Christmas is so great for this stat alone - 37.3 MPG in conferece

[Millhouse]

Aside from last night, I know. 14 and 12 in 28 minutes, in the rare game where he got in foul trouble at least he made his minutes count

NO ONE could've predicted that he'd be that great at staying out of foul trouble

Lots of us at least knew he was good on a per 40 minutes basis

The guy is good for 19 and 10 with 3 blocks in the ACC

 

[RF2044]

Aside from last night, I know. 14 and 12 in 28 minutes, in the rare game where he got in foul trouble at least he made his minutes count

NO ONE could've predicted that he'd be that great at staying out of foul trouble

Lots of us at least knew he was good on a per 40 minutes basis

The guy is good for 19 and 10 with 3 blocks in the ACC

Its really a remarkable transformation.

Earlier in the season, I had a thread brainstorming guys who upped their game senior year. A couple of them had big years [DNic, Rick, etc.], but had been prominent players before their senior season who just took it to the next level. A few guys [Wendall Alexis, Laz, Schayes] had to wait their turn, and then put together big senior seasons.

But of them all, only Schayes compares with what we're seeing this year from Rak. In fact, I think that Rak's improvement has been so stark and is so unprecedented that he belongs in a category all to himself.

I remember earlier in the season when he was averaging about 18 ppg, wondering how much that would come down once we got into conference play. It hasn't come down at all. If anything, he's gotten better. I honestly believe he is in the discussion as one of the top 3 or 4 centers in program history. Seikaly, Smith, Bouie, and Christmas.

 

[OttoMets]

...I honestly believe he is in the discussion as one of the top 3 or 4 centers in program history. Seikaly, Smith, Bouie, and Christmas.

That's the list. And just imagine if Christmas played in an era in which referees called fouls. He'd put up Bill Walton numbers on offense.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

It raises a question I haven't seen discussed on the forum. That is,, is Raks Great Leap Forward the result of a unbelievable rise in his skills etc in one year or is it a matter of how he was used prior to this year? He hardly touched the ball last years and when he did it was no where near his performance now. He also was foul prone. Maybe because he was not happy with his offensive opportunities and or performance? I notice this year when he gets frustrated at his O game he seems to try to make things happen defensively and picks up his fouls then.

 

[orangefan13]

imo.
He wasn't at good at shooting the year before nowhere near, the touch and some of the confidence was lacking, he couldn't go left as well, or take the ball around his man from as far out as he has this year. Hes quicker this year off the dribble, and gets his own boards alittle better. Not to mention the stamina, he never dissapears from games this year, and plays more of a pf type of scoring role then the typical slow you down center role. Midseason we saw that left hand quick hook in the low post dissapear more, and he has started to develop his scoring even further out like a true pf. The guy just gets better and better as the year goes on its crazy.

 

[RF2044]

It raises a question I haven't seen discussed on the forum. That is,, is Raks Great Leap Forward the result of a unbelievable rise in his skills etc in one year or is it a matter of how he was used prior to this year? He hardly touched the ball last years and when he did it was no where near his performance now. He also was foul prone. Maybe because he was not happy with his offensive opportunities and or performance? I notice this year when he gets frustrated at his O game he seems to try to make things happen defensively and picks up his fouls then.

I don't think there's one magic bullet root cause, as much as some would like to assign one. I think it was a little from column A, B, C and D. He wasn't as focused while on the court earlier in games, he wasn't as polished skill wise as he is now, we traditionally don't feed the post, and he often got pulled for lapses.

If I had to assign weight to those factors, I'd say it is probably 40%, 15%, 20%, 25%.

 

[Millhouse]

It raises a question I haven't seen discussed on the forum. That is,, is Raks Great Leap Forward the result of a unbelievable rise in his skills etc in one year or is it a matter of how he was used prior to this year? He hardly touched the ball last years and when he did it was no where near his performance now. He also was foul prone. Maybe because he was not happy with his offensive opportunities and or performance? I notice this year when he gets frustrated at his O game he seems to try to make things happen defensively and picks up his fouls then.

i didn't like how boeheim treated him last year. this year boeheim has treated him like a grownup

 

[Cusefan0307]

What's even more impressive is because of our lack of shooting options most of the season, he is often guarded by three people at the rim. Teams don't even do that against Okafor!!!

 

[NineOneSeven]

Its really a remarkable transformation.

Earlier in the season, I had a thread brainstorming guys who upped their game senior year. A couple of them had big years [DNic, Rick, etc.], but had been prominent players before their senior season who just took it to the next level. A few guys [Wendall Alexis, Laz, Schayes] had to wait their turn, and then put together big senior seasons.

But of them all, only Schayes compares with what we're seeing this year from Rak. In fact, I think that Rak's improvement has been so stark and is so unprecedented that he belongs in a category all to himself.

I remember earlier in the season when he was averaging about 18 ppg, wondering how much that would come down once we got into conference play. It hasn't come down at all. If anything, he's gotten better. I honestly believe he is in the discussion as one of the top 3 or 4 centers in program history. Seikaly, Smith, Bouie, and Christmas.

Who is this Bouie guy?

 

[Cusefan0307]

i didn't like how boeheim treated him last year. this year boeheim has treated him like a grownup

Do you think Keita played too much? The only thing I remember last year about JB and Rak was JB being pi$$ed he didn't finish a bunny against BC at home for us to win.

 

[Millhouse]

Do you think Keita played too much? The only thing I remember last year about JB and Rak was JB being pi$$ed he didn't finish a bunny against BC at home for us to win.

Not to be harsh but... (as usual, whatever follows is way too harsh)... Keita was the board mascot. I thought his dreadful hands made him a total liability on offense and i think it's obvious from this year that Christmas should've gotten way more minutes

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not to be harsh but... (as usual, whatever follows is way too harsh)... Keita was the board mascot. I thought his dreadful hands made him a total liability on offense and i think it's obvious from this year that Christmas should've gotten way more minutes

I think Keita earned a lot of trust from Boeheim due to his play late in the 2013 season. It's easy to remember he couldn't play offense, be we didn't count on our centers to provide any O the last two years, and there were times he was just more active/better defensively than Roc.. I know Baye was limited, but he did have times where he added value to the program in big games, and with all due respect to Brandon Triche/James Southerland/Trevor Cooney, Baye Keita was a beast in the 2013 BET Semi's in our last game against the Hoyas, and the main reason we won.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=2D9CDC774529785F738C2D9CDC774529785F738C

 

[Millhouse]

I think Keita earned a lot of trust from Boeheim due to his play late in the 2013 season. It's easy to remember he couldn't play offense, be we didn't count on our centers to provide any O the last two years, and there were times he was just more active/better defensively than Roc.. I know Baye was limited, but he did have times where he added value to the program in big games, and with all due respect to Brandon Triche/James Southerland/Trevor Cooney, Baye Keita was a beast in the 2013 BET Semi's in our last game against the Hoyas, and the main reason we won.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=2D9CDC774529785F738C2D9CDC774529785F738C

i know he didn't trust christmas on O. i think he was wrong not to

 

[dasher]

Not to be harsh but... (as usual, whatever follows is way too harsh)... Keita was the board mascot. I thought his dreadful hands made him a total liability on offense and i think it's obvious from this year that Christmas should've gotten way more minutes

This year isn't last year. Rak took his game to a level he wasn't near at last year. This is a common error that fans make. A guy is doing something now, he would have neen doing at least close to this last year. I think back to Leo Rautins as a soph. most of the year, he couldn't play. A light bulb went off and he was terrific. If we knew why, we'd have tristan's money.

 

[stuckinbig11]

Rak worked his butt off last summer, plain and simple. It paid off.

 

[Millhouse]

This year isn't last year. Rak took his game to a level he wasn't near at last year. This is a common error that fans make. A guy is doing something now, he would have neen doing at least close to this last year. I think back to Leo Rautins as a soph. most of the year, he couldn't play. A light bulb went off and he was terrific. If we knew why, we'd have tristan's money.

i'm not saying i would've definitely been right but for me, this isn't hindsight. i wanted more christmas last year and I thought boeheim showed up him way too much.

we're talking about baye moussa keita here.

you don't need to be senior year Rak to take away as many minutes as possible from senior year Baye. keita wasn't good enough for 15 mpg

 

[Millhouse]

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/rakeem-christmas-1.html

look at per 40 shooting % and rebounding

the difference this year is star treatment from refs and boeheim. more minutes, more touches on offense and more respect from refs

 

[dasher]

i'm not saying i would've definitely been right but for me, this isn't hindsight. i wanted more christmas last year and I thought boeheim showed up him way too much.

we're talking about baye moussa keita here.

you don't need to be senior year Rak to take away as many minutes as possible from senior year Baye. keita wasn't good enough for 15 mpg

The team seemed to play well with Keita in the game. Would love to see #'s on that.

 

[Hoov50]

Its really a remarkable transformation.

Earlier in the season, I had a thread brainstorming guys who upped their game senior year. A couple of them had big years [DNic, Rick, etc.], but had been prominent players before their senior season who just took it to the next level. A few guys [Wendall Alexis, Laz, Schayes] had to wait their turn, and then put together big senior seasons.

But of them all, only Schayes compares with what we're seeing this year from Rak. In fact, I think that Rak's improvement has been so stark and is so unprecedented that he belongs in a category all to himself.

I remember earlier in the season when he was averaging about 18 ppg, wondering how much that would come down once we got into conference play. It hasn't come down at all. If anything, he's gotten better. I honestly believe he is in the discussion as one of the top 3 or 4 centers in program history. Seikaly, Smith, Bouie, and Christmas.

Christmas has definitely improved from last year to this year, but another major factor is that he is passed the ball! I can remember watching him as a sophomore and a junior and in the beginning of games he would work his tail off to get position in the post and was NEVER rewarded with the ball. As the game went on he would either get physically tired or mentally tired of working hard with no reward. He wouldn't have averaged 18 and 10 as a sophomore and junior, but he certainly would have been better than 6 and 5 if he ever was passed the ball.

 

[shandeezy7]

That's the list. And just imagine if Christmas played in an era in which referees called fouls. He'd put up Bill Walton numbers on offense.

Etan Thomas doesn't make it on this list? He was much more consistent over his career than Christmas, was an elite rim defender and went on to play 9 seasons in the NBA

 

[JCDATHIRD]

Christmas has definitely improved from last year to this year, but another major factor is that he is passed the ball! I can remember watching him as a sophomore and a junior and in the beginning of games he would work his tail off to get position in the post and was NEVER rewarded with the ball. As the game went on he would either get physically tired or mentally tired of working hard with no reward. He wouldn't have averaged 18 and 10 as a sophomore and junior, but he certainly would have been better than 6 and 5 if he ever was passed the ball.

Mike G is better at entry passes than Ennis or MCW ever were. Its strange.

 

[JCDATHIRD]

Etan Thomas doesn't make it on this list? He was much more consistent over his career than Christmas, was an elite rim defender and went on to play 9 seasons in the NBA

Etan HAS to be on this list.

 

[RF2044]

Etan Thomas doesn't make it on this list? He was much more consistent over his career than Christmas, was an elite rim defender and went on to play 9 seasons in the NBA

Etan has a better overall career than Rak, but Rak is a better player this year than Etan was his senior year.

Etan would be fifth in my list, behind the group above.

 

[Millhouse]

The team seemed to play well with Keita in the game. Would love to see #'s on that.

well, i did get my way against Dayton and we all know how that went! keita with 3 minutes. i don't remember that game well. repressed memory. did he do something to make JB crazy?

christmas got minutes but he didn't get the ball

 

[RF2044]

Etan HAS to be on this list.

Ahead of who? Certainly not Seikaly. He didn't have as good of a year as Rak is having this year, so Rak is above him. I know that most don't have perspective on Bill Smith--but trust me, Smith might be the top player on this list. And was Etan better than Bouie? Judgement call there. But it is a pretty easy argument to slate those four ahead of Thomas. And that's no knock on Etan, and more of a acknowledgement about how good those other four were / are.

That Rak has put himself in this conversation with his play this year is a testimony to what an incredible year he's had.