Carey needs to start

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Townie72

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I can’t even fathom a Syracuse team coached by anyone other than Boeheim.

Hopkins is the only one I can kinda fathom. Because he was #2 for 15 years and coached 9 games.

A complete regime change? Gonna be a tough day.
You’ll not convince the crowd on here that sees no problem with making the transition or re-make of the program. In fact, a lot of them are anticipating an upgrade because Boeheim’s inadequacies are holding the program back.

Bizarre.
 
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One of the other curious things about this for me is that I could envision a scenario where Jalen just eviscerates Frank in practice every day. The lights are off, less pressure, and Frank is just doing his hand the ball to Tyus routine, and playing in slo-mo, and JC is running circles around him at times.

Which may be the first time where I've thought that, while also still feeling like you can't really play him.

As I said in the other Jalen thread, I do NOT envy JB on this one with this rotation of guards we have and how to best distribute the minutes. :(
Seems pretty easy for JB to me. I think the rotation of guards is pretty straight forward. Frank and TB start. Buddy is the third guard with PT dependent on game flow, fouls, and Frank's play. JB tries to get his fourth guard (JC) a couple of minutes in the first half and with big leads.

Even in your fanciful hypothetical scenario you're not envisioning JC playing better than Battle are you? Because Battle is the backup point guard now.

And really, to me, the best lineup is starting to look like when SU can play the hot Buddy/Battle combo at guards. But you don't bench the senior FH. And that allows for nice long term progression of starting Buddy at the 2 next year. And if the NBA says TB needs more ball handling skills you tell TB the starting pg spot is his if he wants it. JC would then be penciled in to move up to third guard duties.
 

Ghost

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Seems pretty easy for JB to me. I think the rotation of guards is pretty straight forward. Frank and TB start. Buddy is the third guard with PT dependent on game flow, fouls, and Frank's play. JB tries to get his fourth guard (JC) a couple of minutes in the first half and with big leads.

Even in your fanciful hypothetical scenario you're not envisioning JC playing better than Battle are you? Because Battle is the backup point guard now.

And really, to me, the best lineup is starting to look like when SU can play the hot Buddy/Battle combo at guards. But you don't bench the senior FH. And that allows for nice long term progression of starting Buddy at the 2 next year. And if the NBA says TB needs more ball handling skills you tell TB the starting pg spot is his if he wants it. JC would then be penciled in to move up to third guard duties.
No, I just think it's probably the most difficult rotation JB has had to sort of piece together.

Battle is Battle.
Buddy was awful throughout much of the season shooting...but with the PT turned into a HUGE player for us with his shooting.
Frank needs PT to get healthy, back into game shape, etc...but has been garbage quite a bit of the season. We can pretend he hasn't because he "starts" I guess though.
JC needs PT to get better, but the upside is likely below where JB envisioned Frank being if he could get it together.

Meanwhile, I imagine while Buddy is shooting 0 for his last 50 threes in games, he's likely lighting it up in practice...so JB keeps getting him run. We can ignore how awful he was early with shooting...but it happened. On the other hand, I wouldn't be shocked if JC was capable of devouring this slowed down version of Frank. That's my only unknown.

It just feels like the deck is stacked against JB regarding rolling the dice on anyone outside of Battle. Thankfully, Buddy got hot, and that's really helped the offense tremendously. Nevertheless, the "hot" combo is always going to be the best...that's not rocket science. GMac to JB: "The best lineup is the hot one!! Let's roll with that! LGO." You're still stuck with a guard in your combo that JB wouldn't even put in the game against Va. Tech because they played too much pressure D.

I think it's a fairly tough group to manage with all the intricacies involved...
 

bpo57

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boeheim made the tradition at syracuse. sure there wasnt zero tradition but on a scale of 1-100 we were like a 20-25. and now we are a 98.
Like I said, it wasn't 0.

A Final Four appearance was a big deal. Helped put us more on the map and I'm sure made JB's recruiting efforts a bit easier when he first got started.
 

Sherman20

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Well, the offense Ennis led was awful. Would you agree? His team flamed out. While the offense wasn’t great last year, it was better I believe. And Frank’s team made a decent run to the sweet 16. I think that’s better than winning 28 games and losing in the first round of the NCAA tournament.
Come on AlpharettaCuse ! Awful??? That Ennis led one started 25-0! Where are we all getting this revisionist history? Sure, you can say that with a few of the games, we had luck on our side. But even without the luck, the team is like 22-3 or something, which is still a top 10 team! And if you look at the actual statistics, we were a slower paced team, which accounted for the somewhat lower PPG average, but we still finished as the 28th most efficient offense that season, per KenPom! (13th in defensive efficiency, fwiw.) Not awful in the least! I expect better from you.
 

bpo57

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Come on AlpharettaCuse ! Awful??? That Ennis led one started 25-0! Where are we all getting this revisionist history? Sure, you can say that with a few of the games, we had luck on our side. But even without the luck, the team is like 22-3 or something, which is still a top 10 team! And if you look at the actual statistics, we were a slower paced team, which accounted for the somewhat lower PPG average, but we still finished as the 28th most efficient offense that season, per KenPom! (13th in defensive efficiency, fwiw.) Not awful in the least! I expect better from you.
But we lost to Dayton in the third round so by his logic that wipes out everything that happened prior to that for both Ennis and the team.
 
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Come on AlpharettaCuse ! Awful??? That Ennis led one started 25-0! Where are we all getting this revisionist history? Sure, you can say that with a few of the games, we had luck on our side. But even without the luck, the team is like 22-3 or something, which is still a top 10 team! And if you look at the actual statistics, we were a slower paced team, which accounted for the somewhat lower PPG average, but we still finished as the 28th most efficient offense that season, per KenPom! (13th in defensive efficiency, fwiw.) Not awful in the least! I expect better from you.
Yeah, we couldn't score during the ACC season. Awful is probably the wrong word, and deliberate is definitely better. But at the end of the day, we couldn't score points and struggled to a 3-6 finish. We scored 53 in the loss to Dayton.
 

Alsacs

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I'm going to duck out of this, because it seems pointless, but seriously, can you not imagine how one player might affect things differently in a different context? Ennis was not wholely responsible for that offense. But, either way, that offense was good enough to go 25-0 and finish second in the ACC. A Howard-led offense has been mid-pack. Whatever. Wiki says the Ennis team won a game before losing to Dayton in the third round.

I really just don't understand the need to judge an entire season based on the last game, and further, to have each individual assessed based on a collective effort... again, in the last game. Maybe you could answer my Longley/Barkley (or substitute Ewing, if you need to be absolutely like-for-like) analogy. Which is the better player? Longley, because he's got rings?
He ignores the problem of that offense was Cooney wasn't consistent and Fair/Grant had poor games in the against Dayton.
JB not having a 4th ACC level guard killed that team. JB didn't trust Gbinije fully yet. It was all Ennis and Cooney at the guard and then Gbinije as the 3rd guard.
Of course he wants to blame it on Ennis why the offense struggled. When Ennis being a stud as a freshman completely bailed that team out and since then we haven't had a PG come as a Freshman and contribute like him.

Gbinije developed into a first team All-ACC player 2 years later.
Our problem has been our starters have had all the pressure on them and we don't have depth and JB plays a short rotation. Our top guys haven't been as good as they were in the Big East era. Thus, we have good games and bad games but our talent isn't massively better than the middle of the road conference teams.
 
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He ignores the problem of that offense was Cooney wasn't consistent and Fair/Grant had poor games in the against Dayton.
JB not having a 4th ACC level guard killed that team. JB didn't trust Gbinije fully yet. It was all Ennis and Cooney at the guard and then Gbinije as the 3rd guard.
Of course he wants to blame it on Ennis why the offense struggled. When Ennis being a stud as a freshman completely bailed that team out and since then we haven't had a PG come as a Freshman and contribute like him.

Gbinije developed into a first team All-ACC player 2 years later.
Our problem has been our starters have had all the pressure on them and we don't have depth and JB plays a short rotation. Our top guys haven't been as good as they were in the Big East era. Thus, we have good games and bad games but our talent isn't massively better than the middle of the road conference teams.
A. I'm not ignoring anything. I just stated that offense and ultimately that team wasn't very good.

B. I didn't blame Ennis for anything. He had a great freshman season and was a good point guard.

The point I was trying to make was that Ennis was a "true PG" and a highly regarded one at that, and our offense wasn't any better than it's been with a combo PG that you and your buddies keep trying to rip.
 

Alsacs

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A. I'm not ignoring anything. I just stated that offense and ultimately that team wasn't very good.

B. I didn't blame Ennis for anything. He had a great freshman season and was a good point guard.

The point I was trying to make was that Ennis was a "true PG" and a highly regarded one at that, and our offense wasn't any better than it's been with a combo PG that you and your buddies keep trying to rip.
LOL if you think Frank Howard and Tyler Ennis belong in the same sentence I won't even bother engaging you as that argument is not living in reality.
2014 Tyler Ennis was all-ACC 2nd team, first team all-ACC defensive team, and a unanimous all-ACC rookie team.

LOL if you think Frank Howard is even in his league. Ennis bailed that team out of multiple games. St. Francis, Villanova, NC State, Pittsburgh x2.
To even make the argument that because our offense struggled that year has anything to do with the offense this year is just flat out stupid.

In fact that team was bailed out by Ennis. If Jim Boeheim had a 4th guard and another option at SG that team could have won the NC. The SG position KILLED them in that Dayton game. Our starting shooting guard couldn;'t do anything and it allowed the opponent to flood the paint and killed Grant/Fair with doubles.
If we had Ennis 2014 any year since then we are a better team no doubt. Frank Howard played well last year but he isn't playing well this year. He isn't moving on defense and he won't do anything on offense except shoot.
 
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LOL if you think Frank Howard and Tyler Ennis belong in the same sentence I won't even bother engaging you as that argument is not living in reality.
2014 Tyler Ennis was all-ACC 2nd team, first team all-ACC defensive team, and a unanimous all-ACC rookie team.

LOL if you think Frank Howard is even in his league. Ennis bailed that team out of multiple games. St. Francis, Villanova, NC State, Pittsburgh x2.
To even make the argument that because our offense struggled that year has anything to do with the offense this year is just flat out stupid.

In fact that team was bailed out by Ennis. If Jim Boeheim had a 4th guard and another option at SG that team could have won the NC. The SG position KILLED them in that Dayton game. Our starting shooting guard couldn;'t do anything and it allowed the opponent to flood the paint and killed Grant/Fair with doubles.
If we had Ennis 2014 any year since then we are a better team no doubt. Frank Howard played well last year but he isn't playing well this year. He isn't moving on defense and he won't do anything on offense except shoot.
Well, Ennis led an offense that wasn’t very good, Btw, it wasn’t just Dayton. We lost 6 of 9 going down the stretch. I sat there and watched us miss about 5 shots in a row at the end against NC State in the first round of the ACCT. We couldn’t score and it showed up at the end of that season. Also Cooney shot about 38% from 3 that year and 12 ppg IIRC.

Don’t get mad at me. Lol.
 

Alsacs

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Well, Ennis led an offense that wasn’t very good, Btw, it wasn’t just Dayton. We lost 6 of 9 going down the stretch. I sat there and watched us miss about 5 shots in a row at the end against NC State in the first round of the ACCT. We couldn’t score and it showed up at the end of that season. Don’t get mad at me. Lol.
Again it wasn’t Ennis fault Trevor Cooney was played superstar minutes and JB didn’t have complete trust in Mike Gbinije or even have a 4th D-1 guard on the roster.
We were playing 3 on 5 offensively like we have been a lot recently.
If 2014 had 2016 Gbinije or 2013 Triche it has a good offense.
You realize that the roster was flawed offensively because of the SG not because of the PG.
That year when Cooney played well we never lost that isn’t a coincidence.
 
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Again it wasn’t Ennis fault Trevor Cooney was played superstar minutes and JB didn’t have complete trust in Mike Gbinije or even have a 4th D-1 guard on the roster.
We playing 3 on 5 offensively like we have been a lot recently.
If 2014 had 2016 Gbinije or 2013 Triche it has a good offense.
You realize that the roster was flawed offensively because of the SG not because of the PG.
That year when Cooney played well we never lost that isn’t a coincidence.
Wait...so we had Fair, Grant and Cooney in addition to Ennis scoring in double figures every night?
 

IthacaMatt

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In ACC games Frank has 27 assists and 21 TOs. That's very mediocre. He dribbles side to side and can rarely penetrate. He's also averaging a little more than two rebounds over that stretch. During the ACC sked he's shot the ball better but 41% from the field and <36% from three are nothing to get overly excited about. From an overall floor game perspective he's not doing much. Can't penetrate and tellingly has only been to the line in seven of the 19 games he has played in.
Frank shooting 36% from three is actually about average for decent guards across the country. That's like the minimum acceptable shooting percentage for a supposed outside shooter.

Of course, you look at Battle and Brissett, both of whom shot 32% from three last year (like Frank), and only 1 of the 3 of them is shooting better this year - and of course that's the guy who was hurt!

I share your observation that Frank has become a side-to-side player and can't seem to get past anyone in the lane anymore.

Tyus and Buddy may become the closers, if Frank can't get his game going again. I was reading that Buddy only has 5 turnovers in ACC play. If he keeps that up - just making the simple plays and trying to slide to open spots when we're on offense - that's enough for this team.
 

Alsacs

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Wait...so we had Fair, Grant and Cooney in addition to Ennis scoring in double figures every night?
Lol i am not going to even bother. My god I already explained the problems with that offense.
Hint it wasn’t Ennis, Grant or Fair.
 

bpo57

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Yeah, we couldn't score during the ACC season. Awful is probably the wrong word, and deliberate is definitely better. But at the end of the day, we couldn't score points and struggled to a 3-6 finish. We scored 53 in the loss to Dayton.
We were 60 or below in several NCAAT games last year.
 

bpo57

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A. I'm not ignoring anything. I just stated that offense and ultimately that team wasn't very good.

B. I didn't blame Ennis for anything. He had a great freshman season and was a good point guard.

The point I was trying to make was that Ennis was a "true PG" and a highly regarded one at that, and our offense wasn't any better than it's been with a combo PG that you and your buddies keep trying to rip.
But you said you weren't sure whether you'd take Ennis over Howard. That's when the men in the white coats should have paid you a visit.
 
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