CJ Returns: Official Anouncement

[CusefanATL]

Was that the question?

Sent using my Commodore 64

"bees if you have roberson starting does that mean you think or know christmas is gone?"

 

[rrlbees]

"bees if you have roberson starting does that mean you think or know christmas is gone?"

Me predicting Roberson starts has nothing to do with Rak.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[realorange]

Starting positions are Cooney's and Grant's to lose, or defend, whichever you'd like to say it.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Starting positions are Cooney's and Grant's to lose, or defend, whichever you'd like to say it.

I agree with that statement for Grant. He was called by JB as the best frosh defender he has had. The idea that Roberson, an inexperienced true frosh will beat out an experienced, good player, seems hard to accept.

But I don't see it with Cooney. I think last year MG had won third on the depth chart but was ineligible to play. If MG had been eligible I believe JB would have had MG in there at the end of the Michigan game. MG is currently ahead of Cooney on the depth chart and the job is MGs to lose (and he won't).

 

[Eric15]

Ha! I'm slow!

Edit: Looks like CuseAtl had beaten us both!

Hahaha I know I just noticed that also. My bad!

 

[CusefanATL]

Me predicting Roberson starts has nothing to do with Rak.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Fair enough... but you have to easily be able to see what the other poster was getting at?

You are casually starting a freshman over a 2 year starter whose career has started with the most wins in school history (by 7 wins if i did my math right). *edit* sorry CJ, Dion and Fab started with 61 wins, rakeem has 64.

You using 1 sentence responses with something that would frankly be considered shocking would probably cause people to question the motives.

I can't be the only 1 who thinks that.

 

[realorange]

I agree with that statement for Grant. He was called by JB as the best frosh defender he has had. The idea that Roberson, an inexperienced true frosh will beat out an experienced, good player, seems hard to accept.

But I don't see it with Cooney. I think last year MG had won third on the depth chart but was ineligible to play. If MG had been eligible I believe JB would have had MG in there at the end of the Michigan game. MG is currently ahead of Cooney on the depth chart and the job is MGs to lose (and he won't).

Well, you may be right about MG, but I don't know where you get your information. To me, because Cooney was the player this year, it's his position to lose-------which he may if MG is all you say.

 

[CusefanATL]

Well, you may be right about MG, but I don't know where you get your information. To me, because Cooney was the player this year, it's his position to lose-------which he may if MG is all you say.

IF Cooney is the player he was this year, he will lose it.

 

[orangefog]

Well, you may be right about MG, but I don't know where you get your information. To me, because Cooney was the player this year, it's his position to lose-------which he may if MG is all you say.

I don't think that the shooting guard position is Cooney's to lose. MG has been in the program for a year now and JB has seen him in practice the entire time. I think that it was well known that Wes Johnson would be a starter, even during the year he wasn't able to play. I have no insider information, but I believe that the consensus among those with some connections to the team is that MG is the frontrunner for the starting SG position. I may be wrong. Hopefully the competition at that spot will make both players, along with Buss, much better.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I don't think that the shooting guard position is Cooney's to lose. MG has been in the program for a year now and JB has seen him in practice the entire time. I think that it was well known that Wes Johnson would be a starter, even during the year he wasn't able to play. I have no insider information, but I believe that the consensus among those with some connections to the team is that MG is the frontrunner for the starting SG position. I may be wrong. Hopefully the competition at that spot will make both players, along with Buss, much better.

I, too, hope that MG is considered the presumptive starter at this point. That he has had a Wes-like presence and is considered ahead of Cooney on the depth chart.

I want to believe that because if you don't, I can't see calling SU a top 15 team at this point. Not with a back court of TylerE and Cooney. A frosh pg (although good, but not McD good), a disaster at sg, a good/great sf, a decent (with lots of potential) pf, and adequate/good centers (with lots of potential). You really shouldn't be put in the top 15 based on potential.

 

[rrlbees]

But I don't see it with Cooney. I think last year MG had won third on the depth chart but was ineligible to play. If MG had been eligible I believe JB would have had MG in there at the end of the Michigan game. MG is currently ahead of Cooney on the depth chart and the job is MGs to lose (and he won't).

Where do you get all that from?

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[rrlbees]

Fair enough... but you have to easily be able to see what the other poster was getting at?

You are casually starting a freshman over a 2 year starter whose career has started with the most wins in school history (by 7 wins if i did my math right). *edit* sorry CJ, Dion and Fab started with 61 wins, rakeem has 64.

You using 1 sentence responses with something that would frankly be considered shocking would probably cause people to question the motives.

I can't be the only 1 who thinks that.

Again, it has nothing to do with Rak staying or leaving. Imo Rak is a 5. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding my opinion. You act like I am being coy about something.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think that the shooting guard position is Cooney's to lose. MG has been in the program for a year now and JB has seen him in practice the entire time. I think that it was well known that Wes Johnson would be a starter, even during the year he wasn't able to play. I have no insider information, but I believe that the consensus among those with some connections to the team is that MG is the frontrunner for the starting SG position. I may be wrong. Hopefully the competition at that spot will make both players, along with Buss, much better.

No comparison. G will be a good player but if both had been eligible to play the day they stepped on campus, Wes would have started, G would not. He could become a very good player but if people think he is going to have a Wes impact they are setting the bar too high, especially right out of the box. He practiced this year but he didn't dominate people like Wes did. Not close.

Can G be the starter? Heck yea. But if Cooney finds his shot again, in games in particular, it will be tough not to play the shooter.

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[jordoo]

For those who believe that the 2G spot is Cooney's to lose:
Why would you think that? There was no other option last season and JB tried James and CJ at the 2 early on so he knew that backup guard minutes were going to be an issue. If MikeG was available do you really believe he wouldn't have gotten a chance?

Cooney had no competition and was used most of the season to buy minutes for Brandon and MCW in the first half of games. I think Cooney is going to be a fine college player and maybe by the end a very important player to the team like Andy was his last couple of years. BUT what we saw last year was a guy that was not yet ready. His D was good, he hustled and had a knack for tipping the ball. He was a shooter who couldn't shoot though. I'd also say that there more to his game offensively but its mostley predicated off of making shots which will help him greatly when he does start making shots and teams actually guard him. I'm not saying he won't be the starter or that its not a valid guess to think he's going to be but "his spot to lose" seems really silly to me with what we saw last season. I suspect if MikeG could have played he would have and the spot would be his to lose this year but that is of course my asumption.

 

[orangefog]

No comparison. G will be a good player but if both had been eligible to play the day they stepped on campus, Wes would have started, G would not. He could become a very good player but if people think he is going to have a Wes impact they are setting the bar too high, especially right out of the box. He practiced this year but he didn't dominate people like Wes did. Not close.

Can G be the starter? Heck yea. But if Cooney finds his shot again, in games in particular, it will be tough not to play the shooter.

Sent using my Commodore 64

No, I wasn't saying that MG is like Wes in that respect. My point, and it wasn't very well done, is that even though Cooney was active this year, does not mean that he is ahead of MG for the SG spot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

For those who believe that the 2G spot is Cooney's to lose:
Why would you think that? There was no other option last season and JB tried James and CJ at the 2 early on so he knew that backup guard minutes were going to be an issue. If MikeG was available do you really believe he wouldn't have gotten a chance?

Cooney had no competition and was used most of the season to buy minutes for Brandon and MCW in the first half of games. I think Cooney is going to be a fine college player and maybe by the end a very important player to the team like Andy was his last couple of years. BUT what we saw last year was a guy that was not yet ready. His D was good, he hustled and had a knack for tipping the ball. He was a shooter who couldn't shoot though. I'd also say that there more to his game offensively but its mostley predicated off of making shots which will help him greatly when he does start making shots and teams actually guard him. I'm not saying he won't be the starter or that its not a valid guess to think he's going to be but "his spot to lose" seems really silly to me with what we saw last season. I suspect if MikeG could have played he would have and the spot would be his to lose this year but that is of course my asumption.

Yeah, I have some cognitive dissonance on this. Cooney has a redshirt year and one year of limited minutes. Gbinije has one year of limited minutes and a redshirt year. Pretty even based on that. I give Gbinije the nod because he was rated higher coming out of highschool and is a little taller.

That's not super fair to Cooney though. I see Moqui's point that Cooney was better than expected at everything but shooting, which supposedly is his exceptional skill. That should be plenty of reason to believe that once the shooting falls in to place he's solid. In my head though it pretty much works against him. I don't have a good reason why.

End of the day, we're relying on unproven players. We need three out of Ennis, Gbinije, Cooney, Patterson and Johnson to be good if we want to enjoy the kind of success we're being spoiled by of late.

 

[orangefan13]

No comparison. G will be a good player but if both had been eligible to play the day they stepped on campus, Wes would have started, G would not. He could become a very good player but if people think he is going to have a Wes impact they are setting the bar too high, especially right out of the box. He practiced this year but he didn't dominate people like Wes did. Not close.

Can G be the starter? Heck yea. But if Cooney finds his shot again, in games in particular, it will be tough not to play the shooter.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Thanks, its good to hear a litmus for Gbinije.
With him being in that catagory he reminds me alittle of Dion fast explosive but erratic.
Once that jr year comes breakout soph's tend to go with their body strength and dribbling skill as Jr's or roundout their jumpshot if your really lucky both. He should get invited to a big boy camp playing for duke and cuse. Hope the coaches promote him so he can.

Also 100% agree Cooney is not the backdown type. He looks like the kind of SG who will be a starter. imo, no knock but he will be much more ready to be a starter then Triche was by the time he graduates because hes a sg who wants to score.

Also like your thought on Roberson starting. We need a forward to score off the bench, so
that makes sense to bring Grant off. Although I do think Rak could start PF because hes a JR and JB is going to juggle the depth and seniority even if it hurts us some early on. That will be nice fixing and valuing those 5 minutes later in the season though.

Also curious.
Do you think Roberson will have the motor of Grant? I know he and Grant both have the hustle and scrappyness, but man Grant can be all over the place.

Do you think BJ or Gbinije will have significantly enough better dribbling skill to play some sf with fair at the four, or will we not need it?

Do you think there is a chance Pattersons pullup could suprise and he could average around 6-10ppg for us in acc play for us this year? In patterson and cooneys case they want ot score. Some guys socre because they can in Pattersons case he wants to. Always a good sign for a SG.

 

[OttoMets]

For those who believe that the 2G spot is Cooney's to lose:
Why would you think that? There was no other option last season and JB tried James and CJ at the 2 early on so he knew that backup guard minutes were going to be an issue. If MikeG was available do you really believe he wouldn't have gotten a chance?

Cooney had no competition and was used most of the season to buy minutes for Brandon and MCW in the first half of games. I think Cooney is going to be a fine college player and maybe by the end a very important player to the team like Andy was his last couple of years. BUT what we saw last year was a guy that was not yet ready. His D was good, he hustled and had a knack for tipping the ball. He was a shooter who couldn't shoot though. I'd also say that there more to his game offensively but its mostley predicated off of making shots which will help him greatly when he does start making shots and teams actually guard him. I'm not saying he won't be the starter or that its not a valid guess to think he's going to be but "his spot to lose" seems really silly to me with what we saw last season. I suspect if MikeG could have played he would have and the spot would be his to lose this year but that is of course my asumption.

Defense. For Boeheim, it always comes back to defense (unless a kid can pour it in like Carmelo Anthony).

Gbinije absolutely would have gotten a shot this year (and your description of Cooney as the third guard by default and someone who bought minutes for the other guys is apt). And if Gbinije had had that opportunity, it's quite possible that it'd be his job to lose today. But Gbinije didn't (couldn't) get a shot and Cooney did.

Directly because of that, Cooney's defense is probably a lot better right now. If it's still a lot better at the beginning of November, I think Cooney's going to get the chance to start.

(This, of course, assumes that a.) Cooney can at least score and handle the ball a little bit and b.) Gbinije won't - right away - score and handle the ball at an all-league level. Because that could change things.)

 

[realorange]

For those who believe that the 2G spot is Cooney's to lose:
Why would you think that? There was no other option last season and JB tried James and CJ at the 2 early on so he knew that backup guard minutes were going to be an issue. If MikeG was available do you really believe he wouldn't have gotten a chance?

Cooney had no competition and was used most of the season to buy minutes for Brandon and MCW in the first half of games. I think Cooney is going to be a fine college player and maybe by the end a very important player to the team like Andy was his last couple of years. BUT what we saw last year was a guy that was not yet ready. His D was good, he hustled and had a knack for tipping the ball. He was a shooter who couldn't shoot though. I'd also say that there more to his game offensively but its mostley predicated off of making shots which will help him greatly when he does start making shots and teams actually guard him. I'm not saying he won't be the starter or that its not a valid guess to think he's going to be but "his spot to lose" seems really silly to me with what we saw last season. I suspect if MikeG could have played he would have and the spot would be his to lose this year but that is of course my asumption.

It's his spot to lose for precisely the reasons you have listed above. He is a returning player and has a years experience. He knows the zone and plays it well. He will likely improve his game over the summer. Why wouldn't you think it was his spot to lose.
Could MG take that spot? Sure, but many seem to expect him to be a starter when they have never seen him play. :noidea:

 

[jordoo]

It's his spot to lose for precisely the reasons you have listed above. He is a returning player and has a years experience. He knows the zone and plays it well. He will likely improve his game over the summer. Why wouldn't you think it was his spot to lose.
Could MG take that spot? Sure, but many seem to expect him to be a starter when they have never seen him play. :noidea:

I understand what you are saying but MikeG was here all season and we don't know what the coaches saw from him in practice. While Cooney we was the only 3rd guard struggled to play many minutes in important games and that's not to knock Conney who I like as a player especially if that shot starts falling.

 

[CusefanATL]

Again, it has nothing to do with Rak staying or leaving. Imo Rak is a 5. Not sure why you are having trouble understanding my opinion. You act like I am being coy about something.

Sent using my Commodore 64

you are being extremely coy, thats the perfect word for it.




"bees if you have roberson starting does that mean you think or know christmas is gone?" -goodroc

"They play different positions and their games are worlds different. Roberson is a 3/4. Rak is a 5." -bees

**that didnt answer the question**

"so rak isnt gone?" -atl



"Was that the question?" -bees (if not coy, then either a very forgetful (see above) or a remark)


**i reference the above post from goodroc to 'remind' you of the question.**



"Me predicting Roberson starts has nothing to do with Rak. " - bees


**again, hardly answers the question**



"Fair enough... but you have to easily be able to see what the other poster was getting at?
You are casually starting a freshman over a 2 year starter whose career has started with the most wins in school history (by 7 wins if i did my math right). *edit* sorry CJ, Dion and Fab started with 61 wins, rakeem has 64.
You using 1 sentence responses with something that would frankly be considered shocking would probably cause people to question the motives.
I can't be the only 1 who thinks that." -atl


maybe you really didnt understand the original question - but posters look to you as an insider. You posted something that was completely out of the blue very casually. Maybe it's just me, but you seemed to be overly vague and not answering what at least 2 posters were asking of you.

 

[orangefan13]

I think its JB's choice as to whats best for the team more then cooney gbinije earning it.

It might be better to have the better scorer or motor come off the bench. Who starts at PF also factors into the decision. Are you bringing a scoring forward off the bench or starting one.

We can bring BJ, Grant and Cooney three outside shooters off the bench.
Or we could bring Patterson, Gbinije, Dajaun, maybe Rak four isolation guys off the bench.
Or we can choose to swap starting Cooney or Gbinije based on matchups.

 

[rrlbees]

you are being extremely coy, thats the perfect word for it.




"bees if you have roberson starting does that mean you think or know christmas is gone?" -goodroc

"They play different positions and their games are worlds different. Roberson is a 3/4. Rak is a 5." -bees

**that didnt answer the question**

"so rak isnt gone?" -atl



"Was that the question?" -bees (if not coy, then either a very forgetful (see above) or a remark)


**i reference the above post from goodroc to 'remind' you of the question.**



"Me predicting Roberson starts has nothing to do with Rak. " - bees


**again, hardly answers the question**



"Fair enough... but you have to easily be able to see what the other poster was getting at?
You are casually starting a freshman over a 2 year starter whose career has started with the most wins in school history (by 7 wins if i did my math right). *edit* sorry CJ, Dion and Fab started with 61 wins, rakeem has 64.
You using 1 sentence responses with something that would frankly be considered shocking would probably cause people to question the motives.
I can't be the only 1 who thinks that." -atl


maybe you really didnt understand the original question - but posters look to you as an insider. You posted something that was completely out of the blue very casually. Maybe it's just me, but you seemed to be overly vague and not answering what at least 2 posters were asking of you.

Exactly. The original question from goodroc made an assumption and I explained me having roberson at the 4 had nothing to do with Rak. His question wasn't so much if Rak is staying or leaving but whether I had Roberson starting because I knew something. I replied...had nothing to do with Rak.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[moqui]

Yeah, I have some cognitive dissonance on this. Cooney has a redshirt year and one year of limited minutes. Gbinije has one year of limited minutes and a redshirt year. Pretty even based on that. .

except that G's one year of limited minutes was in a completely different system, both offensively and defensively. G has had one year to learn the system (while also making a subtle position change from wing forward to wing guard). Cooney has had two full years in the system and will be playing the same position he has his entire life.

this is really kind of an inane argument, though. JB has kind of refined his system such that he has 5 perimeter guys who get starter-level minutes, plus a nominal starter at C who is actually in a platoon situation. The sixth man - and sometimes the 7th man - is more a starter than the center is. At this stage of things you have to predict that both C and G are going to play. Best guess is that in "real games," C/E/G will all get between 22 and 32 mpg, a la J/T/W in 2011-12

 

[CusefanATL]

Exactly. The original question from goodroc made an assumption and I explained me having roberson at the 4 had nothing to do with Rak. His question wasn't so much if Rak is staying or leaving but whether I had Roberson starting because I knew something. I replied...had nothing to do with Rak.

Sent using my Commodore 64

lol. if you think that answered the question... then it was a very coy response to him at best.

do you mind answering my question?

do you think rak will be back next year?