can we put an APB out for our fast-break?

[IthacaMatt]

In all my 20 something years of watching Syracuse hoops I can't remember a squad this feeble getting out and running. Even on opportunities where we had 2 on 1s we managed to mess them up.

For as good as Ennis is doing everything else, his lack of elite athleticism really comes through on fast-break situations and it doesn't help that Cooney isn't an elite athlete either.

This season is going to come down to how well we execute in the half court sets so we can avoid scoring droughts.

I think that Ennis is playing too conservatively mentally, rather than the idea that he couldn't run the break because physically he's not that great an athlete. Yes, athleticism helps you do more things in the open court, but Billy Edelin and Z Sims, neither a speedster, could run a really good fast break.

The question is speed of thought - how quickly you make decisions and advance the ball. You don't have to be the fastest guy from point A to point Z because passing the ball is much faster than dribbling the ball.

A big part of the reason that Ennis has made such a great transition to college ball is that Boeheim is coaching him to minimize mistakes. JB figures we have enough scorers around Ennis that he wanted to have him concentrate first on ball security, good decisions and getting people open shots.

To minimize mistakes, we have taken the foot off the gas on the fast break. We have also done that because our guards are not as big as last year, and they have been helping us on defense and not leaking out to start the break.

The more you run, the more you turn it over, in hopes of making the "great" pass for the breakaway dunk. When we were running the most, we could turn it over 15-20 times and still win. But basketball has been changing. It's a more defensive game overall. You may get 90 points against a team you outclass physically, but it's much harder to do that in big games where teams are more evenly matched.

Winning games at the highest level has become about minimizing mistakes and maximizing possessions, kind of like football. The reason we are number 2 in the country right now, despite not playing the greatest defense, is that are are rebounding fairly well (haven't been pounded by 15-20 rebounds by physical opponents like we used to), and we are just not turning the ball over - other than CJ, that is. Ennis will unwrap the offense and eventually the fast break will come. This team will continue to get better as they encourage Ennis to do more and more, and the coaches can do that because Ennis continues to handle all that they have asked him to do so far.

 

[IthacaMatt]

since when? 1 of our staples for years was scoring in transition.

If he doesnt value the break as much as he used to... that literally started this year. And came out of left field.

No, we didn't run nearly as much against the better teams last year. Our scoring was way down once we got into Big East play. That wasn't just thuggery. We pulled back on the reins a bit. We ran more a few years ago than we have the last couple seasons.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Noted Tuttle, just speaking about yesterday in regards to turnovers.. Our rebounding stinks tho, and has for a while. And I agree, our guards don't leak out as much as in the past and I think that started last year.

We rebounded even with Indiana, who was the best rebounding team in the country at the time. We rebounded even with Baylor, another big physical team. We just rebounded even with St. John's, another athletic, physical team. We failed to pad our stats at the beginning of the season against the lesser teams with smaller front lines, but we often have trouble with "little big men" scooting around our centers in early season games.

Last year, I believe we finished around 20-30th in the NCAA in rebounding. That's out of 365 teams. That is like the top 8% in the country. That's very good. Historically, we have been doing very well these past few years (Fab Melo's team was probably the worst of the last four or five years, although they were great at protecting the rim - the Arinze and Rick Jackson senior year teams were also pretty good rebounding teams.)

 

[CaptainJ]

Yesterday I had the classic song "The Gambler" in my head. Even if we don't need to be a "fast break team" like in fabled past, we don't benefit when we leave fast break points on the floor that were there for the taking statistically. Like in the song, it's about recognition and balance(among other things), and Tyler(or anyone) can raise their value in any situation when they get good at it, when it comes from a level that isn't necessarily conscious any longer.

Like others said before there are a lot more factors than just Tyler that go into relatively dismal fast break production, but there are also times when Tyler seems too gun-shy even though the odds are in his/the team's favor. He's young though, and sticking with country-crossover(not the Hardaway variety), I think a good number of us want to say, "I Hope You Dance". The kid has talent, and will eventually recognize that often "Pain Lies On The Riverside".

Useful advice in this song for anyone(including Tyler), especially if the irony hits you:

 

[SmilinBob]

Deflections and steals lead to fastbreaks and that is something they haven't done as well as in the past. Yes, they have had their steals but then the quickness to get out isn't there like in the past. Also, sometimes I wonder if it's part not to get into a running game because of the lack of depth at point guard. As long as this team rebounds better defensively and can operate efficiently in the half court I'm fine with it. Ennis is one of the better half court point guards we've ever had.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I really can't argue with your first pt other than agreeing w you, relatively speaking yes we were a much better transition team in late eighties than we are now, which was part of my original pt

As for your second pt, I again agree w you but don't great or "incredible" running teams impose their will on others instead of vice versa? Also if you say eighties don't count because of talent issues how do you explain the differences in our scoring ability from 2003 and 2012 (with the 2003 team averaging way more pts per game) despite the 2012 team having a better win percentage and the 2012 team having more guys who would be drafted by nba (so it's no longer a talent issue like you claim for 89 team). To me it's simply because the 2012 team relied on defense a heck of lot more than "incredible" offense to achieve its impressive record.

As far as your third pt, it seems like you are saying going primarily zone hurt our ability to get out in transition due in part to rebounding issues. I agree, and that is part if my pt, over time JB is more focused on defense (zone) than he is on transition or playing the game at a faster pace. So I agree w you. And his results have been very good lately so I really can't be critical of JB...

I think the big thing is that (a) our zone slows games down, creating fewer possessions, and (b) the game has changed, so you can't necessarily impose your pace on the elite teams. It's like in baseball, where your hitting over the regular season does not compare to the playoffs, where you don't face anybody's 4th and 5th best starters - it's always the other team's aces that you are going against, and scoring is more at a premium.

I also think Boeheim has changed a bit these past 5 years or so, and is focusing more on not permitting as many offensive rebounds as the zone has historically done. Wing players don't leak out (like Terrance Roberts or even Wes Johnson used to) as often. Nowadays, the only guys who may take off are the guards, and with Ennis, he always comes back for the ball. So today our fast break is limited to steals up top and the occasional blocked shot. We don't run as often, but part of that is the changes in the nature of the game, and the other part is Boeheim adjusting his zone over time, so it doesn't turn into a sieve defensively, like we used to see happen so many times in the past. Seriously, when was the last time some team truly pounded us on the boards, with a plus 15 or a plus 20 rebounding advantage? You used to see that happen 5 times a year or so, even within the last decade. But not so much these past few years.

Defense wins games. Yes, you have to make shots, but last year taught the coach a lesson - you can have almost zero offensive production from a couple players on the floor, but if you play lights out defense, you can still win almost every game.

 

[Jack Hall]

I think the big thing is that (a) our zone slows games down, creating fewer possessions, and (b) the game has changed, so you can't necessarily impose your pace on the elite teams. It's like in baseball, where your hitting over the regular season does not compare to the playoffs, where you don't face anybody's 4th and 5th best starters - it's always the other team's aces that you are going against, and scoring is more at a premium.

I also think Boeheim has changed a bit these past 5 years or so, and is focusing more on not permitting as many offensive rebounds as the zone has historically done. Wing players don't leak out (like Terrance Roberts or even Wes Johnson used to) as often. Nowadays, the only guys who may take off are the guards, and with Ennis, he always comes back for the ball. So today our fast break is limited to steals up top and the occasional blocked shot. We don't run as often, but part of that is the changes in the nature of the game, and the other part is Boeheim adjusting his zone over time, so it doesn't turn into a sieve defensively, like we used to see happen so many times in the past. Seriously, when was the last time some team truly pounded us on the boards, with a plus 15 or a plus 20 rebounding advantage? You used to see that happen 5 times a year or so, even within the last decade. But not so much these past few years.

Defense wins games. Yes, you have to make shots, but last year taught the coach a lesson - you can have almost zero offensive production from a couple players on the floor, but if you play lights out defense, you can still win almost every game.

Outstanding post IMO. I think you see more or less what I see, and that is over the decades JB has become less dependent/focused on a running game and more focused on defense and valuing possessions (aka avoiding silly turnovers). And yes when you become more focused on those second two things, your transition game will suffer some. It's unavoidable IMO. But in terms of valuing possessions and avoiding silly turnovers, imo JB could have possibly found a better freshman pg than a Ennis. As impressive as that Harrison pg is, I will take Ennis every day of the week over him for our program. I will also throw out there that as great as MCW was last season, JB right now trusts Tyler more offensively. Not saying Tyler is more talented, just JB trusts him more in his offensive system (altho defense is a whole different story). go Cuse!

 

[Jack Hall]

Outstanding post IMO. I think you see more or less what I see, and that is over the decades JB has become less dependent/focused on a running game and more focused on defense and valuing possessions (aka avoiding silly turnovers). And yes when you become more focused on those second two things, your transition game will suffer some. It's unavoidable IMO. But in terms of valuing possessions and avoiding silly turnovers, imo JB could have possibly found a better freshman pg than a Ennis. As impressive as that Harrison pg is, I will take Ennis every day of the week over him for our program. I will also throw out there that as great as MCW was last season, JB right now trusts Tyler more offensively. Not saying Tyler is more talented, just JB trusts him more in his offensive system (altho defense is a whole different story). go Cuse!

Could NOT have possibly found...

 

[Jack Hall]

I think the big thing is that (a) our zone slows games down, creating fewer possessions, and (b) the game has changed, so you can't necessarily impose your pace on the elite teams. It's like in baseball, where your hitting over the regular season does not compare to the playoffs, where you don't face anybody's 4th and 5th best starters - it's always the other team's aces that you are going against, and scoring is more at a premium.

I also think Boeheim has changed a bit these past 5 years or so, and is focusing more on not permitting as many offensive rebounds as the zone has historically done. Wing players don't leak out (like Terrance Roberts or even Wes Johnson used to) as often. Nowadays, the only guys who may take off are the guards, and with Ennis, he always comes back for the ball. So today our fast break is limited to steals up top and the occasional blocked shot. We don't run as often, but part of that is the changes in the nature of the game, and the other part is Boeheim adjusting his zone over time, so it doesn't turn into a sieve defensively, like we used to see happen so many times in the past. Seriously, when was the last time some team truly pounded us on the boards, with a plus 15 or a plus 20 rebounding advantage? You used to see that happen 5 times a year or so, even within the last decade. But not so much these past few years.

Defense wins games. Yes, you have to make shots, but last year taught the coach a lesson - you can have almost zero offensive production from a couple players on the floor, but if you play lights out defense, you can still win almost every game.

And key word is "almost" every single game. IMO for us to beat the likes of michigan and ul from last yr we will have to avoid having almost zero offensive production from a couple players...

 

[Jack Hall]

I think the big thing is that (a) our zone slows games down, creating fewer possessions, and (b) the game has changed, so you can't necessarily impose your pace on the elite teams. It's like in baseball, where your hitting over the regular season does not compare to the playoffs, where you don't face anybody's 4th and 5th best starters - it's always the other team's aces that you are going against, and scoring is more at a premium.

I also think Boeheim has changed a bit these past 5 years or so, and is focusing more on not permitting as many offensive rebounds as the zone has historically done. Wing players don't leak out (like Terrance Roberts or even Wes Johnson used to) as often. Nowadays, the only guys who may take off are the guards, and with Ennis, he always comes back for the ball. So today our fast break is limited to steals up top and the occasional blocked shot. We don't run as often, but part of that is the changes in the nature of the game, and the other part is Boeheim adjusting his zone over time, so it doesn't turn into a sieve defensively, like we used to see happen so many times in the past. Seriously, when was the last time some team truly pounded us on the boards, with a plus 15 or a plus 20 rebounding advantage? You used to see that happen 5 times a year or so, even within the last decade. But not so much these past few years.

Defense wins games. Yes, you have to make shots, but last year taught the coach a lesson - you can have almost zero offensive production from a couple players on the floor, but if you play lights out defense, you can still win almost every game.

I really hope JB gets an even better shot at a National Championship in the next few seasons. go Orange!