Cal in Trouble Over Facilities Debt | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Cal in Trouble Over Facilities Debt

On sale right now for $75 online via the SU Bookstore:

H12047-t.jpg


CJ Fair won't see a dime from that.

$75.

Tons of aspiring proffessionals take unpaid internships all while racking up tuition, room, and food bills that athletes won't have.
 
Tons of aspiring proffessionals take unpaid internships all while racking up tuition, room, and food bills that athletes won't have.

How much money do those interns generate for their company?

As much as the guy who gets a team to a Final Four?

Are you suggesting that playing college ball is equivalent to an "internship"? I thought student-athletes were in school for the education?
 
I thought student-athletes were in school for the education?
Isn't that an argument against paying them for their jersey sales?

And just curious, do you want Fair to make as much as Baye -- or should bigger sellers make bigger earners? I'd fear that would cause dissension in the ranks -- and I wouldn't want that to factor into a player's mind when he's deciding whether to shoot or pass. And would you want the NCAA to regulate it -- or can Kentucky start selling jerseys for $2,000, while Seton Hall sells for $75? As this 2010 Rovell article points out -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/39099125 -- a player's cut wouldn't be that great at $60 a pop.
 
How much money do those interns generate for their company?

As much as the guy who gets a team to a Final Four?

Are you suggesting that playing college ball is equivalent to an "internship"? I thought student-athletes were in school for the education?

They are getting an education. It's hard to quantify how much money one generates for their company but I would imagine interns at law firms and investment firms could potentially generate as much if not more. Also, how could you differentiate between which team members generated how much money of said teams total take?
 
They are getting an education. It's hard to quantify how much money one generates for their company but I would imagine interns at law firms and investment firms could potentially generate as much if not more. Also, how could you differentiate between which team members generated how much money of said teams total take?


First and foremost, this is all spit-balling off the top of my head so this all holds no water. Just where I'm sitting with and where I see things. (I'm not singling you out either ImperialO)

If CJ Fair is wearing number 5 for his 4 years in the university and the university sells, for example, 5,000 #5 jersey (home & away). Maybe he should be able to make a certain percentage of each of those jersey sales (albeit a low percentage). Now you could say past players have worn that number so you could then say, well, we will allocate half of the sales as a result of you wearing that jersey, not someone previously (and 50% is probably fairly low on that). So CJ would make a set percentage, say 5% for starters, of the 2,500 jerseys that he would be held responsible for in terms of what was agreed upon (the 50%). The jerseys are $75 so he would only be making $3.75 for each jersey sold, so multiply that by 2,500 and that is $9,375 before taxes. That's a lot of money for a college student and that's with me only allocating 5% of 50% of the strictly jersey sales and it only being 5,000 jerseys over a 4 year span.

Now, the problem with this is it would entice high school athletes to go toward schools with the larger fan bases to receive more money or the schools that have been selling the most jerseys or other memorabilia at a higher rate than those other schools. A lot of athletes choose schools with larger fan bases over smaller anyways. But a lot of those huge schools. with massive amounts of alumni who support the programs through thick and thin, already have donors willing to set the kids up with summer jobs to make bank or just pay them under the table. It's quite the conundrum.

I'm not saying that this is how it should be done, because I'd be so pumped to even get a full-ride. But, I'm also not making the university millions of dollars and essentially having my bio's sold to EA and not seeing a nickel of that. That would really frustrate me. I also have always had aspirations of pursuing a higher education, in college, but not every person/athlete wants that. I understand the whole free tuition and room & board thing but in comparison to how much revenue the athletic department and university is generating off of the players, I can really empathize with them wanting to be reimbursed for their efforts outside of the free education (which a lot of these high end players don't even really want anymore, there is just so few other options out there). They are forced to go to a place to work for what is basically a business, and not see the fruits of their labor. A minor league or semi-professional/developmental league really should be set up. But, the schools and NCAA don't want to change it because they are wiping their asses with money from it. The NCAA make an absurd amount of cash just from the NCAA basketball tournament alone.

I see both sides of the argument and I am happy I'll never be a judge who must rule on these lawsuits. I love college athletics the way they are today, but I know a few athletes and ex-athletes on the college level who aren't too happy about it and I can empathize with them too.
 
On sale right now for $75 online via the SU Bookstore:

H12047-t.jpg


CJ Fair won't see a dime from that.

$75.


Yeah, I can see a good argument on the players' side of things but I would think legally it could be a bit tougher since there are no names. Am I crazy to think the universities would argue that they are merely selling the jerseys their basketball players wear and not official "CJ Fair jerseys"? Now we all know practically what's really going on, but I'd think legally it would be tough to know if you were selling jim brown's 44 or ernie davis' 44.
 
Yeah, I can see a good argument on the players' side of things but I would think legally it could be a bit tougher since there are no names. Am I crazy to think the universities would argue that they are merely selling the jerseys their basketball players wear and not official "CJ Fair jerseys"? Now we all know practically what's really going on, but I'd think legally it would be tough to know if you were selling jim brown's 44 or ernie davis' 44.

Of course that's what schools would argue, in fact they're doing it right now. It is, of course, a load of horse-hooey.

I really didn't intend for this discussion to turn into another tired debate on "paying" players though. People seem to be entrenched in their positions there, and for some reason it seems to be very personal ("I had TONS of debt, screw those guys they get a free education!!!), so I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

Rather, I was just trying to point out, yet again, the utter lunacy, hypocrisy, and obnoxiousness of this facilities arms race. It's obscene, there is no better adjective to use.
 
First and foremost, this is all spit-balling off the top of my head so this all holds no water. Just where I'm sitting with and where I see things. (I'm not singling you out either ImperialO)

If CJ Fair is wearing number 5 for his 4 years in the university and the university sells, for example, 5,000 #5 jersey (home & away). Maybe he should be able to make a certain percentage of each of those jersey sales (albeit a low percentage). Now you could say past players have worn that number so you could then say, well, we will allocate half of the sales as a result of you wearing that jersey, not someone previously (and 50% is probably fairly low on that). So CJ would make a set percentage, say 5% for starters, of the 2,500 jerseys that he would be held responsible for in terms of what was agreed upon (the 50%). The jerseys are $75 so he would only be making $3.75 for each jersey sold, so multiply that by 2,500 and that is $9,375 before taxes. That's a lot of money for a college student and that's with me only allocating 5% of 50% of the strictly jersey sales and it only being 5,000 jerseys over a 4 year span.

Now, the problem with this is it would entice high school athletes to go toward schools with the larger fan bases to receive more money or the schools that have been selling the most jerseys or other memorabilia at a higher rate than those other schools. A lot of athletes choose schools with larger fan bases over smaller anyways. But a lot of those huge schools. with massive amounts of alumni who support the programs through thick and thin, already have donors willing to set the kids up with summer jobs to make bank or just pay them under the table. It's quite the conundrum.

I'm not saying that this is how it should be done, because I'd be so pumped to even get a full-ride. But, I'm also not making the university millions of dollars and essentially having my bio's sold to EA and not seeing a nickel of that. That would really frustrate me. I also have always had aspirations of pursuing a higher education, in college, but not every person/athlete wants that. I understand the whole free tuition and room & board thing but in comparison to how much revenue the athletic department and university is generating off of the players, I can really empathize with them wanting to be reimbursed for their efforts outside of the free education (which a lot of these high end players don't even really want anymore, there is just so few other options out there). They are forced to go to a place to work for what is basically a business, and not see the fruits of their labor. A minor league or semi-professional/developmental league really should be set up. But, the schools and NCAA don't want to change it because they are wiping their asses with money from it. The NCAA make an absurd amount of cash just from the NCAA basketball tournament alone.

I see both sides of the argument and I am happy I'll never be a judge who must rule on these lawsuits. I love college athletics the way they are today, but I know a few athletes and ex-athletes on the college level who aren't too happy about it and I can empathize with them too.

I can see both sides of the arguement as well. Really just depends if you're comparing student athletes vs regular students or student athletes vs pro athletes as to which stance you take.

What's to keep SU fans from saving their $75 instead of buying the jersey and mailing it to CJ Fair the day after he graduates? Or potentially the $3.75 in royalties as you pointed out? If he's not cashing NBA checks I'm sure he could leverage his degree and star status into a job making 10k+ per year more then he otherwise would. Kind of like residuals bands make long after they sell an album.
 
Of course that's what schools would argue, in fact they're doing it right now. It is, of course, a load of horse-hooey.

I really didn't intend for this discussion to turn into another tired debate on "paying" players though. People seem to be entrenched in their positions there, and for some reason it seems to be very personal ("I had TONS of debt, screw those guys they get a free education!!!), so I'm not trying to change anyone's mind.

Rather, I was just trying to point out, yet again, the utter lunacy, hypocrisy, and obnoxiousness of this facilities arms race. It's obscene, there is no better adjective to use.


Yeah, we definitely sidetracked this thread. Just as a final note, however: I have zero ill will towards players and athletes getting certain advantages. I'm all for getting rid of admission standards in any way, shape or form. I'm honestly fine with it. I just don't really understand the logic in arbitrarily handing them money. If anything, carve out time for them to have a job, even if it means less practicing and lifting, etc. In fact, I'd argue that schools should be encouraging not only internships but semesters abroad, etc. Honestly, I'm cool with this stuff, but I just struggle to see how these athletes are in a disadvantaged position in any way, shape or form.

Edit: And I also couldn't agree more on the wild athletics spending. It's mind-blowingly wasteful.
 
On sale right now for $75 online via the SU Bookstore:

H12047-t.jpg


CJ Fair won't see a dime from that.

$75.
He won't in his pocket, but the facilities he benefits from are partially payed for by revenues from it.
 
The whole reason athletes can't benefit from any of this revenue is because of people in the past cheating to get an upper hand in recruiting. Do we want athletes to earn money from jersey sales? Before you answer, look at which schools sell the most jerseys because that is where all of the best recruits will go.

All of the restrictions on all things recruiting and allowed benefits that are in the biblically thick NCAA rule book stem from the NCAA trying to close loopholes that at one time or another were exploited by a coach to gain an advantage. If a kid can't have a summer job it's because some car dealer "employed" an athlete that never had to show up to work. If a kid isn't allowed to get royalties, it's because some booster would go out and buy 2000 jerseys so that a kid could get a payday. Once word gets out that Alabama or Ohio State does that better than anyone else, the playing field slants even more in their favor. Coaches, boosters, and athletes have no one to blame but the ones that came before them.

As it is kids get free food, clothes, and an education. They also get tutoring services and facilities that are above and beyond the non-athlete population. How much should these kids get before we say it's enough?
 
The whole reason athletes can't benefit from any of this revenue is because of people in the past cheating to get an upper hand in recruiting. Do we want athletes to earn money from jersey sales? Before you answer, look at which schools sell the most jerseys because that is where all of the best recruits will go.

All of the restrictions on all things recruiting and allowed benefits that are in the biblically thick NCAA rule book stem from the NCAA trying to close loopholes that at one time or another were exploited by a coach to gain an advantage. If a kid can't have a summer job it's because some car dealer "employed" an athlete that never had to show up to work. If a kid isn't allowed to get royalties, it's because some booster would go out and buy 2000 jerseys so that a kid could get a payday. Once word gets out that Alabama or Ohio State does that better than anyone else, the playing field slants even more in their favor. Coaches, boosters, and athletes have no one to blame but the ones that came before them.

As it is kids get free food, clothes, and an education. They also get tutoring services and facilities that are above and beyond the non-athlete population. How much should these kids get before we say it's enough?

Give them the cost of their food, clothes, and education and then tell them to go find it themselves and pay their own tuition if they want to attend class. There's your payment, enjoy.
 
Give them the cost of their food, clothes, and education and then tell them to go find it themselves and pay their own tuition if they want to attend class. There's your payment, enjoy.
I have thought about that, and it would have the interesting effect of making private schools much more desirable.
 
No pay for play your education is your payment and if you don't like it don't go to school and get a job caveat I am the dad of a daughter of a non-scholarship (athletic scholarship that is) who is already sad that she only has three years left in her career but her hard work in bio-chem/pre-med (Deans list) is the most important thing. My 2 cents and that is all it is worth
 
Forget about that. If this kind of irresponsible spending on athletic facilities keeps up, these schools will upgrade themselves out of existence. Even years and years of P12 network money won't balance their books with millions in maintenance costs and debt servicing annually. And, of course, 10 years from now, they'll have to do another round of multi-million dollar upgrades to keep up with the competition. The UC system is itself in serious trouble already so no bailout there. Pretty soon, Berkeley tuition will be as much Stanford's. But who's going to pay 45K a year to have a grad student teach most of your kid's classes?

You see these kinds of stories and the only conclusion to draw is that big time college sports is ruining higher ed in this country. I say blow it up and start over. And let's string up Delany just for kicks.
booze Allen just took notice of your post...some young snot nosed kid who use to wash jock straps for cal is calling them as we speak
 

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