Bill Snyder of K-State

[OrangePA]

When we first played K-State in the Fiesta Bowl back in 1998, I went to the game and read the interviews.

One that caught my attention was Bill Snyder's interview with I think Dave Rahme.

He indicated that he had watched I think not only every SU game that year but every SU game for the previous four or five years. I also recall him stating that this game against the Orange was not just important but more important than anything.

I remember thinking that maybe this guy worked harder than P - I didn't think that was possible - and that we were in trouble.

After the game I checked out Snyder's history and learned what an amazing job he had done at Kansas State.

And, of course, we ended up playing him two more times in bowl games. I found myself rooting for the Purple Wildcats.

After Snyder left K-State a few years ago, the program tumbled. Now he's back and his team is I think either 5-0 or 6-0.

For all my talk about talent being the key to success in college footbal, I have to say that here is one example - and there are very few of them - where the coach does make a difference.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

yep and spurrier plays golf 2 times a week during the season, its nonsense. There are guys that run their own businesses that work 90 hours a week and guys that run their own businesses that work 30 hours a week. It all has to do how much faith you are willing to put in others and delegate.. These football coaches relish in the hours that they work. again they get paid millions of dollars to coach a kids game and basically have many have said here are the worlds most overpaid gym (sorry, phys ed) teachers

 

[OrangePA]

yep and spurrier plays golf 2 times a week during the season, its nonsense. There are guys that run their own businesses that work 90 hours a week and guys that run their own businesses that work 30 hours a week. It all has to do how much faith you are willing to put in others and delegate.. These football coaches relish in the hours that they work. again they get paid millions of dollars to coach a kids game and basically have many have said here are the worlds most overpaid gym (sorry, phys ed) teachers

I didn't mean to suggest that hours invested equals success.

I suspect that that is not always the case.

I just meant to say that this guy, however he does it, is an amazing coach, who at nearly 70 is still a great coach.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I didn't mean to suggest that hour invested equals success.

I suspect that that is not always the case.

I just meant to say that this guy, however he does it, is an amazing coach, who at nearly 70 is still a great coach.

agree 100%, he is a great coach

 

[dash-30-dash]

I always get a laugh at the moronic comment that these guys are the most overpaid gym teachers. It is always said by guys that have no idea how much each and everyone of these guys know about football. It's like guys that watch baseball and think they could manage a major league team. No you couldn't. And most have no idea what they don't know about football. lawyers for example are much more like gym teachers. Almost anyone can get a law degree. Very few people that have played football could coach it and no one who never played football could coach it.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I always get a laugh at the moronic comment that these guys are the most overpaid gym teachers. It is always said by guys that have no idea how much each and everyone of these guys know about football. It's like guys that watch baseball and think they could manage a major league team. No you couldn't. And most have no idea what they don't know about football. lawyers for example are much more like gym teachers. Almost anyone can get a law degree. Very few people that have played football coud coach it and no one who never played football could coach it.

Mike Leach never played football beyond JV.. I think he can coach it. This is a really dumb post. take a guy a like Marrone or Coach P, I think they are of average intelligence or slightly below at best, do you think he would be making 7 figures if he pursued a different profession, I highly doubt it. Like I said, a really dumb post.

There are people who have coached at the high school level in baseball or football that know as much or more about the game then some of the guys at the higher levels, its just how much you want to work and not have any familiy life or how much you want to suck really.. That is what it comes down to for a lot of these guys. Like I said, really bad post

Your post also shows that you haven't been around sports enough either coaching, participating on any level
other than watching them on. Coaches are coaches and some of the best ever are still at the high school or d3 level in all sports

 

[SWC75]

For all my talk about talent being the key to success in college footbal, I have to say that here is one example - and there are very few of them - where the coach does make a difference.

Her's another: G-Rob, who was clearly a worse coach than the guy who preceeded him and the guy who followed him. Coaches make a huge difference.

 

[dash-30-dash]

Ithaca Barrall, I coached a American Legion baseball team to the final four in the state of mass. You know nothing about me. Nothing. Your post is really dumb if you believe there are a lot of high school coaches that know more then college coaches. How do you know how smart marrone or anyone else is? You don't. There are a lot of lawyers that couldn't make a lot of money doing anything else as well. Or by the way, in the state semi's, it took one of the best pitchers in the country to beat us 2-1 to knock us out. His name was Ron Darling. Quite frankly, any time I read that someone else made it because they didn't want to give up family time or someone else had to s**k someone else's **** I also always laugh. Typical losers lament. Might as well blame the refs. But seeing how you said Nassib is the worst qb ever at syracuse, I'll consider the source. Oh, and your hero leach is a punk.

 

[PoppyHart]

I contend that an awful lot of people, regardless of any background playing the game, could competently manage a major league baseball team. They would be less likely to succeed, however, simply b/c they would not receive the buy-in from the spoiled players. Football, though, is a completely different animal.

 

[dash-30-dash]

No they couldn't. Could people say, on any given game, take this pitcher out and bring this pitcher in as well as any manager in the game. 100% yes. Could they send up this hitter for that hitter at just the right time. 100% yes. Could they make those decisions with a 162 game schedule? 100% no. Fans think that every game is the 7th game of the world series and manage accordingly. Why isn't someone up and ready to come to take the starter out? A pro knows if you get guys up, over the long run, you burn your bullpen out. There is so much more to it then fans realize. One game, yes most could do it. Long season, not a chance.

 

[dash-30-dash]

And more to IB's point about coaches in high school and college, talk to jb about high school coaches and their comparison to college coaches.

 

[Bayside44]

I think IB has a point to the extent that it isn't always innate knowledge or skill of a subject matter as much as it is the ability of a person to suffer through and go through the ranks.

Our best citizens don't run for public office either nor do the brightest run the biggest campaigns. Many self select into these career choices.

 

[dash-30-dash]

I think for the most part, cream rises to the top. It isn't luck.

 

[PoppyHart]

If some scrawny kid in high school 15 years ago said "I can be a great general manager of a baseball team", people would have laughed at him b/c he never played the game, or at the very least, he didn't live and breathe the game or benefit from the gross nepotism that infiltrates professional baseball. But from these geeks came innovation that has infiltrated pretty much every MLB organization.

Similarly, at the field level, there are thousands of insanely smart individuals who just happen to be plying a different trade for a variety of reasons. I have no doubt that many of these people are smart enough to at least understand the nuances of the game, but in addition bring never before seen approaches to the game, whether from a statistical, scientific, or psychological perspective, that would be the equivalent of the Moneyball generation.

 

[PoppyHart]

I think IB has a point to the extent that it isn't always innate knowledge or skill of a subject matter as much as it is the ability of a person to suffer through and go through the ranks.

Our best citizens don't run for public office either nor do the brightest run the biggest campaigns. Many self select into these career choices.

This is especially true in the sports industry, where supply and demand are so out of whack.

 

[dash-30-dash]

you do know that billy beane was a first round pick, right? And G.M. is a whole differnt ballgame. It requires a different skill set. Geeks can succeed quite well at that.

 

[dollarbill44]

If some scrawny kid in high school 15 years ago said "I can be a great general manager of a baseball team", people would have laughed at him b/c he never played the game, or at the very least, he didn't live and breathe the game or benefit from the gross nepotism that infiltrates professional baseball. But from these geeks came innovation that has infiltrated pretty much every MLB organization.

GM and Manager are two entirely different jobs requiring different skill sets.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

If some scrawny kid in high school 15 years ago said "I can be a great general manager of a baseball team", people would have laughed at him b/c he never played the game, or at the very least, he didn't live and breathe the game or benefit from the gross nepotism that infiltrates professional baseball. But from these geeks came innovation that has infiltrated pretty much every MLB organization.

Similarly, at the field level, there are thousands of insanely smart individuals who just happen to be plying a different trade for a variety of reasons. I have no doubt that many of these people are smart enough to at least understand the nuances of the game, but in addition bring never before seen approaches to the game, whether from a statistical, scientific, or psychological perspective, that would be the equivalent of the Moneyball generation.

Big difference between GM and managing. Also the "geeks" brought computers and a different variety of analysis... nothing more and nothing less than has been brought to every modern industry, it just gets talked about more in regards to baseball, for various reasons. As far as managing, of course there are many who could do the job if they dedicated their lives to it, but the average fan would have no chance, and the natural selection of the highest level makes it a whole lot harder than just knowing the game.

 

[PoppyHart]

GM and Manager are two entirely different jobs requiring different skill sets.

I'm not saying they require the same skill sets. I'm saying that a little out-of-the-box thinking may do some good every once in a while. There is nothing, other than the fact that the spoiled athletes would not accept a "non-baseball" guy, that leads me to believe that a background in playing baseball is a requirement to managing effectively.

 

[jekelish]

Snyder actually worked as an assistant for a year or two at the D3 school I work at way back in the day, and he also helped with the swim team, from what I hear. Well, to give you an idea of how many hours the guy logged even then, they discovered he was spending a lot of nights sleeping in the office right outside the pool (because he was on campus working basically all hours of the day) and the AD had to basically flat out tell him to stop.

 

[PoppyHart]

Big difference between GM and managing. Also the "geeks" brought computers and a different variety of analysis... nothing more and nothing less than has been brought to every modern industry, it just gets talked about more in regards to baseball, for various reasons. As far as managing, of course there are many who could do the job if they dedicated their lives to it, but the average fan would have no chance, and the natural selection of the highest level makes it a whole lot harder than just knowing the game.

Who said anything about the "average fan"? This argument is about whether one must play the game to manage. I'm simply asserting that there are heck of a lot of people, who are not "average fans", that have the game knowledge, intellect, and other attributes needed to do so. Managing a baseball team is not remotely close to being a skilled profession (doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, etc...) It's a network of insiders perpetuating a myth.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Who said anything about the "average fan"? This argument is about whether one must play the game to manage. I'm simply asserting that there are heck of a lot of people, who are not "average fans", that have the game knowledge, intellect, and other attributes needed to do so. Managing a baseball team is not remotely close to being a skilled profession (doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientists, etc...) It's a network of insiders perpetuating a myth.

How exactly is what you are describing any different than many, if not most, high-profile careers? Or even low-level careers? You call these people spoiled players, but if the average working man (at least those I have worked with over the years) are hard-pressed to accept a supervisor who has less experience in the field than they do, why do you think people who are at the very top of their profession would bend over backwards for unproven leadership? While there are certainly exceptions to the rule, if you can't realistically see why players may have difficulty laying it on the line for someone who hasn't been through the 162-game battles themselves, then there really is no sense examining the other aspects of the debate.

 

[PoppyHart]

How exactly is what you are describing any different than many, if not most, high-profile careers? Or even low-level careers? You call these people spoiled players, but if the average working man (at least those I have worked with over the years) are hard-pressed to accept a supervisor who has less experience in the field than they do, why do you think people who are at the very top of their profession would bend over backwards for unproven leadership? While there are certainly exceptions to the rule, if you can't realistically see why players may have difficulty laying it on the line for someone who hasn't been through the 162-game battles themselves, then there really is no sense examining the other aspects of the debate.

It is like many, if not most, high profile careers. And that is exactly my point. If you read this whole thread, you'd see that. But you'd see that another poster posited the opposite, citing the supposing grueling nature of a 162-game season that surely must make the head explode for anything but the poorly educated, but street smart, baseball manager.

 

[dash-30-dash]

what I am saying is that the "above average " fan has no idea what he doesn't know about the game of baseball. The real baseball man may not know much about a lot of things but being around the game his entire life sets him apart from the above average fan. managing is hardly about gee, should I bunt here.

 

[Czar]

what I am saying is that the "above average " fan has no idea what he doesn't know about the game of baseball. The real baseball man may not know much about a lot of things but being around the game his entire life sets him apart from the above average fan. managing is hardly about gee, should I bunt here.

Then what is it about, because by all impressions of the game Baseball is the game where the person coaching a team has the least impact during game time.