C.J. Fair article from Baltimore Sun

[SUFan44]

I think that's accurate. I think he'll play starter minutes but won't be one of the first five on the floor this season.

I think Southerland starts at forward with Joseph.

NO way Southerland starts.

If Southerland and Mookie are in the game, it's either a really good thing for us or a really bad thing.

 

[bnoro]

NO way Southerland starts.

If Southerland and Mookie are in the game, it's either a really good thing for us or a really bad thing.

Don't use South and Mookie in the same sentence. James is an infinitely better player than Mook and will be getting back up minutes at the 4 this year most likely. James just needed to work on his rebounding/defensive rotation and if he did so, will be a heck of a player for us this year. He was close last year, I'm confident he will be a solid 7th man for us this year.

 

[billsin01]

NO way Southerland starts.

If Southerland and Mookie are in the game, it's either a really good thing for us or a really bad thing.

Not sure I understand all the anti-Southerland sentiment, especially from people who are pimping a kid in Xmas who hasn't played a minute and didn't look particularly good (at least in the times I've seen him).

Last season, in his first where he got any sort of legit run, Southerland shot 37% from three, showed a little toughness on the boards, blocked a few shots, picked up a few steals and turned it over 8 times TOTAL in 136 minutes. The kid's not a ready-made pro. He's not going to make us forget Melo, but people are really that convinced that he has no chance to help this team as a member of the regular rotation?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

NO way Southerland starts.

If Southerland and Mookie are in the game, it's either a really good thing for us or a really bad thing.

Don't use South and Mookie in the same sentence. James is an infinitely better player than Mook and will be getting back up minutes at the 4 this year most likely. James just needed to work on his rebounding/defensive rotation and if he did so, will be a heck of a player for us this year. He was close last year, I'm confident he will be a solid 7th man for us this year.

Southerland is going to get his run 44, make no mistake about it. He'll be a key guy this season. He's our tallest shooter. That can be useful, to say nothing of the length he brings to the defensive wing.

And I agree with bnoro - James and Mookie and their situation for playing time are not at all equivalent.

 

[SUFan44]

Not sure I understand all the anti-Southerland sentiment, especially from people who are pimping a kid in Xmas who hasn't played a minute and didn't look particularly good (at least in the times I've seen him).

Last season, in his first where he got any sort of legit run, Southerland shot 37% from three, showed a little toughness on the boards, blocked a few shots, picked up a few steals and turned it over 8 times TOTAL in 136 minutes. The kid's not a ready-made pro. He's not going to make us forget Melo, but people are really that convinced that he has no chance to help this team as a member of the regular rotation?

No anti-sentiment from me at all. I hope he has improved, I hope he gets better, I hope he is an effective piece to a national-championship winning team.

That being said, for anyone that watched one second of basketball that Syracuse played last year, one of Southerland's main issues was that he COULDN'T rebound. He doesn't have a knack for it, nor did it look like he was particularly interested in mixing it up down low most of the time.

If we didn't play a zone, that's fine. He can play the 3 and the 4 and 5 men could rebound, with the guards helping out. All he'd have to do is box out. But since we do play a zone, he needs to mix it up with guys that are 6'9" 250. CJ does have a knack, does have a willingness to rebound and also has a much more fluid game than James does.

Between Joseph, Christmas, Fair and Southerland, there is going to be an odd-man out in the forward rotation. We all know JB will not go deeper than 8.5 (I expect Scoop, Triche, Waiters, MCW, Melo, and Baye to be locks for the rotation). Even if he goes 9, I have a tough time seeing Southerland in there, especially if Triche/Fair/Joseph can stretch the D consistently due to improved outside shooting.

Fair and Joseph offer so much more than Southerland in every other aspect of the game outside of perimeter shooting that it doesn't make sense for him to see many minutes over Fair or Joseph. X factor is Christmas. If he can't play or isn't ready (which could very well be the case), then you will probably see much more of James. But I'm not sold on him playing any more than 10-15 minutes a game. With Christmas being so highly touted, JB is going to give him every chance to get there -- likely at the expense of Southerland, IMO.

 

[SmilinBob]

JB's a heck of a coach but he's starting to sound like Sparky Anderson with his praise of late. I like Fair but he has to get a mid range jumper to move up a level.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

But I'm not sold on him playing any more than 10-15 minutes a game.

I can envision Southerland starting and playing about 15 minutes a game.

 

[HoustonCuse]

CJ is my favorite player, really looking forward to seeing him progress in his career at SU.

 

[SUFan44]

I can envision Southerland starting and playing about 15 minutes a game.

Then he's not going to be a key guy this season. If he starts I would be SHOCKED.

15 minutes is a high threshold with me regarding the amount of minutes he sees.

 

[billsin01]

That being said, for anyone that watched one second of basketball that Syracuse played last year, one of Southerland's main issues was that he COULDN'T rebound. He doesn't have a knack for it, nor did it look like he was particularly interested in mixing it up down low most of the time.

If we didn't play a zone, that's fine. He can play the 3 and the 4 and 5 men could rebound, with the guards helping out. All he'd have to do is box out. But since we do play a zone, he needs to mix it up with guys that are 6'9" 250. CJ does have a knack, does have a willingness to rebound and also has a much more fluid game than James does.

Between Joseph, Christmas, Fair and Southerland, there is going to be an odd-man out in the forward rotation. We all know JB will not go deeper than 8.5 (I expect Scoop, Triche, Waiters, MCW, Melo, and Baye to be locks for the rotation). Even if he goes 9, I have a tough time seeing Southerland in there, especially if Triche/Fair/Joseph can stretch the D consistently due to improved outside shooting.

Fair and Joseph offer so much more than Southerland in every other aspect of the game outside of perimeter shooting that it doesn't make sense for him to see many minutes over Fair or Joseph. X factor is Christmas. If he can't play or isn't ready (which could very well be the case), then you will probably see much more of James. But I'm not sold on him playing any more than 10-15 minutes a game. With Christmas being so highly touted, JB is going to give him every chance to get there -- likely at the expense of Southerland, IMO.

Wait, I feel like the rest of your post vs. the highlighted portions are two separate points. I'm not sure anyone would predict Southerland will be on the floor for 30 or even 20-25 mins a game at this point. So you list 40 things he's completely incapable of doing, then say you're not sold on him playing more than 10-15 mins a game? 10-15 a game would make him that 8th or 9th guy and that's a part of the rotation.

As for the odd man out situation -- why are you so convinced it exists between KJ/CJ/Xmas/Southerland but not between Triche/Waiters/Jardine/MCW? It's especially odd since, of the eight players listed there, Southerland is by far the best shooter.

Listen, I have no idea what the season holds for Southerland. I just think writing him off (less than 10-15 mins) seems premature. I'm not saying he's going to be a tough rebounder, but that as a first-time player he seemed to show an ability to perform fairly well in the front court. With that in mind, and taking into account how dangerous Waiters, KJ and CJ could be with room to operate in the middle, I could see where there's some opportunity to go with a front line of South, KJ and CJ.

Who knows? All I can say for sure I've seen nothing of Melo, Xmas or MCW yet to convince me that Southerland is headed for a long season filled mostly with pine.

 

[SUFan44]

I don't think I ever said anywhere that Southerland "is incapable of doing" anything. I simply listed the things that he is deficient at, and that are keeping him from seeing extensive minutes on a consistent basis.

Wasn't there a huge debate on whether Melo was a part of the rotation last year after starting and playing about 10-15 minutes a game? Also, 20 minutes a game in non-conference games averaged with a few DNP's and a few 5-8 minutes spurts during BE play is around 10-15 minutes per game. Not saying that's his likely playing-time arc, but it is a distinct possibility.

I am not writing him off. I said at the start that I hope he has improved, and I hope that he's an effective player on the team. I just have a lot of reservations about putting him ahead of 9 or even 10 players right now.

The reason I don't list Southerland in that group is because Triche, Waiters and Scoop all played last year, and in the history of our program, how many McD A-A's have we recruited that have sat the bench? I'm pretty sure Michael-Carter Williams (and Rakeem Christmas, for that matter) is going to see his fair share of action and be given every opportunity to succeed.

Nothing against James at all -- I really do hope he has a role with this team, and that he has improved drastically. But at this point in time, without having seen anyone play pickup games or seen how anyone on the team has improved, I wouldn't put a whole lot of money on him having a major role on the team this season.

 

[billsin01]

The reason I don't list Southerland in that group is because Triche, Waiters and Scoop all played last year, and in the history of our program, how many McD A-A's have we recruited that have sat the bench? I'm pretty sure Michael-Carter Williams (and Rakeem Christmas, for that matter) is going to see his fair share of action and be given every opportunity to succeed.

Nothing against James at all -- I really do hope he has a role with this team, and that he has improved drastically. But at this point in time, without having seen anyone play pickup games or seen how anyone on the team has improved, I wouldn't put a whole lot of money on him having a major role on the team this season.

I guess we just see this a bit differently. I see Southerland as a guy with a really unique skill set (shooting, length, athleticism) that could (emphasize could) earn him 10-15 mpg in conference play. I got the impression from your posts and some others that you were basically putting him in the same camp as Jones (who is a good kid, I'm sure, but is not going to play meaningful minutes) and I just don't see that at all.

As far as McD's, I agree with your assertion that they generally play. But I would also contend that they have generally come into situations where there have been plenty of minutes available. I don't necessarily see that this year. If Melo and Baye have improved, I honestly think a huge number of front court minutes are going to be gobbled up by those two and KJ/CJ. If Waiters' head in on straight, I think a huge majority of backcourt minutes will be his, Jardine's and Triche's. I just think MCW and Xmas -- both of whom I am high on -- have really steep hills to climb with regard to walking into 25 minutes of PT as true frosh.

 

[bnoro]

The reason I don't list Southerland in that group is because Triche, Waiters and Scoop all played last year, and in the history of our program, how many McD A-A's have we recruited that have sat the bench? I'm pretty sure Michael-Carter Williams (and Rakeem Christmas, for that matter) is going to see his fair share of action and be given every opportunity to succeed.

You listed all guards. That will not impact the forward rotation at all.

Forwards: Kris Joseph, James Southerland, CJ Fair, Rakeem Christmas, Mookie Jones (Listed as a on Suathletics)
Centers: Baye Moussa Keita, Fab Melo

Kris will probably play 35 minutes a game at the 3.
CJ probably plays 25 at the 4, 5 at the 3 when Kris is out of the game.
Southerland takes the other 15 most likely.
Rak will get probably 5 mins here and there non-conference. His offensive skills are not even close to South's. Defensively, I'd give an edge to South because he's played in college, but they are similar.

 

[SUFan44]

You listed all guards. That will not impact the forward rotation at all.

Forwards: Kris Joseph, James Southerland, CJ Fair, Rakeem Christmas, Mookie Jones (Listed as a on Suathletics)
Centers: Baye Moussa Keita, Fab Melo

Kris will probably play 35 minutes a game at the 3.
CJ probably plays 25 at the 4, 5 at the 3 when Kris is out of the game.
Southerland takes the other 15 most likely.
Rak will get probably 5 mins here and there non-conference. His offensive skills are not even close to South's. Defensively, I'd give an edge to South because he's played in college, but they are similar.

"As for the odd man out situation -- why are you so convinced it exists between KJ/CJ/Xmas/Southerland but not between Triche/Waiters/Jardine/MCW? It's especially odd since, of the eight players listed there, Southerland is by far the best shooter."

This is what I was replying to. Thanks for clarifying that Southerland is in the group. Wasn't sure.

As for your breakdown, CJ will see more than 25 minutes a game. More like 30. And Rakeem will see more than 5 minutes a game. McDonald's AA's don't sit historically, and Boeheim will give him every opportunity in the early season.

 

[orangefan13]

If a player is a legit 6th man JB will play them I think. Even if its 15 minutes one game sit three then 15 minutes the next like Southerland last year. We saw a new side from JB last year.

Whether or not the Small lineup can bring good offense will be a big factor for us this year. As will MCW being able to give us 5-10 from point guard. His 4 inches on Scoop will show.

 

[realorange]

If a player is a legit 6th man JB will play them I think. Even if its 15 minutes one game sit three then 15 minutes the next like Southerland last year. We saw a new side from JB last year.

Whether or not the Small lineup can bring good offense will be a big factor for us this year. As will MCW being able to give us 5-10 from point guard. His 4 inches on Scoop will show.

Plus his ability to distribute and get to the rack.

 

[bevosu]

From what I've seen from Southerland so far in his Syracuse basketball career I think he'll get some minutes because it's his third year and JB usually gives some minutes to upperclassmen who have been part of his 9 man rotation . Outside of that he'll have to play a lot better than he has up until now, and show more consistency, or he'll be sitting a lot more than playing.

I just haven't seen what some claim to see in Southerland's game...so far. Granted he has potential.