Boeheim #12 is ESPN Top 50 Coaches Countdown

[HOFCeluck]

I don't think I could really care any less about espn and their rankings, but JB at #12 is bordering on criminal.

Those of you extolling paypal, does that include the ridiculou$ly talented team the year before last that he coached all the way to a first round NIT loss to Robert Morris?

The one sandwiched between a final four and national championship? The one that lost its starting center to an ACL tear?

I get that he's shady, but being shady and being a good coach are not mutually exclusive.

 

[thebigeast44]

I was thinking around 7-8 myself. List is full of BS IMHO. But they are looking to create some disagreement during the dead time of the year for college basketball - so no surprise they would rank some coaches lower or higher than they should be realistically.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

Calipari is an excellent coach.

I would agree if he had more championships to go with basically the best recruiting class every year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I would agree if he had more championships to go with basically the best recruiting class every year.

Right, because that's the standard we hold every other coach to.

He's been getting that type of class for five years (since he's been at UK). He's been to the final four three times, the elite eight once, and has a title. I would say he's getting a pretty good return...especially since he reloads with essentially a new team every year.

 

[SmilinBob]

I'm thrilled and thankful that SU has had Jim Boeheim as their basketball coach. Ratings are for people to debate and argue about.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

Right, because that's the standard we hold every other coach to.

He's been getting that type of class for five years (since he's been at UK). He's been to the final four three times, the elite eight once, and has a title. I would say he's getting a pretty good return...especially since he reloads with essentially a new team every year.

That's right, we need a coach who takes great talent and gets pretty good results over a coach who gets mid talent and can win a championship I am pretty sure a coach should be able to "coach" his players up. At least I thought that was what coaches do.

Another thing we look for in a coach is controversy and racism.

You are right. Calipari is great

 

[HOFCeluck]

That's right, we need a coach who takes great talent and gets pretty good results over a coach who gets mid talent and can win a championship I am pretty sure a coach should be able to "coach" his players up. At least I thought that was what coaches do.

Another thing we look for in a coach is controversy and racism.

You are right. Calipari is great

Who are these coaches who are winning titles with "mid talent?"

 

[cuseinchina]

If this is about current performance I'd say this is a generous ranking... would you say that this year's team was well coached and lived up to it's potential? would you say the team got better or worse over the course of the season? They went undefeated for so long but the cracks were clear around the edges and instead of altering course even a little he just followed it through to the logical conclusion - which was that luck would run out and it ran out hard. I think he cared more about the potential of having an undefeated season than he did about preparing the team to compete in the tournament. Once that bubble was popped it all went to sh&t. He's clearly a top 5-10 coach historically...but this year it's tough to say he did a great job. And yes I know the team overachieved pre-season expectations...that's not the point because the team was better than expected right from the start.

 

[AZOrange]

There's a lot of insane peeps in this thread. That article is horrible, even by Brennan's standards.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

Who are these coaches who are winning titles with "mid talent?"

I didn't say winning titles since your comment "Right, because that's the standard we hold every other coach to." I guess means that championships aren't the measuring stick. (I am sure when a team brings a potential coach in, that's what they talk about "we want you to just win us a lot of games, don't worry about championships" sounds about right).

I said can meaning they are competing and getting into the elite 8, final 4 or championship game or something close

That would make Butler 2 years in a row the most recent team with coach Brad Stevens

 

[SoBeCuse]

I didn't say winning titles since your comment "Right, because that's the standard we hold every other coach to." I guess means that championships aren't the measuring stick. (I am sure when a team brings a potential coach in, that's what they talk about "we want you to just win us a lot of games, don't worry about championships" sounds about right).

I said can meaning they are competing and getting into the elite 8, final 4 or championship game or something close

That would make Butler 2 years in a row the most recent team with coach Brad Stevens

Calipari is a very good/great coach. Ask any coach or intelligent analyst or former player. He had that class with no chemistry, the Noel injury, etc., who lost to Robert Morris. Most of these players improve under him. I don't know if JB would have the patience and energy to coach a mostly all freshman diva squad, frankly. Maybe he could. Calipari does a great job of managing egos, pushing the players, running high energy practices, for a program with the most media attention and circus following them locally and nationally. No-brainer.

 

[CuseFanInFl]

Calipari is a very good/great coach. Ask any coach or intelligent analyst or former player. He had that class with no chemistry, the Noel injury, etc., who lost to Robert Morris. Most of these players improve under him. I don't know if JB would have the patience and energy to coach a mostly all freshman diva squad, frankly. Maybe he could. Calipari does a great job of managing egos, pushing the players, running high energy practices, for a program with the most media attention and circus following them locally and nationally. No-brainer.

Well I haven't said Boeheim should be ranked higher or lower than Calipari so Im not comparing them. To me, if Calipari was very good/great, he would have coached up Noels backup to be able to step in and not lose a whole lot of production. He would be able to coach the team so they have chemistry. I agree that most of his players improve but most players do any just by playing more, he doesn't push them above and beyond what they are projected as like some other coaches. Do I believe Calipari should be top 10 coach overall? no. Do I believe he is at least top 3 recruiting? yes. And recruiting is part of coaching so he does deserve a place on this list. Just not sure it should be top 10

 

[SoBeCuse]

Well I haven't said Boeheim should be ranked higher or lower than Calipari so Im not comparing them. To me, if Calipari was very good/great, he would have coached up Noels backup to be able to step in and not lose a whole lot of production. He would be able to coach the team so they have chemistry. I agree that most of his players improve but most players do any just by playing more, he doesn't push them above and beyond what they are projected as like some other coaches. Do I believe Calipari should be top 10 coach overall? no. Do I believe he is at least top 3 recruiting? yes. And recruiting is part of coaching so he does deserve a place on this list. Just not sure it should be top 10

I'm not really comparing them either but managing the team, egos, pressure, is a HUGE part of it. Just not sure how JB would fare with the divas at UK.

I'm not sure any coach can coach up a backup to come in and replace the #1 recruit in the country like a Noel. Cauley-Stein then and now is still so raw. It just doesn't work like that. We should know how that feels when a key guy goes down. See Fab, Arinze, etc.

 

[Quazzum69]

To me, if Calipari was very good/great, he would have coached up Noels backup to be able to step in and not lose a whole lot of production.

Wasn't there that Lee kid this year who backed up Dakari Johnson/ Cauley-Stein and had some huge plays during their tournament run?

 

[Briancuse]

I'm not really comparing them either but managing the team, egos, pressure, is a HUGE part of it. Just not sure how JB would fare with the divas at UK.

I'm not sure any coach can coach up a backup to come in and replace the #1 recruit in the country like a Noel. Cauley-Stein then and now is still so raw. It just doesn't work like that. We should know how that feels when a key guy goes down. See Fab, Arinze, etc.

I don't think jb would fare well in lexington having to deal with that media and fan base. Ya he takes some heat now, but it is insane down there.

 

[Mistakebythelake90]

From Nunes/Brent Axe's article on the rankings:

"Of the 11 coaches that will be ranked ahead of Boeheim, four haven't won a national title: Michigan's John Beilein, Wisconsin's Bo Ryan, Arizona's Sean Miller and Wichita State's Gregg Marshall. Ryan has been to just one Final Four. Miller has been to none.

The other coaches that will be ranked ahead of Boeheim are Duke's Mike Krzyzewski, Louisville's Rick Pitino, Kentucky's John Calipari, Michigan State's Tom Izzo, Kansas' Bill Self, Florida's Billy Donovan and Connecticut's Kevin Ollie."

I think that Boeheim should be ahead of all the guys who haven't won a title, and it isn't even due to title vs. no. I just think he's a better coach then all four. Boeheim has accomplished more than pretty much all 4 combined, and it isn't like Syracuse has been a slouch these past few years. It seems like the list is putting a ton of weight in last seasons results. Did people really forget that just two year Syracuse was in the final four?

Even among the coaches in the other list, I think you can make arguements about JB being a better coach than Self and Ollie. Self because Kansas seems to always underachieve with what they have, and Ollie because it remains to be seen wether or not this past year was the norm or an anomaly.

In a vacuum, 12th best seems like a fine number for Boeheim, until you look at some of the coaches ahead of him.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

From Nunes/Brent Axe's article on the rankings:





I think that Boeheim should be ahead of all the guys who haven't won a title, and it isn't even due to title vs. no. I just think he's a better coach then all four. Boeheim has accomplished more than pretty much all 4 combined, and it isn't like Syracuse has been a slouch these past few years. It seems like the list is putting a ton of weight in last seasons results. Did people really forget that just two year Syracuse was in the final four?

Even among the coaches in the other list, I think you can make arguements about JB being a better coach than Self and Ollie. Self because Kansas seems to always underachieve with what they have, and Ollie because it remains to be seen wether or not this past year was the norm or an anomaly.

In a vacuum, 12th best seems like a fine number for Boeheim, until you look at some of the coaches ahead of him.

Eamonn Brennan basically apologized that JB was that high on the list and talked about after all these games people still haven't figured out the zone. I think his reliance on only zone is one of the reason he is ranked this low. JB and Cuse are the Rodney Dangerfields of college basketball.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't really care about someone's opinion. But if you're only going by team performance the last year or two, then say so and rank the coaches based upon how the team was ranked. But with the group that will be ahead of him, he's not 12th. Roy Williams isn't what he was ranked either. There has been plenty of other ranking articles and JB is usually in that 7-8 range. Where he belongs.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

I don't really care about someone's opinion. But if you're only going by team performance the last year or two, then say so and rank the coaches based upon how the team was ranked. But with the group that will be ahead of him, he's not 12th. Roy Williams isn't what he was ranked either. There has been plenty of other ranking articles and JB is usually in that 7-8 range. Where he belongs.

I mean he owns Roy Williams and I think Michigan's win in FF4 was Beilein first win ever over a JB team?

 

[HOFCeluck]

It's the end of June, but some people are in mid season form wrt their butthurtedness over perceived lack of respect in a ranking.


OMG WERE 12 INSTEAD OF 8...I hope Tyler Lydon doesn't decommit.

 

[JoeSU]

This is not a "ranking" - it is one sports writer's subjective opinion (Eamonn Brennan). I would care about this if it was based on a poll of the country's top sports writers or D-1 coaches - in which case it would objectively reflect the basketball world's view of JB. IMO this "ranking" is totally meaningless and folks shouldn't get all worked up about it any more than they would about the opinion of some random guy at a bar. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Jamesvillecuse]

butthurtedness? or this is a forum where people express their opinions and discuss SU related sports topics.

 

[SoBeCuse]

This is not a "ranking" - it is one sports writer's subjective opinion (Eamonn Brennan). I would care about this if it was based on a poll of the country's top sports writers or D-1 coaches - in which case it would objectively reflect the basketball world's view of JB. IMO this "ranking" is totally meaningless and folks shouldn't get all worked up about it any more than they would about the opinion of some random guy at a bar. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Well said.

 

[HOFCeluck]

This is not a "ranking" - it is one sports writer's subjective opinion (Eamonn Brennan). I would care about this if it was based on a poll of the country's top sports writers or D-1 coaches - in which case it would objectively reflect the basketball world's view of JB. IMO this "ranking" is totally meaningless and folks shouldn't get all worked up about it any more than they would about the opinion of some random guy at a bar. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where did you see that it's Eammon Brennans opinion?

ditor's note: During the next five weeks, we will reveal the top 50 coaches in college basketball as decided by our ESPN Forecast panel.

 

[HOFCeluck]

butthurtedness? or this is a forum where people express their opinions and discuss SU related sports topics.

It's an over the top reaction to something that doesn't really mean much.