Carmelo Question

[44cuse]

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose are all on deck...if they don't win a title in the next 3 years, they will be cast off and ridiculed for sucking and not being winners.

It started with Derrick Rose today.

Blake Griffin I'm not sure will ever get to the point because he's got so many holes in his game that he may not ever reach the level where those expectations are on him. I love Blake Griffin for his athleticism, but he's got a long way to go.

44cuse

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

One thing that is becoming very clear while watching this series... Lebron and Melo should not really even be compared. They are completely different players. Lebron sees the whole floor and changes his game based on what is/isn't working. He is constantly looking to play help defense off of his man. Melo sees one thing...the basket.

I know we're supposed to hate on Lebron, but what he does for the Heat is really something. Wade isn't stirring that drink...its Lebron.

 

[samspann1]

Carmelo is the greatest player to walk this planet. Everything he does is correct. Praise be to Melo.

Solid contribution.

 

[orangehomer]

Another Melo myth from the media...

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...layer-and-what-advanced-stats-miss-about-him/

As you can tell in Denver most of the players that played with him had the TS increased.

yeah, and now they are a first round exit instead of a west coast finalist. who cares if a bunch of joe schmoes shoot a little better when they aren't defaulting to a star.

 

[djcon57]

99 pct of the planet hates LeBron? which planet would that be? i would be hesitant to take your "hatred" and project that onto 99 pct of any planet, particularly this one.

48%.

2nd most disliked player in the NBA and the 1st is because of his ex wife

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/sto...ies-most-disliked-nba-player-according-survey

 

[Niastri]

Just thinking about this last night...

It's unfortunate that Carmelo had to come into the league in the same draft class as Lebron. With similar skills, and build. With similar scoring capacity. There are too many comparisons between them, despite the fact that they really have different roles.

What i never seem to hear is that Dirk Nowitsky doesn't play defense*. That Steve Nash doesn't defend. Those guys are acclaimed for what they DO do [heh]. Mike Miller. Danny Granger. Rudy Gay... Those guys aren't considered one-dimensional, somehow. Maybe it's because we occasionally are teased by Melo's potential as a defender. But, really, there are a very small number of all-star forwards who can put up prolific scoring numbers and who are also 'lockdown' defenders. Carmelo just isn't one of them. It shouldn't be as significant a 'knock' as has been attached to him.

I remember the first college game for Carmelo. Against Memphis, at Madison Square Garden. I don't think any of us knew what we were in store for. Melo caught a pass, in the corner. He faked a two-handed pass over the defender's head. The guy was bewildered. Carmelo stepped back and popped a three. I think i said aloud, "oh $h1t."

*Heck, in the Thunder win over the Mavs yesterday, Dirk wasn't even in the game on the last defensive stand. A 'liability?' No one mentioned it.

Most of the players you would compare Anthony to are not superstar players. Those he gets compared to unfavorably are potential HoF players. Frankly, to be our current generation's Wilkins to their Johnson/Bird doesn't mean you suck. To have Jordan/Durant come behind you and overtake you doesn't make you worse.

Anthony needs to win, and I wouldn't mind seeing the Knicks win as long as our guy is the one who wins for them. Wilkins is in the HoF without winning a championship. Nobody would have considered him second rate until hindsite kicked in... If Anthony wins a championship and James doesn't!?

In ten years the story has changed.

 

[Niastri]

I know this isn't the point, but how is Dominique Wilkins before your time and Jordan isn't, since they played at pretty much the same time?

Bird was Drafted in The 1978 draft and finished playing in 1992
Johnson was Drafted in The 1979 draft 1994
Wilkins was Drafted in The 1982 draft and finished playing in 1994
Jordan was Drafted in The 1984 draft and finished playing in (effectively, ignoring the Wizards amusement) 1999

Bird, Johnson, Wilkins and Jordan were effectively contemporaries. We only think of 3 of the 4 as great players.

 

[sufandu]

Bird was Drafted in The 1978 draft and finished playing in 1992
Johnson was Drafted in The 1979 draft 1994
Wilkins was Drafted in The 1982 draft and finished playing in 1994
Jordan was Drafted in The 1984 draft and finished playing in (effectively, ignoring the Wizards amusement) 1999

Bird, Johnson, Wilkins and Jordan were effectively contemporaries. We only think of 3 of the 4 as great players.

Exactly, and It's too bad since Nique was a dominant player for such a long time.

Even though he was in decline, he actually led the Spurs in scoring with 18.2 per in 96-97 after playing in Europe the previous year and retired after the 98-99 season. 93-94 was his last dominant season in the NBA though.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Carmelo is the greatest player to walk this planet. Everything he does is correct. Praise be to Melo.

After Jim Brown. While Brown is known mostly for Football and Lacrosse, it's a little known fact that his shadow once beat Michael Jordan in one-on-one.

 

[CPAMan]

I know this isn't the point, but how is Dominique Wilkins before your time and Jordan isn't, since they played at pretty much the same time?

Great question-the "meat" of Wilkins NBA career was w/ the Hawks from 82-94(per Wiki)...and I didn't really follow the NBA until around 95 after Jordan's second return

 

[CPAMan]

In this ESPN world, where everything is about being #1 or the best and if you aren't, then you suck is just where we are today. If Melo wins a championship, that will all go away. Dirk Nowitski was never taken seriously for a decade... he was killed for being soft and not driven. He wins a title and people move on to the next guy who hasn't won it all. Melo needs to win a few playoff series and then he will get back on the national radar as being one of the very best in the NBA. He's kind of a forgotten man right now and isn't taken seriously by a lot of people. He is seen as a one trick pony.

Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin and Derrick Rose are all on deck...if they don't win a title in the next 3 years, they will be cast off and ridiculed for sucking and not being winners.

Agree 100% with respect to Blake Griffin, but NOT AT ALL WITH Dirk(except for the soft Euro part), Durant, and DRose. Let me explain:
1. Blake Griffin is a glorified Circus Freak-Shawn Kemp 20 yrs later(hopefully w/out the 20 kids w/ 20 women, drug problems, etc.) Griffin has great dunks, great. He does NOTHING else. Agree w/ you 100%. Reportedly, he did bang Kate Upton though, so I that def. counts for something
2. With respect to Dirk, Durant, and Rose-you could not be MORE WRONG. All three do multiple things well and make their teammates better. Even when Dirk was known as soft-remeber Jim Rome used to call him Irk Nowitski b/c he had no "D" he still had multiple facets to his game.
3. Carmelo(while I loved watching him at Cuse) is a one trick pony. Give him the ball and get out of the way. He has no concept of the team game and will just stand around when he doesn't have the ball. Funny another poster mentioned Glenn Robinson, because Cowherd this morning said Melo will go down w/ a legacy like G. Robinson, Tracy McGrady, and a couple others who I can't remember(which was kinda his point.)

 

[sufandu]

Great question-the "meat" of Wilkins NBA career was w/ the Hawks from 82-94(per Wiki)...and I didn't really follow the NBA until around 95 after Jordan's second return

Gotcha. That's too bad. You missed a great era. I much preferred the 91-93 championship teams to the 96-98 teams. You also had Ewing, Magic, Bird, Barkley, Olajuwon, Clyde Drexler, and Isaiah Thomas all in their prime (amongst others). I think 1985-1993 was the best period in NBA history. I became a fan in time to only really appreciate the last half of that.

 

[sufandu]

Agree 100% with respect to Blake Griffin, but NOT AT ALL WITH Dirk(except for the soft Euro part), Durant, and DRose. Let me explain:
1. Blake Griffin is a glorified Circus Freak-Shawn Kemp 20 yrs later(hopefully w/out the 20 kids w/ 20 women, drug problems, etc.) Griffin has great dunks, great. He does NOTHING else. Agree w/ you 100%. Reportedly, he did bang Kate Upton though, so I that def. counts for something
2. With respect to Dirk, Durant, and Rose-you could not be MORE WRONG. All three do multiple things well and make their teammates better. Even when Dirk was known as soft-remeber Jim Rome used to call him Irk Nowitski b/c he had no "D" he still had multiple facets to his game.
3. Carmelo(while I loved watching him at Cuse) is a one trick pony. Give him the ball and get out of the way. He has no concept of the team game and will just stand around when he doesn't have the ball. Funny another poster mentioned Glenn Robinson, because Cowherd this morning said Melo will go down w/ a legacy like G. Robinson, Tracy McGrady, and a couple others who I can't remember(which was kinda his point.)

Sadly, I have to agree. I think it speaks to the lack of preparation prior to entering the league. Players are definitely more moldable prior to becoming multi-millionaires. I'm not saying 'Melo would have a better team concept had he stayed here any longer. However, there's a reason Dean Smith was said to be the only coach that could hold Jordan to under 20 pts/game. That was an era where players learned to play within a team no matter their talent, and I'm afraid that era is long gone. The NBA is certainly a lesser product because of it.

 

[MikeSU02]

3. Carmelo(while I loved watching him at Cuse) is a one trick pony. Give him the ball and get out of the way. He has no concept of the team game and will just stand around when he doesn't have the ball. Funny another poster mentioned Glenn Robinson, because Cowherd this morning said Melo will go down w/ a legacy like G. Robinson, Tracy McGrady, and a couple others who I can't remember(which was kinda his point.)

If someone groups Big Dog with T-Mac, they have no validity. T-Mac reached a level that Robinson never came close to. They aren't in the same group. T-Mac made 2 first teams, 3 second teams and 2 third teams (all-NBA). Robinson made 2 all star games.

Melo has made 1 second team and 3 third teams (all-NBA) in an era when there is WAY more talent.

Not saying he is in the elite group of current players (LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant, etc), but he is not Glenn Robinson.

 

[realorange]

yeah, and now they are a first round exit instead of a west coast finalist. who cares if a bunch of joe schmoes shoot a little better when they aren't defaulting to a star.

Take another look Homer, they had better TS% when they played with Melo.

 

[rrlbees]

Carmelo is the greatest player to walk this planet. Everything he does is correct. Praise be to Melo.

Posts like these are just as bad, if not worse, than the posts by people who fawn over Melo. The discriminator is the fact that this is an SU board.

 

[KingOtis]

Bird was Drafted in The 1978 draft and finished playing in 1992
Johnson was Drafted in The 1979 draft 1994
Wilkins was Drafted in The 1982 draft and finished playing in 1994
Jordan was Drafted in The 1984 draft and finished playing in (effectively, ignoring the Wizards amusement) 1999

Bird, Johnson, Wilkins and Jordan were effectively contemporaries. We only think of 3 of the 4 as great players.

I would say elite instead of great. Wilkins was definitely a great player.

 

[KingOtis]

Agree 100% with respect to Blake Griffin, but NOT AT ALL WITH Dirk(except for the soft Euro part), Durant, and DRose. Let me explain:
1. Blake Griffin is a glorified Circus Freak-Shawn Kemp 20 yrs later(hopefully w/out the 20 kids w/ 20 women, drug problems, etc.) Griffin has great dunks, great. He does NOTHING else. Agree w/ you 100%. Reportedly, he did bang Kate Upton though, so I that def. counts for something
2. With respect to Dirk, Durant, and Rose-you could not be MORE WRONG. All three do multiple things well and make their teammates better. Even when Dirk was known as soft-remeber Jim Rome used to call him Irk Nowitski b/c he had no "D" he still had multiple facets to his game.
3. Carmelo(while I loved watching him at Cuse) is a one trick pony. Give him the ball and get out of the way. He has no concept of the team game and will just stand around when he doesn't have the ball. Funny another poster mentioned Glenn Robinson, because Cowherd this morning said Melo will go down w/ a legacy like G. Robinson, Tracy McGrady, and a couple others who I can't remember(which was kinda his point.)

DoctorBombay's wariness was justified...

 

[djcon57]

If someone groups Big Dog with T-Mac, they have no validity. T-Mac reached a level that Robinson never came close to. They aren't in the same group. T-Mac made 2 first teams, 3 second teams and 2 third teams (all-NBA). Robinson made 2 all star games.

Melo has made 1 second team and 3 third teams (all-NBA) in an era when there is WAY more talent.

Not saying he is in the elite group of current players (LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant, etc), but he is not Glenn Robinson.

Cowherd knows nothing about the NBA. It's embarrassing to listen to...which is why I don't usually once football season is over.

 

[CPAMan]

Cowherd knows nothing about the NBA. It's embarrassing to listen to...which is why I don't usually once football season is over.

Well, i somewhat agree in that when football is over sports is general are just BORING and very little happens save for a few brief big events(Masters, NCAA Tourney, don't like the NBA, NFL Draft, MLB is BORING, the occasional big scandal, etc.) However, I like to listen to the talk radio at work and to/from, and Herd's on at that time-it's either him, Dan Patrick, or that nutjob Glenn Beck.

 

[Niastri]

I would say elite instead of great. Wilkins was definitely a great player.

The lack of a championship is all that separates him from Jordan, Bird and Johnson. Just one season going his way in the playoffs, and he is one of the all time greats. That was my point...

It also will apply to Anthony, if he should go his career without a title.