loves patting themselves on the back for being such a great fan base yet bashes their former players more than any fan base I've ever seen regardless of collegiate sport and then tries cowardly hiding behind this guise that they're just telling it like it is. Rarely do we see positive threads on our former players and when we do they barely get many posts yet the negative threads will be full of people bitterly posting about guys who left early or loving to rip on guys.

I'm probavly going to get heat for this but whatever someone needs to give some members of this board a dose of reality. Recruits, current college players, and now NBA players all talk and form friendships. It's a small community and Syracuse fans are getting a bad reputation and trending towards very bad. I know this for a fact. The "book" on Syracuse fans is if you're winning and playing well they'll love you. However, once you have a few bad games they'll be quick to boo and if you leave early they'll hope you fail and rarely if ever show support when these kids go and chase their dreams. I mean you even hear it in some of the articles and quotes when they ask Jerami if he regrets leaving college and he says he's happy with his decision and the only negative things he ever hears are from people from Syracuse, Donte Green getting blasted for leaving early, McCullough having to address all the negativity on Twitter, ennis getting hate, threads like these. I mean the list goes on and on.

Like I said people I'm sure are going to tell me I'm wrong and crazy and get upset but what I'm telling you is a fact and something I know to be true. I'm not going to waste my time arguing it when I've heard from players at various big time schools that what I outlined above is the common growing perception of Syracuse fans. Do you think fans at unc, duke, kansas, uk, Arizona, etc act like this when guys leave early? We need to start showing more support for these guys and cheer them on while they chase their dream and stop acting like bitter insecure scorned lovers. It's too bad too because there are a lot of fans who are real good people that genuinely care about our players as people and want them to succeed in chasing their dreams but the negative ones are portraying us all in a bad light.

Amen, Brother...but you're probably wasting your time. There's a cottage industry that's developed on this board under the guise of "telling it like it is".
I've been on many fan forums but none are as consistently critical, negative, w/ an "I told you so" attitude like this one. And what's most baffling is how some can't wait to"point out a few things" regarding the failings of "our" players...both past and present.
Those of us who call out this persistent emphasis on negativity, are usually branded "homers" who're always seeing things thru "orange-colored glasses".
Whatever the case, what we're witnessing is classic Syracuse insecurity.
To be sure, all fanbases are a bit insecure but we've always been to a greater degree, IMO.
Not sure of the cause of it, but it's been more than apparent on this board at times. JMHO

 

[jncuse]

This post and the fact you started a thread specifically to bash one of our former players is unbelievable. This board and fan base loves patting themselves on the back for being such a great fan base yet bashes their former players more than any fan base I've ever seen regardless of collegiate sport and then tries cowardly hiding behind this guise that they're just telling it like it is. Rarely do we see positive threads on our former players and when we do they barely get many posts yet the negative threads will be full of people bitterly posting about guys who left early or loving to rip on guys.

I'm probavly going to get heat for this but whatever someone needs to give some members of this board a dose of reality. Recruits, current college players, and now NBA players all talk and form friendships. It's a small community and Syracuse fans are getting a bad reputation and trending towards very bad. I know this for a fact. The "book" on Syracuse fans is if you're winning and playing well they'll love you. However, once you have a few bad games they'll be quick to boo and if you leave early they'll hope you fail and rarely if ever show support when these kids go and chase their dreams. I mean you even hear it in some of the articles and quotes when they ask Jerami if he regrets leaving college and he says he's happy with his decision and the only negative things he ever hears are from people from Syracuse, Donte Green getting blasted for leaving early, McCullough having to address all the negativity on Twitter, ennis getting hate, threads like these. I mean the list goes on and on.

Like I said people I'm sure are going to tell me I'm wrong and crazy and get upset but what I'm telling you is a fact and something I know to be true. I'm not going to waste my time arguing it when I've heard from players at various big time schools that what I outlined above is the common growing perception of Syracuse fans. Do you think fans at unc, duke, kansas, uk, Arizona, etc act like this when guys leave early? We need to start showing more support for these guys and cheer them on while they chase their dream and stop acting like bitter insecure scorned lovers. It's too bad too because there are a lot of fans who are real good people that genuinely care about our players as people and want them to succeed in chasing their dreams but the negative ones are portraying us all in a bad light.

I do agree there are people who are way too hard on them while they are here at Syracuse. And there are people who seem to go nuts when people leave early and can't seem to respect their decision. But once in their league I think it's time to analyze players honestly.

I like to follow our past players in the NBA. I like to applaud them or criticize them as professionals. Why should we sugar coat things. Jerami Grant has been a nice story. MCW has been a nice story, although one with many question marks. Nice to see Arinze in the show. And Dion has been a goof -- as an NBA fan why should I feel bad about analyzing the way he has been,

 

[MadisonCuse]

Dion has an extremely low basketball IQ. Combine that with a me first mentality and you are headed to JR Smith land.

 

[Brooky03]

Westbrook's TS% is 53%
Waiters TS% is 45%.

How can you possibly view them as equally as bad, or Russell as worse at shooting? What stats are you looking at?

TS% weights FT% and shot selection. I can't speak for others, but I don't normally consider FT% when I get asked if a player is a good shooter. Westbrook has the clear advantage from the stripe. Westbrook also has the advantage in shot selection, shooting considerably more 2 pointers than 3's.

Edit: I often get TS% and eFG% intertwined, so I could be mistaken about the shot selection part of it, but Westbrook esstentially shoots the shot he's better at shooting in a more favorable ratio to the shot he's bad at shooting than Waiters does. Westbrook is 1 percentage point better from inside the arc and the two have nearly identical eFG%. Waiters is 2 percentage points better from behind the arc and 10 percentage points worse from the FT line. I'm inclined to believe the TS% difference is largely due to the FT%.

If we're saying shot selection is what differentiates a good shooter from a bad shooter, they're both still not too good but yes, Westbrook is the better shooter. If we're looking solely at ability, it's practically even. A Waiters 2 point attempt has almost as good a chance of going in as a Westbrook 2. A Waiters 3 has a better chance of dropping than a Westbrook 3.

I prefer to look at it from an 'ability' standpoint. Waiters has the ability to score but his efficiency isn't the greatest because he puts up bad shots or shoots too many 3's relative to 2's. It's easier to teach a player when to shoot than how to shoot.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

It's painful to watch him waive his arms around at the bottom of the TV screen screaming for the ball every possession. When he does get the ball, more times than not he chucks up a bad shot or drives wildly to the hoop to throw up a prayer and scream "and one!" Still rooting for the guy but I'm sure he'll wear out his welcome in OKC.

 

[Ward]

I do agree there are people who are way too hard on them while they are here at Syracuse. And there are people who seem to go nuts when people leave early and can't seem to respect their decision. But once in their league I think it's time to analyze players honestly.

I like to follow our past players in the NBA. I like to applaud them or criticize them as professionals. Why should we sugar coat things. Jerami Grant has been a nice story. MCW has been a nice story, although one with many question marks. Nice to see Arinze in the show. And Dion has been a goof -- as an NBA fan why should I feel bad about analyzing the way he has been,

I agree with you 100%. Objective discussion about our guys at the next level is great and a lot of fun as fans. There's no denying Dion has had some ups and downs as a pro. My point was more so in that when one of our guys does well there might be a thread of maybe 7-10 replies. Meanwhile, when one of our guys struggles we have a 2-3 page thread on people trying to kick them while they're down and saying how they never should have left. And as far as when guys announce they're leaving early it's like so many of the people on here basically hope for them to fail with a "serves him right for leaving us" type attitude.

Just to clarify I wasn't directing it towards any and everyone who has ever said anything critical about a current or former player. It's impossible to have any worthwhile discussion without doing so. It was more just the growing presence of posters and fans who it seems like would rather see our guys fail than succeed.

 

[Knicks411]

I agree with you 100%. Objective discussion about our guys at the next level is great and a lot of fun as fans. There's no denying Dion has had some ups and downs as a pro. My point was more so in that when one of our guys does well there might be a thread of maybe 7-10 replies. Meanwhile, when one of our guys struggles we have a 2-3 page thread on people trying to kick them while they're down and saying how they never should have left. And as far as when guys announce they're leaving early it's like so many of the people on here basically hope for them to fail with a "serves him right for leaving us" type attitude.

I agree with this part and that kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I don't think there's much of that with the Dion evaluation.

 

[kirbivore]

Was thrilled for Dion at start of the year when LeBron was touting him and seemingly upbeat over having Dion as a running-mate. Thought Dion was in a great situation. Didn't take long, a few games, for Dion to screw that up.

I see a lot of his games, his offense is meh, defense is improved, but it's become clear, he's not a team player, I can see him becoming a journeyman. What a contrast to see what a team that shares the ball, the Spurs, is doing to OKC at the Thunder's arena tonight. It's OK to be cocky and have a chip on your shoulder, but you have to back it up. He's still young, but I'm afraid Dion just doesn't get it.
http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2015/04/06/20150406-starters-worst-of-year-waiters.nba/

He's off the team now, so why the need to trash him? You should be looking for a new scapegoat if coach/GM LeBron doesn't win this year.

 

[Fireball Jr.]

He's off the team now, so why the need to trash him? You should be looking for a new scapegoat if coach/GM LeBron doesn't win this year.

I saw Dion as potentially a new DWade with LeBron having his back and being under his wing. I was disappointed things didn't work out for him in Cleveland. I wasn't trashing Dion, or attempting to, merely pointing out an observation that's not mine alone: he's not on the fast track to living up to expectations for someone with so much talent, and that, I believe, is sad. And at some point Dion must check himself before he wreck himself (Google "Ice Cube lyrics").

I was a huge Dion fan his first two seasons, long before LBJ became GM, all but fellated Dion at the start of the season, the posts are there for you to see. So, in your mind you see trashing, I see observation and disappointment. Including the observation that you've made note that I am a LeBron fan and you're not. Duly noted.