Catholic National Champions

[SWC75]

I am not Catholic but I’ve always been fascinated with the number of Catholic Universities that have had success in basketball over the years. I wish the church would set up a tournament to determine the best of them, perhaps as a fund raiser for Catholic Charities. It obviously wouldn’t be a post-season tournament but the pre-Season NIT could be used for that. Or maybe they could revitalize the old Holiday Festival as a Christmas tournament with all the top Catholic school teams.

Absent that, I wondered what teams over the years could be retroactively declared the “Catholic National Champions”. Maybe those teams would have won such a tournament. I decided to look at the polls as listed in the ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia, which came out in 2009 and their Website for the years afterwards. I thought of looking at which Catholic team had gone the farthest in the NCAA tournament but for many years the Catholic schools preferred to send their teams to New York to play in the NIT. Rather than figure out how to value an NIT victory, (or 2nd place, third place, etc.) vs. an NCAA finish, I’ll go with the polls. The regular season is actually a better test of a team’s strength than a single elimination tournament where a bad night can end your season anyway.

The writer’s poll goes back to the 1948-49 season and the coach’s poll started two years later. For the years before that we have the Premo-Poretta Polls, which is in the ESPN encyclopedia. They retroactively rated the top 20 college teams going all the way back to 1895-96, just five years after Naismith invented the game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premo-Porretta_Power_Poll

Those guys did a lot more research than went into the Helms national champions and they gave us a top 20 each season. (Don’t worry, they still recognize our 1918 and 1926 titles).

I used this list of Catholic schools:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_universities_and_colleges_in_the_United_States
Some of them like Dayton, Creighton, Gonzaga and San Francisco, I didn’t realize were Catholic schools. They just made it all the more interesting. Some names I expected to see were missing: Temple was founded by a Baptist Minister, for example.

The following schools have won these “Catholic National Championships”. (To save some typing, the years are represented by the second calendar year of that season: 1895-96 is “1896”. )

Boston College 1967, 1994, 2001 (3)
Creighton 1918, 1924, 1942 (3)
Dayton 1907, 1913 (2)
DePaul 1935, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982 (8)
Duquesne 1933, 1934, 1940, 1941, 1952 (5)
Fordham 1925, 1928, 1929 (3)
Georgetown 1919, 1920, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 2007 (10)
Gonzaga 2002, 2013, 2015 (3)
Holy Cross 1904, 1905, 1906, 1922, 1947, 1950 (6)
LaSalle 1954 (1)
Loyola-Chicago 1939, 1963 (2)
Loyola-Marymount 1988 (1)
Manhattan 1936 (1)
Marquette 1923, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 2003, 2011, 2012 (10)
Niagara 1910 (1)
(None 1896, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 1916, 1917, 1921)
Notre Dame 1897, 1898, 1899, 1908, 1909, 1912, 1926, 1927, 1932, 1937, 1938, 1943, 1979 (13)
Providence 1973, 1997 (2)
St. Bonaventure 1960, 1961, 1968, 1970 (4)
St. Joseph’s 1965, 1966, 2004 (3)
St. John’s 1911, 1930, 1931, 1951, 1962, 1983, 1986, 1999, 2000 (9)
St. John’s-Ohio 1921 (1)
St. Louis 1948, 1949, 1959, 1998 (4)
St. Mary’s 1914 (1)
San Francisco 1955, 1956, 1958 (3)
Santa Clara 1915, 1969 (2)
Seattle 1957 (1)
Seton Hall 1953, 1991, 1992, 1993 (4)
Villanova 1964, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2014 (5)
Xavier 2008, 2010 (2)

 

[Shark58]

Yeshiva got robbed

 

[longtimefan]

I am not Catholic but I’ve always been fascinated with the number of Catholic Universities that have had success in basketball over the years. I wish the church would set up a tournament to determine the bat of them, perhaps as a fund raiser for Catholic Charities. It obviously wouldn’t be a post-season tournament but the pre-Season NIT could be used for that. Or maybe they could revitalize the old Holiday Festival as a Christmas tournament with all the top Catholic school teams.

Absent that, I wondered what teams over the years could be retroactively declared the “Catholic National Champions”. Maybe those teams would have won such a tournament. I decided to look at the polls as listed in the ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia, which came out in 2009 and their Website for the years afterwards. I thought of looking at which Catholic team had gone the farthest in the NCAA tournament but for many years the Catholic schools preferred to send their teams to New York to play in the NIT. Rather than figure out how to value an NIT victory, (or 2nd place, third place, etc.) vs. an NCAA finish, I’ll go with the polls. The regular season is actually a better test of a team’s strength than a single elimination tournament where a bad night can end your season anyway.

The writer’s poll goes back to the 1948-49 season and the coach’s poll started two years later. For the years before that we have the Premo-Poretta Polls, which is in the ESPN encyclopedia. They retroactively rated the top 20 college teams going all the way back to 1895-96, just five years after Naismith invented the game:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premo-Porretta_Power_Poll

Those guys did a lot more research than went into the Helms national champions and they gave us a top 20 each season. (Don’t worry, they still recognize our 1918 and 1926 titles).

I used this list of Catholic schools:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_universities_and_colleges_in_the_United_States
Some of them like Dayton, Creighton, Gonzaga and San Francisco, I didn’t realize were Catholic schools. They just made it all the more interesting. Some names I expected to see were missing: Temple was founded by a Baptist Minister, for example.

The following schools have won these “Catholic National Championships”. (To save some typing, the years are represented by the second calendar year of that season: 1895-96 is “1896”. )

Boston College 1967, 1994, 2001 (3)
Creighton 1918, 1924, 1942 (3)
Dayton 1907, 1913 (2)
DePaul 1935, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1978, 1980, 1981, 1982 (8)
Duquesne 1933, 1934, 1940, 1941, 1952 (5)
Fordham 1925, 1928, 1929 (3)
Georgetown 1919, 1920, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1995, 1996, 2007 (10)
Gonzaga 2002, 2013, 2015 (3)
Holy Cross 1904, 1905, 1906, 1922, 1947, 1950 (6)
LaSalle 1954 (1)
Loyola-Chicago 1939, 1963 (2)
Loyola-Marymount 1988 (1)
Manhattan 1936 (1)
Marquette 1923, 1971, 1972, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977, 2003, 2011, 2012 (10)
Niagara 1910 (1)
(None 1896, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 1916, 1917, 1921)
Notre Dame 1897, 1898, 1899, 1908, 1909, 1912, 1926, 1927, 1932, 1937, 1938, 1943, 1979 (13)
Providence 1973, 1997 (2)
St. Bonaventure 1960, 1961, 1968, 1970 (4)
St. Joseph’s 1965, 1966, 2004 (3)
St. John’s 1911, 1930, 1931, 1951, 1962, 1983, 1986, 1999, 2000 (9)
St. John’s-Ohio 1921 (1)
St. Louis 1948, 1949, 1959, 1998 (4)
St. Mary’s 1914 (1)
San Francisco 1955, 1956, 1958 (3)
Santa Clara 1915, 1969 (2)
Seattle 1957 (1)
Seton Hall 1953, 1991, 1992, 1993 (4)
Villanova 1964, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2014 (5)
Xavier 2008, 2010 (2)

I wonder if the "Notre Dame Effect" carries over from football to basketball.

 

[KaiserUEO]

looks to me that all you managed to do was find a way to give gtown a whole hell of a lot more championships than they deserve...including robbing nova of 1 and giving it to them.

 

[SWC75]

looks to me that all you managed to do was find a way to give gtown a whole hell of a lot more championships than they deserve...including robbing nova of 1 and giving it to them.

Well, if they actually had the tournament I've described, that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[cto]

UH, Didn't Villanova win the "real" national championship in 1985? When they beat Georgetown? Seems like they should also be the Catholic champion.

 

[Bortukal]

Sacred Heart University 1985 NCAA D2 National Champions.

Only a matter of time before the Pioneers make this list.

 

[SWC75]

UH, Didn't Villanova win the "real" national championship in 1985? When they beat Georgetown? Seems like they should also be the Catholic champion.

"I thought of looking at which Catholic team had gone the farthest in the NCAA tournament but for many years the Catholic schools preferred to send their teams to New York to play in the NIT. Rather than figure out how to value an NIT victory, (or 2nd place, third place, etc.) vs. an NCAA finish, I’ll go with the polls. The regular season is actually a better test of a team’s strength than a single elimination tournament where a bad night can end your season anyway."

 

[MG44]

I am not Catholic but I’ve always been fascinated with the number of Catholic Universities that have had success in basketball over the years. I wish the church would set up a tournament to determine the bat of them, perhaps as a fund raiser for Catholic Charities. It obviously wouldn’t be a post-season tournament but the pre-Season NIT could be used for that. Or maybe they could revitalize the old Holiday Festival as a Christmas tournament with all the top Catholic school teams.

I think this would be great,
Especially a Christmas time tournament...would be some good basketball at a time when most teams are still playing a cupcake schedule.
It would be a nice financial shot in the arm to a bunch of basketball only schools.
Probably a nice recruiting tool if it became a big NYC/Christmas time event
And I think I'd actually be interested in seeing who won it each year

 

[IthacaMatt]

"I thought of looking at which Catholic team had gone the farthest in the NCAA tournament but for many years the Catholic schools preferred to send their teams to New York to play in the NIT. Rather than figure out how to value an NIT victory, (or 2nd place, third place, etc.) vs. an NCAA finish, I’ll go with the polls. The regular season is actually a better test of a team’s strength than a single elimination tournament where a bad night can end your season anyway."

Was it that the Catholic schools "preferred" the NIT, or was it because the NCAA was limited primarily to conference champions for many years?

 

[Jasoncuse]

That's a good idea.

A 32 team early season even could be achieved, with the finals played around the holidays. Those teams would get solid OOC games, playing in a national, well-known tourney.

Of course, in a down year like this, where only Notre Dame, Xavier, Villanova, Seton Hall, Dayton, Providence are relevant, it could be pretty boring until the late stages.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Was it that the Catholic schools "preferred" the NIT, or was it because the NCAA was limited primarily to conference champions for many years?

pretty sure it was because the NCAA was limited. a lot of the catholic schools were all independent in the northeast and would then play in the ECAC Tourney, which got to send 1 to the NCAA.

thus making the ole ECAC and the NIT a big deal here in NYC and the northeast in general.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Yeshiva got robbed

I've heard they have a good fencing team - true story

 

[SWC75]

Was it that the Catholic schools "preferred" the NIT, or was it because the NCAA was limited primarily to conference champions for many years?

In the early years, (1930's, 1940's, the NIT was arguably the more prestigious tournament as it was played in MSG. The NCAA had a bunch of "at large" bids that were filled by independents for years but it was a much smaller tournament than it is now and many good teams went to the NIT. Many of them were Catholic schools.

Let's look at some specific years:

1939 Premo-Poretta has Loyola-Chicago as their #2 team at 21-1. They were actually undefeated going into the NIT and met undefeated LIU in the finals, losing 32-44. It's the only time two undefeated teams played for the championship of a post season tournament. #6 St. Johns finished 4th in the NIT. #13 Villanova was the highest ranked Catholic school in the NCAA tournament.

1940 #5 Duquesne was in both tournaments, which was possible at that time. The lost in the finals of the NIT and in the eastern regional finals of the NCAAs. #10 DePaul lost in the first round of the NIT.

1941 #9 Duquesne settled for the NIT this year but lost in the first round. #14 Seton Hall was third in the IT. The only Catholic school in the NCAA was #22 Creighton, who lost in the first round.

1942 The #15 Blue Jays were the highest raked Catholic team this year and went to the NIT, where they won 3rd place. There were no Catholic teams in the NCAA that year.

1943 #3 Notre Dame was the highest rated team but didn't deign to go to either tournament. #4 St. John's won the NIT while #6 Creighton lost in the NIT first round. #7 Georgetown went to the NCAAs and lost in the finals to Wyoming.

1944 #^ St. John's beat #5 DePaul in the NIT finals. #9 Gonzaga stayed home. So did #22 St. Joseph's and #25 Notre Dame. The NCAA had no Catholic schools.

1945#3 DePaul won the NIT while #9 St. John's was in third place. #9 Notre Dame again stayed home and the NCAAs again had no Catholic teams.

1946 #6 DePaul stayed home, for some reason, as did #10 Notre Dame and #16 Holy Cross. The NCAAs had no Catholic teams and the only one in the NIT was St. John's , who lost in the 1st round.

1947 #2 Holy Cross won the NCAAs#5 Duquesne lost in the first round of the NIT. #11 Notre Dame and #16 Seton Hall stayed home while #24 S. John's lost in the NIT.

1948 #2 St. Louis wo the NIT. #4 Holy Cross lost in the NCAA eastern finals. #8 DePaul was 4th in the NIT. #22 LaSalle lost in the NIT and #25 Loyola-Chicago stayed home.

1949. Now we have the AP poll, including the last poll of the regular season. #3 St. Louis lost in the NIT as did #8 San Francisco, who beat #16 in the consolation game. #14 Villanova was the only NCAA team but lost in the first round, (which was the Sweet 16).

1950 #4 Holy Cross lost in the first round of the NCAA's.#6 Duquesne lost the NIT consy to #9 St. John's. The Dukes had beaten #10 LaSalle in the same tournament. which also featured #12 San Francisco. #11 Villanova stayed home.

1951 #10 St. John's beat Seton Hall for third place in the NIT while #11 St. Louis lost in the quarters. #13 Dayton lost to the BYU Mormons in the title game. ST. Bonaventure, #19 in the coach's poll was also in the NIT. #18 Siena stayed home. St. Johns did the double, losing to Kentucky in NCAA eastern finals, which were held in MSG. #20 Villanova lost in the first round.

1952 Doing the double, (playing in both tournaments) was becoming popular since CCNY won both in 1950. #4 Duquesne did the double, finishing 4th in the NIT and losing the Mideast final in the NCAAs. So did #7 St. Louis, who lost in the NIT quarters and the Midwestern finals and #9 St. Johns who also lost in the NIT quarters but went all the way to the NCAA finals, losing to Kansas. And there was Dayton, who lost in the NIT finals and in first round of the Mideast regional. #11 St. Bonaventure won 3rd place in the NIT while Seton Hall lost in the first round to #17 LaSalle who won the NIT.

1953 The double-dipping stopped as the NCAAs created a first round before the Sweet 16. #3 LaSalle lost in the NIT quarterfinals while #4 Seton Hall won the NIT over #20 S. John's. and had the country's best record at 31-2. #11 Duquesne was 3rd place in the NIT. #14 Seattle lost in the Sweet 16. #17 Notre Dame finally decided to get in on the act and went to the mid-eastern finals. Unranked Holy Cross made it to the Eastern Regional finals. Unranked Santa Clara lost in the Sweet 16.

1954 #3 Duquesne lost to #9 Holy Cross in the NIT finals. #6 Notre Dame went to the Eastern finals in the NCAA. #11 Seattle stayed home. #12 LaSalle won the NCAA championship. #15 Dayton lost in the NIT quarterfinals.

1955 #1 San Francisco won the NCAA title over #3 LaSalle. #6 Duquesne won the NIT over #9 Dayton, the one year where all finalists were Catholic schools. #8 Marquette lost in the Mideast finals. #20 St. Louis, Coach's #16 Niagara and #19 Holy Cross were all in the NIT.

1956 #1 San Francisco repeated as NCAA champions. #3 Dayton lost in the NIT finals. #14 Holy Cross lost in the NCAA 1st round.

1957 #5 Seattle stayed home. #10 St. Louis, #17 Notre Dame and #20 Canisius lost in the Sweet 16. Coach's #12 Dayton and #18 Xavier lost in the NIT.

1958 #4 San Francisco lost to #18 Seattle in the Sweet 16. Seattle lost to Kentucky in the finals. #8 Notre Dame lost in the Mideast finals. #11 Dayton lost to unranked Xavier in the NIT finals while Coach's #18 St. Bonaventure beat unranked St. John's in the consy, so all the NIT semi-finalists were Catholic schools.

1959 #12 St. Louis lost in the NIT. #13 Seattle stayed home. #14 St. Joseph's went to the Sweet 16 #15 St. Mary's went to the west regional finals. #19 St. Bonaventure lost in the NIT. #20 Marquette went to the Sweet 16. , as did unranked DePaul. Coach's #17 St. John's won the NIT.

1960 #9 St. Bonaventure finished 3rd in the NIT and #14 Providence finished 2nd. #15 St. Louis #16 Holy Cross #17 Villanova #20 St. John's Coach's #20 Dayton all lost in the NIT. Unranked St. Joseph's DePaul and Santa Clara all lost in the Sweet 16 in the NCAAs.

1961 #3 St. Bonaventure, (the AP was only voting for a top 10 in this period while UPI- the coach's poll- was using a top 25) was 3rd in the NCAA eastern regional. Coach's #8 St. John's lost in the NCAA first round. #14 St. Louis lost to unranked Providence in the NIT final. #16 St. Joseph's won a legendary 4 overtime NCAA consy over Utah 127-120, (can you imagine playing 4 overtimes in a consy?) #17 Dayton lost the NIT consy to unranked Holy Cross. #23 Niagara lost in the NIT quarters.

1962 There were no Catholic schools in the AP top 25. The Coaches had #20 Villanova and #25 St. Joseph's lost in the Sweet 16, as did unranked Creighton. #22 Dayton won the NIT over #12 St. John's while #13 Loyola Chicago defeated #18 Duquesne for third place.

1963 #3 Loyola-Chicago won the National championship. #13 Providence won the NIT over unranked Canisius. Unranked Marquette beat unranked Villanova in the consy so it was another all-Catholic finals four for the NIT. #16 St. Joseph's lost in the Eastern Finals #19 Seattle lost in the NCAA first round.

1964 #7 Villanova and #8 Loyola-Chicago lost in the sweet 16 #9 DePaul #13 San Francisco went to the finals of the western regional #19 Providence lost in the NCAA first round. it was the first year no ranked Catholic team went to the NIT, which had no Catholic teams in their final four, (Bradley beat New Mexico in the finals while Army beat NYU in the consy.)

1965 #3 St. Joseph's lost to #4 Providence in the Sweet 16 lost in the eastern regional finals #8 Villanova lost to unranked St. John's in the NIT finals. #10 San Francisco lost in the western regional final #20 Dayton.

1966 #5 St. Joseph's and #19 Dayton lost in the Sweet 16. #6 Loyola Chicago and #10 Providence lost in the NCAA first round, the second year that no ranked Catholic team went to the NIT, where unranked Villanova finished third.

1967 #9 Boston College lost in the eastern regional finals after beating #12 St. John's in the Sweet 16. #17 Providence lost in the NIt, where unranked Marquette lost in the finals to Southern Illinois. Unranked Dayton made it all the way to the NCAA finals and lost to UCLA.

1968 #3 St. Bonaventure and #10 Marquette lost in the Sweet 16, #17 Santa Clara in the western finals. Again, there were no ranked Catholic schools in the NIT, which was won by Dayton over Kansas with Notre Dame beating St. Peters in the consy.

1969 #4 Santa Clara lost in the west final. #6 LaSalle #8 St. John's #10 Duquesne lost in the Sweet 16 #14 Marquette lost in the mid-east final #15 Boston College lost the NIT final to Temple. #15 Villanova, (there was a tie in the coach's poll) lost in the NCAA first round.

1970 #3 St. Bonaventure lost in the NCAA final four, (after Bob Lanier was hurt). #8 Marquette went to the NIT because Al McGuire didn't like being put in the regional the NCAA had chosen for his team and they won it over St. John's. #9 Notre Dame lost in the Sweet 16. #17 Niagara lost in the Sweet 16. Coach's #15 Villanova lost in the eastern finals.

The only ranked Catholic school to go to the NIT instead of the NCAA since is the 1978 Detroit team, which was 24-3 and ranked #18 and lost in the NIT quarterfinals. As with McGuire, their coach, Dick Vitale, was a New York area guy and that may have influenced the decision.

So, we've got some early years where there were no Catholic teams in the NCAAs, several other years where there were higher ranked teams in the NIT than the NCAAs, years where lower ranked teams went father in the NIT than higher ranked teams did in the NCAAs and years when teams lost in the same round of the NCAAs. I felt it best to use the same system for the entire study rather than changing it in mid-stream. It seem the most logical thing to just see who was the highest ranking team in the polls each year.