Clemson Postgame

[IthacaMatt]

Disappointing to hear. If our NIL budget isn’t consistently this high we’re going to struggle even after hiring a new coach.

Well, there's a certain Felo ...

 

[DilemaCuse]

He kept him on staff because hes a really good recruiter. Yes and no, you know these guys have egos. After the medicore way jb ended his tenure, you think he wanted red having a lot of success?

If he was such a good recruiter, the team would have been better, he couldn't carry Hops jock in recruiting.. That description of Red as an assistant is not really accurate.

I think if I want anyone to have success, a former player of mine and assistant would be the perfect option, and would be thrilled. So JB named him Associate HC so he could take over, knowing that he couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag and seeing him fail would justify JBs greatness?
I find it hard to believe JBs character would be that bad.

And what does this matter whether JB wanted his successor to be successful? Who cares, he's gone out to pasture.

 

[AZOrange]

I wanted to add that I agree with you about Freeman’s return. Since the extent of his injury and rehab timeframe was kept secret it wasn’t right to publicly suggest he come back sooner.

But it was flat out weird to keep trotting him out for pregame warmups then not play him. That’s simply not a normal way to manage an injury return.

He should have been back for Stonehill if he could have played. And I thought he should have started vs Clemson too. We went into a 12-3 early hole while White played poorly.

Just another brick in the wall of how this program seems to be run badly these days.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a star player return from injury and not start but playe the majority of the game

 

[Scooch]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a star player return from injury and not start but playe the majority of the game

Same. When he didn’t start I figured he’d get something like 6-8 minutes each half as they eased him back. Instead he played 28 of the last 34 minutes of the game. It was nonsensical. But on brand for this program.

 

[AZOrange]

or watch a coach literally heat check his players by benching them…but not the 1 dude

 

[AZOrange]

Same. When he didn’t start I figured he’d get something like 6-8 minutes each half as they eased him back. Instead he played 28 of the last 34 minutes of the game. It was nonsensical. But on brand for this program.

He looked like a guy that could have come back a couple weeks ago

 

[oldpinepoint]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a star player return from injury and not start but playe the majority of the game

i was thinking to myself when Donnie came back they would start him off slow maybe 10-15 minutes a game against a few scrub teams and have a traditional rehab stint. Nope goes against clemson and plays 34 minutes or something. It wouldnt shock me if he couldnt finish off the season. Knock on wood i hope he does.

 

[Newhouser]

I don’t read every thread, but I haven’t seen anything of the such. To the contrary, I think nearly everyone believes we built a better roster in the off season, and nearly everyone believed going into the season, if he can’t get this team to the dance, the plug should be pulled.

The Freeman injury isn’t an excuse. He’s clearly the most talented player on the team. He was the most talented player on the court yesterday.

Holding off on final opinions until he returns is a reasonable perspective.

Though I never posted it, I thought holding Donnie out until Clemson was a mistake. I really wanted him to get an appearance in the past game to get the butterflies out of his system.

The staff was clearly given the resources needed to get a tournament level talent base. There has been some indications that this may have been a one-time infusion by a gigantic donor. There are no institutional shortcomings other than the fact that we don’t have the deep pool of huge donors that larger state schools have, nor are we a big east school that doesn’t have to allocate resources to FB.

In the new world order, we are inherently at a disadvantage. To deny that truth, shows a lack of understanding of today’s landscape.

Ironically, the thing we really miss is the only thing that JB was still good at in his final years -actual game management…and even that got weakened in the fog of nepotism.

But JB would ensure that the best scorers take shots. He was still running effective inbounds plays. Things that we just assumed would carry over.

They haven’t, and I’ll sound like a broken record, but Red’s inability to use the bench as a teaching tool has undermined his own authority.

The players all know who the best players are. They know who the good teammates are. They know how it should roll on the court. Coaches keep players in line, and the best players appreciate that. Red doesn’t appear to do that. Rotations seem preset, not an adjustment to game circumstances. Over time, that erodes the team.

People complained about JBs short leash, but the games matter. It’s not practice. It’s time to execute.

I watched the timeouts yesterday. Red huddles with his assistants and gathers information for about half of the timeout. It looks good. He spends the rest teaching. But it doesn’t result in effective play.

JB wouldn’t let assistants talk. Some timeouts he hardly spoke, but the results were acceptable.

Donnie cares. Love his fire, he wants to win badly. I don’t see that desire across the rest of the team- but that might be the new reality, as long as the check clears-I’m good.

At the end of the day, nobody can say Red didn’t get his chance. He did, and it appears it’s not working out.

I think there are some people that didn’t like the hire from day 1 and love pointing out his faults. I think that, barring a scandal, this was going to be a three year opportunity. I don’t think we’re going to see year 4.

Thank you for an excellent post. The one year infusion of funds means the next coach faces that hurdle too? Financing revenue sports is going to be a problem.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Thank you for an excellent post. The one year infusion of funds means the next coach faces that hurdle too? Financing revenue sports is going to be a problem.

You bring in a coach that can raise his own funds a la NC State with Will Wade.

 

[Scooch]

You bring in a coach that can raise his own funds a la NC State with Will Wade.

Yep. That's also Fran's approach, apparently.

Red flopped at fundraising and that's what led to the roster disaster last season. It's imperative that the next coach have a plan and resources to fund his teams at SU.

 

[RF2044]

Soo…yeah. It’s coaching.

Went my first game this year today. Got close enough to see/hear player interaction. Players looked lost on offense and didn’t play with purpose on that end of the court.

Just horrible the difference in the two teams out of timeouts. They abused our players with set plays. We on the other hand did not.

Lots of stuff people have pointed in this thread have been well stated.

I will defend the players a bit. It’s hard to play well without a game plan. And on the offensive end, it is clearly a rudderless ship.

The guy I’m going to defend is Nait. There is no plan to execute. It’s hard to be a point guard, when the other 4 players aren’t running sets or running them correctly. Theres no way he suddenly turned into a dunce. If you give him a good offense to run. He’ll execute it.

At the end of the game Donnie essentially said “give me the ball and get out of my way”. It almost worked.

If there’s no sets to run, it renders George, Kings and Betsy useless. They can’t create on their own. The only players we have that can are Donnie, and Kiyan, and I only trust one of those two. JJ really can’t either, and he’s way too sloppy with the ball to be given the leeway he has. I simply can’t trust a senior that at least once a game dribbles the ball out of bounds like a 3rd grader. I’m sure his teammates notice as well. You can say to reporters “he’s our leader” but I get the sense none of them truly believe it.

The defense is good enough to compete. The offense is inept. And I suspect Englested is responsible for the defense.

Next coach up..,

The red flags abounded from day one.

I started being concerned by the poor execution his first year [the Judah / Copeland season] on both sides of the ball. On defense, the switch from 100% zone to primarily man2man was bound to have speedbumps, but they converted to an NBA-esque switching system, with players who were incredibly ill-suited to execute this style of play, and the results were predictably poor. Looking back, it was almost like the staff watched some videos on this modern style of defense and tried to implement it, without having any idea how to teach / coach it, beyond basic concepts.

On offense, I expressed concern early about the lack of any semblance of cohesive offensive system. The offense seemed to be, let Judah pound the rock and create, and hope he gets a bucket or draws a foul. That was it. Even the inbound plays we used for both the sideline and the endline were pilfered from Boeheim -- it was like seeing a no trick pony get exposed. There was no plan B, because there wasn't even a plan A.

That first year, we had opposing players calling out what we were going to do. Some of the Clemson players did the same thing last game, in year 3. Why? Because we are predictable and easy to defend; opposing teams probably see what we do in film, and since we never make any adjustments they have an advantage trying to defend us. I was hoping that as a former point guard, Red would have an innate feel for coaching offense, but he doesn't.

Red is a really nice guy. He's an all-time program great player. But he doesn't have one-tenth of JB's coaching apptitude. He was a really poor hire at a time when the program was teetering on the precipice, and one that we couldn't afford.

And now, we've been set back even further.

I'll close this already too long post with the following: I think a significant portion of our fanbase is desensitized to the poor product on the court, because they only primarily watch Syracuse basketball. I watch a TON of college hoops -- maybe not entire games, but I pretty much watch college basketball 7 days a week, flipping through various games.

And it doesn't matter what level -- mid-major, small conference, sometimes 1AA or lower divsions occasionally [I also attend some D2 stuff locally, because I know one of the players on a local program] -- and no matter what the level, you'll see well-coached teams who get after it defensively and are able to run a functional offense.

Screens, movement without the ball, working the ball around to get a specific player a good shot, proper spacing, etc. None of which we see at Syracuse. It isnt rocket science -- it just needs to be taught. And none of our current staff excels at teaching the game, clearly. We don't do those things during games because the players aren't coached to do any of those things.

People used to accuse JB of just rolling the ball out and letting the players play. Well, in effect that is what we're seeing happen now, with ZERO hyperbole.

There is no gameplan.
There is no structure.
There is no foundational offensive concept, beyond high PNR and iso.
There are no plays.

And please note, I don't want some JV coach who needs to hold his fingers up calling micromanaged plays every single possession -- not what I'm asking for. But we need someone who knows what they are doing.

Again, turn on ESPN and watch games from other conferences, smaller conferences, and in the majority of games you'll see teams -- no matter what level of athletes their roster is comprised of -- who run a functional offense, who do the little things that help get good shots, play hard, and execute purposeful sets.

Other coaches run circles around our coaching staff. Did you see how easily Iowa State got baskets against us? It wasn't magic, it was movement without the ball, purposeful execution, and exploiting defensive lapses with smart passes. Even Clemson's coach Brownell ran circles around our staff -- and he has for years. He's not John Wooden, he's just competent.

Therein lies the difference.

 

[IthaCuse]

You bring in a coach that can raise his own funds a la NC State with Will Wade.

That's fascinating, the idea that a coach could personally raise millions regardless of the community itself. How does this work exactly? Do they have corporate donors who are a national brand and sponsor the coach who can "raise his own funds"? Or are there coaches who have rich friends that help them with this? I always assumed that NIL fundraising was purely based on the community around the program.

 

[Cusefan0307]

That's fascinating, the idea that a coach could personally raise millions regardless of the community itself. How does this work exactly? Do they have corporate donors who are a national brand and sponsor the coach who can "raise his own funds"? Or are there coaches who have rich friends that help them with this? I always assumed that NIL fundraising was purely based on the community around the program.

Fran has friends of Fran. Look at how AAU programs operate.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He looked like a guy that could have come back a couple weeks ago

When I saw him dribbling pre-game and making three after three, that's when I made that post about him letting down the team.

 

[Dcuse]

Same. When he didn’t start I figured he’d get something like 6-8 minutes each half as they eased him back. Instead he played 28 of the last 34 minutes of the game. It was nonsensical. But on brand for this program.

Why was it nonsensical? He was putting the team on his back in the 2nd half. Did you want to take him out?

 

[Nicknack]

I was never a big fan of Mintz, but he nearly single handily won us a handful of games, which got us to 20 for the season. He was really the perfect player for Red because he just did what he wanted to do with next to no team play.

 

[Cuseball]

The red flags abounded from day one.

I started being concerned by the poor execution his first year [the Judah / Copeland season] on both sides of the ball. On defense, the switch from 100% zone to primarily man2man was bound to have speedbumps, but they converted to an NBA-esque switching system, with players who were incredibly ill-suited to execute this style of play, and the results were predictably poor. Looking back, it was almost like the staff watched some videos on this modern style of defense and tried to implement it, without having any idea how to teach / coach it, beyond basic concepts.

On offense, I expressed concern early about the lack of any semblance of cohesive offensive system. The offense seemed to be, let Judah pound the rock and create, and hope he gets a bucket or draws a foul. That was it. Even the inbound plays we used for both the sideline and the endline were pilfered from Boeheim -- it was like seeing a no trick pony get exposed. There was no plan B, because there wasn't even a plan A.

That first year, we had opposing players calling out what we were going to do. Some of the Clemson players did the same thing last game. Why? Because we are predictable and easy to defend. I was hoping that as a former point guard, Red would have an innate feel for coaching offense, but he doesn't.

Red is a really nice guy. He's an all-time program great player. But he doesn't have one-tenth of JB's coaching apptitude. He was a really poor hire at a time when the program was teetering on the precipice, and one that we couldn't afford.

And now, we've been set back even further.

I'll close this already too long post with the following: I think a significant portion of our fanbase is desensitized to the poor product on the court, because they only primarily watch Syracuse basketball. I watch a TON of college hoops -- maybe not entire games, but I pretty much watch college basketball 7 days a week, flipping through various games.

And it doesn't matter what level -- mid-major, small conference, sometimes 1AA or lower divsions occasionally [I also attend some D2 stuff locally, because I know one of the players on a local program] -- and no matter what the level, you'll see well-coached teams who get after it defensively and are able to run a functional offense.

Screens, movement without the ball, working the ball around to get a specific player a good shot, proper spacing, etc. None of which we see at Syracuse. It isnt rocket science -- it just needs to be taught. And none of our current staff excels at teaching the game, clearly. We don't do those things during games because the players aren't coached to do any of those things.

People used to accuse JB of just rolling the ball out and letting the players play. Well, in effect that is what we're seeing happen now, with ZERO hyperbole.

There is no gameplan.
There is no structure.
There is no foundational offensive concept, beyond high PNR and iso.
There are no plays.

And please note, I don't want some JV coach who needs to call plays every single possession -- not what I'm asking for. But we need someone who knows what they are doing.

Again, turn on ESPN and watch games from other conferences, smaller conferences, and in the majority of games you'll see teams -- no matter what level of athletes their roster is comprised of -- who run a functional offense, who do the little things that help get good shots, play hard, and execute purposeful sets.

Other coaches run circles around our coaching staff. Did you see how easily Iowa State got baskets against us? It wasn't magic, it was movement without the ball. Even Clemson's coach Brownell ran circles around our staff -- and he has for years. He's not John Wooden, he's just competent.

Therein lies the difference.

This is spot on. I watch tons of college hoops too. No matter what game I watch I see teams passing the ball to create open shots. I see player movement and picks resulting in easy looks and freeing up shooters. Heck, I watch our local high school team and I see the same thing. I also see other coaches that seem to command the floor and are in control of the game. Autry seems like a fan watching and reacting without a plan.

I'll add to the comments exposing this from day one. Even when we won 19 games in his first season (beating Chaminade should not count as win #20), it was not a good season. Cuse was constantly blown out and quit instead of continuing to fight. That reflects very poorly on the coach, especially a new voice who is supposed to be energizing the team. We lost 9 games by more than 15 points! UNC beat us by about 40 and Wake by 30.

It was obvious before the Clemson game but watching the coaching mismatch hopefully drove this point home to Mr. Wildhack and all decision makers.

Cuse!

 

[RedtheGOB]

When I saw him dribbling pre-game and making three after three, that's when I made that post about him letting down the team.

Yes, I posted Vegas week the same. I really felt the same. People acting like he he will somehow break his femur or be done for his career by playing hurt seem like huge overreactions.

Even having him available to shoot free throws at the end of games or for a team to know he is on the bench suited up may have changed some outcomes. 3 big losses by a total of a handful of points.

 

[STAYME70]

Something I noticed in this game that I hadn’t seen in previous games was the assistant coaching staff being very vocal—yelling at players mid-game, sometimes at the same time as Autry. In my opinion, this is a bad look when multiple members of the coaching staff are simultaneously yelling at players.

a) You can’t hear anything in the Dome during the game. JJ even gestured to Autry that he couldn’t hear him.

b) The head coach should be the only one yelling at players during live play. Assistant coaches can chime in during timeouts, fouls, or other stoppages.

It doesn’t benefit the players when four coaches are yelling from the bench and no one can hear a single thing. It just makes our team look disorganized, poorly coached, and makes the staff appear desperate.

 

[phsyra]

Passing, dribbling, shot selection...all areas where you would expect a coach to be able to fix, but Red has no influence as its been a 3-year trainwreck in those areas.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, I posted Vegas week the same. I really felt the same. People acting like he he will somehow break his femur or be done for his career by playing hurt seem like huge overreactions.

Even having him available to shoot free throws at the end of games or for a team to know he is on the bench suited up may have changed some outcomes. 3 big losses by a total of a handful of points.

I THINK [this is not based upon actual info] that Donnie's injury is foot-related, which can be tricky to heal.

So they gave him as MUCH time as they could prior to the start of conference play, hoping to maximize his recovery. Not sure if it paid off, we probably needed him to be less rusty against Clemson.

But I think the goal on paper was to give him the maximum amount of time off so that he'd be as physically ready as possible for the back 9.

 

[Scooch]

Why was it nonsensical? He was putting the team on his back in the 2nd half. Did you want to take him out?

Apparently Donnie was clear to play as many minutes as necessary. Given that, why start a struggling White and get into a hole early in a very important game? Why put the pressure on Donnie of coming in 6 minutes into the game instead of getting that over with at the jump?

Like AZ Orange said, how often does that approach occur? I’d get it if he was limited and could only go for 15 minutes. But when a returning player has the green light to play all game? I can’t recall seeing it.

I also didn’t like that instead of running actual plays to get him into the flow early, as instead handed him the ball 18-23 feet from the hoop and essentially said “have at it, kid!”

I’m thrilled he played great in the second half. He did that all on his own. The approach was illogical IMHO. You’re free to disagree.

 

[RedtheGOB]

I THINK [this is not based upon actual info] that Donnie's injury is foot-related, which can be tricky to heal.

So they gave him as MUCH time as they could prior to the start of conference play, hoping to maximize his recovery. Not sure if it paid off, we probably needed him to be less rusty against Clemson.

But I think the goal on paper was to give him the maximum amount of time off so that he'd be as physically ready as possible for the back 9.

yea. tricky to heal to me says that you at least put your jersey on. God knows Autry loves to substitute. Couple minutes each game, hit some free throws maybe.

 

[sweetpea]

Please. We have 3 McD's AA's, an All ACC PG, and a 4 star scorer.

I'm just replying to Dr. Bill. His claim is not a talented enough roster and Red's coaching has nothing to do with it. Are any of those guys with the exception of Donnie with all the accolades playing like it? I blame Red. Please yourself.

 

[Dcuse]

Apparently Donnie was clear to play as many minutes as necessary. Given that, why start a struggling White and get into a hole early in a very important game? Why put the pressure on Donnie of coming in 6 minutes into the game instead of getting that over with at the jump?

Like AZ Orange said, how often does that approach occur? I’d get it if he was limited and could only go for 15 minutes. But when a returning player has the green light to play all game? I can’t recall seeing it.

I also didn’t like that instead of running actual plays to get him into the flow early, as instead handed him the ball 18-23 feet from the hoop and essentially said “have at it, kid!”

I’m thrilled he played great in the second half. He did that all on his own. The approach was illogical IMHO. You’re free to disagree.

I just don't understand the whole criticism of not starting him as if that definitely would have changed an outcome. I mean, he was 0-5 and struggled in the 1st half. I credit Red for sticking with him despite his early struggles. And he didn't sub for him when he started to find his footing and get hot as Autry has done with others.