Christmas Learning, CJ Likely to Start?

[OrangeMuskyFish]

I want Christmas in there to start. I don't think anybody really questions that Fair will be more effective/consistent/multi-dimensional than Rak this year... so just a debate on strategy. I like having offense and versatility coming off the bench. I think Dion, Fair, and BMK will give us a tremendous amount of it. I am glad that the hype for Christmas is being tempered though. While we are all excited about our recently improving size/potential under the hoop, there really is no reason to expect he will do anything more with the ball in his hands than Baye and Fab of last year.

 

[jordoo]

I'm in the start CJ camp. I don't want to endure another season of sheety starts because we have a big who just isn't ready starting the game. We will already be dealing with Fab in the line up, and although I think he will improve A LOT from last season and have a good year, it seems adding Christmas is just asking for slow starts if Christmas is going to be nothing but a put back guy on offense.

The other issue is defense and I but dollars to donuts CJ is better all season on the wing Christmas. While Christmas may be a better rebounder I'm not sure that's the case and a second season CJ could be one of our best reboinders IMO.

 

[cuseincincy]

I just don't see Fair as being big enough to hold down the 4, no matter what his skill set is.

Yep, this is where I am. CJ will play many minutes "at the 4" this year. But SU will be playing undersized when he does. I love CJ and his game. But you need to give Rak as much time as possible, especially early when it might be temptiong to go small against smaller teams. CJ is the 2nd best forward on the team without a doubt. But he's behind KJo at his position. I fully expect CJ to finish in the top 5 in minutes along with KJo, Scoop, BT and Dion. They are our 5 best players but only 3 will start.

 

[realorange]

Christmas will get plenty of time to show/learn in the early season games. Going in after we have a 15 point lead will be less pressure to produce and a longer leash from JB. If he shows he can play at a higher level than many of us think at this point, then maybe we can talk about him starting. From anything we know, Fair is clearly the superior player at this point.

 

[007]

As the meat of the schedule heats up, JB has historically favored players with better offensive skill sets to get the lion's share of the minutes, which essentially shortens the bench. CJ and KJ will be taking those minutes. If Fab becomes a dominant inside scorer, we may see a little more of X at the 4, but CJ and KJ will still get the minutes. If anything, I could see times when KJ is situationally moved to the 2 when we need to get bigger, with CJ to the 3, and JS to the 4. Fab, Baye and X give you 15 fouls to use at Center; all can block shots and rebound.

 

[JOC44]

im with you dick!

You really should put a comma in there.

 

[cortacuse]

If Southerland has to play extended minutes at the 4 we are screwed... not tough and doesnt rebound... remember JB's comment about his rebounding last year?... CJ seemed to be a much better offensive rebounder than defensive rebounder last year... start RAK and bring CJ off of the bench...

 

[cuseincincy]

Let me get this straight...the team has yet to play an actual exhibition game yet we are ready to bench one of our McD AA recruits who just happens to be the only player on the roster to be an actual power forward. There is more to winning than offensive skill sets and shooting ability. There is defense and rebounding. I would be willing to bet that Christmas may already superior to CJ in those 2 areas.

 

[cuseincincy]

As the meat of the schedule heats up, JB has historically favored players with better offensive skill sets to get the lion's share of the minutes, which essentially shortens the bench. CJ and KJ will be taking those minutes. If Fab becomes a dominant inside scorer, we may see a little more of X at the 4, but CJ and KJ will still get the minutes. If anything, I could see times when KJ is situationally moved to the 2 when we need to get bigger, with CJ to the 3, and JS to the 4. Fab, Baye and X give you 15 fouls to use at Center; all can block shots and rebound.

I don't see KJ getting any guard minutes at all. Not with Scoop, BT, Dion and MCW on the roster.

 

[jordoo]

Let me get this straight...the team has yet to play an actual exhibition game yet we are ready to bench one of our McD AA recruits who just happens to be the only player on the roster to be an actual power forward. There is more to winning than offensive skill sets and shooting ability. There is defense and rebounding. I would be willing to bet that Christmas may already superior to CJ in those 2 areas.

I doubt that Rak will be better in the zone that CJ as a defender! CJ has a year of experiance and will be quicker IMO. Sure Rak will more than likely be a better weak side shot blocker but CJ was no slouch challenging shots from the weakside either.
Is Rak a better rebounder than CJ? We don't know and CJ was pretty good at it for a smallish forward. I expect him to be better at it this year. If Rak is some amazing rebounder then yah I get it, but we really don't now that he is.

 

[OttoMets]

Freshmen only start if there is am absolute need at the position or if he is ready for the position.

One could argue that Triche fit neither criterion two years ago, and I think it worked out pretty well.

All summer long I was in the "No way Christmas starts - we'd play 4-on-5 on offense" camp. A lot of People Who Know have said with certainty that he'll start, though, and I could see why:

Christmas (unless Boeheim yanks him and crushes his confidence as he did with Fab) will benefit more from starting than from coming off the bench;

Fair will offer more as a sixth or seventh man than Christmas could;

Fair is not a traditional four; and (here's the unmentioned one)

We lost something like 32 of 35 opening tips last year with Fab, Keita, and maybe Southerland (once) jumping center. Fair wouldn't improve that. Christmas could. (OK, this can't be the deciding factor in starting a guy. But it's a nice secondary benefit.)

My revised guess is that Christmas starts and gets Craig Forth minutes; Fair comes off the bench as instant offense.

 

[OttoMets]

Yep, this is where I am. CJ will play many minutes "at the 4" this year. But SU will be playing undersized when he does. I love CJ and his game. But you need to give Rak as much time as possible, especially early when it might be temptiong to go small against smaller teams. CJ is the 2nd best forward on the team without a doubt. But he's behind KJo at his position. I fully expect CJ to finish in the top 5 in minutes along with KJo, Scoop, BT and Dion. They are our 5 best players but only 3 will start.

Agree on all points (well, not 100% sure that Fair is the second-best forward on the team...time will tell). Great post.

 

[OttoMets]

As the meat of the schedule heats up, JB has historically favored players with better offensive skill sets to get the lion's share of the minutes

I'm not sure I see that at all. Historically, Boeheim favors guys who rebound and play defense. This is why people like Mookie and Southerland have had trouble staying in the rotation.

 

[Antiprodigy]

Xmas will get play in games that are open and flowing, with lots of up and down the court. Half court games, CJ will own, and you may not see much of Xmas.

 

[arbitragegls]

...this is weird...discussing minutes and going bench deep at 7+...I really feel that we are in great shape regardless who starts. I see significant minutes being taken by:
KJ, Scoop, Triche...with major minutes by Melo, Keita, Waiters, CJ and Christmas....now that is 8 guys...the remaining bench will play it out based on practice and showing in games...going to be difficult to keep MCW, Southerland and Cooney out of action...so as I once posted...maybe we should go 10 deep and play a second relief squad for 3-5 minutes a half...we are that deep

 

[Dick_in_MI]

I just don't see Fair as being big enough to hold down the 4, no matter what his skill set is.

He played the 4 on a number of occasions last year when we moved Rick to the middle. He is slender but a good rebounder and being physical matters less in the zone...Exhibit A being Warrick and Exhibit B being Damone Brown

 

[OttoMets]

He played the 4 on a number of occasions last year when we moved Rick to the middle. He is slender but a good rebounder and being physical matters less in the zone...Exhibit A being Warrick and Exhibit B being Damone Brown

All three are slender, sure, but no one in the Big East was going over Warrick's or Brown's back. Fair's considerably shorter than those two, and people can go over his back (and did so frequently last season).

Not disagreeing with your point, though. Fair has played the 4 pretty well in spots, and is likely to do so again.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

All three are slender, sure, but no one in the Big East was going over Warrick's or Brown's back. Fair's considerably shorter than those two, and people can go over his back (and did so frequently last season).

Not disagreeing with your point, though. Fair has played the 4 pretty well in spots, and is likely to do so again.

According to several posters, CJ has actually grown to the 6'8" he is currently listed at...this is basically what Hak and Damone were at SU and CJ's weight is about the same as theirs was as well.

 

[OttoMets]

According to several posters, CJ has actually grown to the 6'8" he is currently listed at...this is basically what Hak and Damone were at SU and CJ's weight is about the same as theirs was as well.

That'd be awfully good for us.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

That'd be awfully good for us.

It would be...let's see how accurate the hight estimates turn out to be.