Bill Snyder of K-State

[dash-30-dash]

"least impact". true when you compare it to football, basketball or hockey. But that doesn't mean they have little impact.

 

[orangenirvana]

Great thread. Some good back and forth in here. I don't know where I stand on the topic, but interesting to read the perspectives from both sides.

 

[OrangePA]

Her's another: G-Rob, who was clearly a worse coach than the guy who preceeded him and the guy who followed him. Coaches make a huge difference.

Greg Robinson was clearly not prepared to be a HC when he arrived in 2005.

It's hard to believe that a career football coach could be so unprepared.

That lack of preparation and the timing of the hire, prevented him from bringing in a cohesive staff. And, he had no reference points in the NE - he had no recruiting base at all.

The hiring of Bill Snyder by K-State was based entirely on "preparation" for that particular job.

He was not identified by name, but by coaching position.

The AD at K-State looked for a midwest program that had been turned around. He identified Iowa - a program that had been down for years and had become very competitive program under Hayden Fry.

He knew that Fry wouldn't leave Iowa for K-State, so he figured he would focus on the two coordinators who worked under Fry, though he had no idea who they were.

One of those coordinators - the OC - Snyder was hired.

Bill Snyder was totally prepared for the job at K-State since he recruited in the midwest and was in the middle of the kind of turnaound at Iowa that K-State would attempt to achieve.

Snyder was prepared for his job. Robinson was not prepared for the Syracuse job.

Marrone on the other hand was very prepared for the Syracuse job.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Ithaca Barrall, I coached a American Legion baseball team to the final four in the state of mass. You know nothing about me. Nothing. Your post is really dumb if you believe there are a lot of high school coaches that know more then college coaches. How do you know how smart marrone or anyone else is? You don't. There are a lot of lawyers that couldn't make a lot of money doing anything else as well. Or by the way, in the state semi's, it took one of the best pitchers in the country to beat us 2-1 to knock us out. His name was Ron Darling. Quite frankly, any time I read that someone else made it because they didn't want to give up family time or someone else had to s**k someone else's **** I also always laugh. Typical losers lament. Might as well blame the refs. But seeing how you said Nassib is
the worst qb ever at syracuse, I'll consider the source. Oh, and your hero leach is a punk.

American legion? Wow who cares. Another bad post. Do you think that mike Messeere at west genny knows any less about the game of lacrosse than Desko? That is my point, different sport but same principle? Or how about this is Gino auriemma less of a basketball coach or not as good as say Jim Calhoun? Is the head coach at mount union a better football coach than Jim tressel. I don't think it matters what level, the players get better some things won't work, but there are a ton of great coaches out there coaching at the smaller collegiate level and yes the high school level as well. Jb like yourself is a grumpy old buzzard. Yes, he is a great coach but still he loves to spout off about anything

Show me a guy who is successful at one level in college, I bet he can jump to the next and be successful like Paul johnson, Brian Kelly, holgorsen and yes mike leach.

 

[Millhouse]

American legion? Wow who cares. Another bad post. Do you think that mike Messeere at west genny knows any less about the game of lacrosse than Desko? That is my point, different sport but same principle? Or how about this is Gino auriemma less of a basketball coach or not as good as say Jim Calhoun? Is the head coach at mount union a better football coach than Jim tressel. I don't think it matters what level, the players get better some things won't work, but there are a ton of great coaches out there coaching at the smaller collegiate level and yes the high school level as well. Jb like yourself is a grumpy old buzzard. Yes, he is a great coach but still he loves to spout off about anything

Show me a guy who is successful at one level in college, I bet he can jump to the next and be successful like Paul johnson, Brian Kelly, holgorsen and yes mike leach.

and boeheim was this close to coaching golf and basketball at u of rochester which would've made him a nobody

 

[kingottoiii]

Mike Leach never played football beyond JV.. I think he can coach it. This is a really dumb post. take a guy a like Marrone or Coach P, I think they are of average intelligence or slightly below at best, do you think he would be making 7 figures if he pursued a different profession, I highly doubt it. Like I said, a really dumb post.

There are people who have coached at the high school level in baseball or football that know as much or more about the game then some of the guys at the higher levels, its just how much you want to work and not have any familiy life or how much **** you want to suck really.. That is what it comes down to for a lot of these guys. Like I said, really bad post

Your post also shows that you haven't been around sports enough either coaching, participating on any level
other than watching them on. Coaches are coaches and some of the best ever are still at the high school or d3 level in all sports

I have believed for quite some time that when it comes to being a good HC/OC/DC it has more to do with intelligence than knowledge. I believe that the game is a strategic one, and you need a certain level of intelligence to be successful.

However to be a position coach you need to have a vast amount of experience to be successful. These positions are on a micro level while the others are on a macro level. The knowledge and intelligence needed for each differs greatly. So technically a HS position coach would know more about FB than any fan every would. However at the same time a bad CFB HC could technically not understand a game as well as an intelligent fan.

 

[dash-30-dash]

who said he would have stayed at rochester? I will go real slow for you IB. You brought up whether I played or coached. Not me. And yes it was dumb of you to do so since none of us have any idea about most of the people that post here. I played football, basketball and baseball in high school. I coached a legion team to the final four in the state. A team that hadn't had a winning season for 10 years before I coached and for 10 years after I left. But I know I couldn't have managed a major league team with the knowledge I had. Think what you want. As Bees said, it will be different with you the next day. I am reminded of John Madden talking about going to a coaching clinic of Vince Lombardi. He said he was a young coach who knew everything. When he left, he said I know nothing. That is what would happen if the above average fan spent time with a major league manager.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

If you read this whole thread, you'd see that. But you'd see that another poster posited the opposite, citing the supposing grueling nature of a 162-game season that surely must make the head explode for anything but the poorly educated, but street smart, baseball manager.

I have read the entire thread and have agreed with you in certain aspects. I don't think it is inconceivable for a "regular joe" to dedicate his life to baseball and become a good big league manager. But there are thousands of coaches trying to work their way up the ladder, and unless the guy with no experience can bring something amazing to the table, GMs and presidents are not going to stick their necks out for candidates that haven't played or haven't fought their way up the system, just to vindicate PoppyHart's stance that the job is overrated.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

"least impact". true when you compare it to football, basketball or hockey. But that doesn't mean they have little impact.

A lot of college coaches relay every pitch call to the catcher. As well as dictate most of, if not all, the offensive strategy. I believe this is even happening at the powerhouses, especially now that the new bat requirements mean a drastic shift back to small ball. At this level, I would say the impact is as high as any sport. At the pro-level, where MLB players have the green light to govern themselves much more often, it surely isn't as high as in the NFL, but I think it ranks higher than basketball, and I would guess hockey, but I am not a fan so don't quote me. Coaches in basketball spend more time jawing with officials than their players.

 

[PoppyHart]

Of course it won't happen. A creative owner, perhaps a Mark Cuban type, would be wise to contemplate it. Nevertheless, managing the egos of the players is so important that upper management will shy away every time.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

American legion? Wow who cares. Another bad post. Do you think that mike Messeere at west genny knows any less about the game of lacrosse than Desko? That is my point, different sport but same principle? Or how about this is Gino auriemma less of a basketball coach or not as good as say Jim Calhoun? Is the head coach at mount union a better football coach than Jim tressel. I don't think it matters what level, the players get better some things won't work, but there are a ton of great coaches out there coaching at the smaller collegiate level and yes the high school level as well. Jb like yourself is a grumpy old buzzard. Yes, he is a great coach but still he loves to spout off about anything

Show me a guy who is successful at one level in college, I bet he can jump to the next and be successful like Paul johnson, Brian Kelly, holgorsen and yes mike leach.

One moment you are disregarding Dash's experience and success as an American Legion coach, but the next you go back to bellowing about how coaches hailing from smaller beginnings can be just as good as those at big schools or the pros. I agree with you that there are a lot of great coaches at smaller venues, but how do you bash Dash's lower-level experience, only to say that the gap between talented coaches at various levels of the sport is much more narrow than most people think.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

Of course it won't happen. A creative owner, perhaps a Mark Cuban type, would be wise to contemplate it. Nevertheless, managing the egos of the players is so important that upper management will shy away every time.

Why would it be considered creative to take a guy who doesn't stand out amongst his peers, and has no previous experience? That wouldn't be creative, it would be stupid.

 

[OrangePA]

Mike Leach never played football beyond JV.. I think he can coach it. This is a really dumb post. take a guy a like Marrone or Coach P, I think they are of average intelligence or slightly below at best, do you think he would be making 7 figures if he pursued a different profession, I highly doubt it. Like I said, a really dumb post.

There are people who have coached at the high school level in baseball or football that know as much or more about the game then some of the guys at the higher levels, its just how much you want to work and not have any familiy life or how much **** you want to suck really.. That is what it comes down to for a lot of these guys. Like I said, really bad post

Your post also shows that you haven't been around sports enough either coaching, participating on any level
other than watching them on. Coaches are coaches and some of the best ever are still at the high school or d3 level in all sports

Well, being a HC at a major college football program involves much more than the game itself.

It involves running an operation of probably 120 people - a small to medium-sized business.

It also involves everything from personnel, to logistics, to academics, to inter college business interaction, to scheduling, to equipment issues, to psychology/sociology, to media relations to recruting, to economics.

The job requires tremendous organizational skills and organizational behavior skills.

It's not just about football strategy anymore.

I suspect that the coaches who succeed on the major college level are smart and the ones that don't are not as smart.I have no doubt that Joe Paterno is a very smart guy. I suspect that Bill Snyder is also a really smart guy.

And, based upon what I have seen and read, Doug Marrone is a very thoughtful and bright guy.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

One moment you are disregarding Dash's experience and success as an American Legion coach, but the next you go back to bellowing about how coaches hailing from smaller beginnings can be just as good as those at big schools or the pros. I agree with you that there are a lot of great coaches at smaller venues, but how do you bash Dash's lower-level experience, only to say that the gap between talented coaches at various levels of the sport is much more narrow than most people think.

are you comparing a high school coach with 20-25 years of experience, clinics, who has done their homeworkover the years.. Maybe Bees should answer that question, there is no comparison between the two three years of coaching Legion versus a guy like Tom Dotterrer at CBA, what is wrong with you people? What

I coached two summers in the Nothern California 17 and under all stars with a good buddy of mine that played at Cal Santa Clara, 3 kids who went onto professional careers. BFD, doesn't qualify me as much as some of these seasoned HS coaches, I am talking about experience, not play time.. Hey I had a ton of fun, but lets be clear here it's not like coaching year in year out

 

[Millhouse]

who said he would have stayed at rochester? I will go real slow for you IB. You brought up whether I played or coached. Not me. And yes it was dumb of you to do so since none of us have any idea about most of the people that post here. I played football, basketball and baseball in high school. I coached a legion team to the final four in the state. A team that hadn't had a winning season for 10 years before I coached and for 10 years after I left. But I know I couldn't have managed a major league team with the knowledge I had. Think what you want. As Bees said, it will be different with you the next day. I am reminded of John Madden talking about going to a coaching clinic of Vince Lombardi. He said he was a young coach who knew everything. When he left, he said I know nothing. That is what would happen if the above average fan spent time with a major league manager.

you are a true renaissance man

 

[SWC75]

This thread is a touching tribute to Bill Snyder.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

are you comparing a high school coach with 20-25 years of experience, clinics, who has done their homeworkover the years.. Maybe Bees should answer that question, there is no comparison between the two three years of coaching Legion versus a guy like Tom Dotterrer at CBA, what is wrong with you people? What

I coached two summers in the Nothern California 17 and under all stars with a good buddy of mine that played at Cal Santa Clara, 3 kids who went onto professional careers. BFD, doesn't qualify me as much as some of these seasoned HS coaches, I am talking about experience, not play time.. Hey I had a ton of fun, but lets be clear here it's not like coaching year in year out

I am just trying to point out an odd contradiction. You take it upon yourself to minimize the difference between high-level coaches and lower level coaches, but then crush the title of American Legion coach vs a HS coach. Just seems backwards to me, and I would guess, most people.

Also, why are you mentioning so many individuals? Leach, Dotterrer, Messeer, and Auriemma, etc. The Dotterrer line especially. Trying to make it sound like I was comparing two- years of legion ball with 20+ years of HS coaching isn't an honest recount of what I said. Anyway, Perhaps I have forgotten by now, but I thought the main debate was whether on not everyday folk could coach at a high level, and then that also split into just how important it was to have played at a high level to coach there. It's an argument of generalities, of course there are going to be exceptions to the rule. Surely there are many who could have gone on to a higher level, but felt a stronger attachment to things such as community, family, working with younger kids, or just plain old not wanting to struggle their way up the ladder. But by making that choice, they traded in the opportunity to join the thousands of individuals trying to make it to the highest levels, and the chance to prove how far up the hierarchy they could really get.

 

[Phillymoose]

I think the more stoppages there are, the more coaching impacts the outcome. Football, baseball, basketball - lots of stoppages and therefore lots of in-game decisions and coaching. Hockey and (even less) soccer - very few stoppages and therefore players are forced to make more decisions for themselves. Choosing line pairings and face-off matchups is much less impactful than calling blitzes, choosing to hit and run, or isolating a big man in the post. You really don't 'call plays' in hockey and soccer the way you do in other sports.

And, no, I have nothing interesting to contribute to primary discussions going on in this thread.