SWC75
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Jim Lerch of the Manchild Show is having a friendly disagreement at this time. He insists that the ‘streak’ SU basketball is on is only a regular season streak and that if Syracuse beats Notre Dame tonight, that will clinch the continuation of the streak of winning seasons for Jim Boeheim (46) and Syracuse University (52). UCLA hold the all-time record with 54. I’ve told him that a basketball teams’ record is their full record, regular season + post season, which means that 16 wins won’t clinch the continuation of the streak.
He asked about a streak of non-losing seasons. That’s already 52 because we had an even (12-12) season in 1969-70. The record there is 60 by Kentucky. The NCAA record book, which once didn’t list either streak, (thus allowing for my argument that the record is unofficial so we can apply our ‘unofficial’ wins toward it), now lists both records but acknowledges our streak:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2022/D1.pdf (Page 9)
Obviously, we will consider the streak to matter. But what is necessary to continue it. I’ve bene following college basketball since Dave Bing’s senior year and every reference is Have ever heard to a team’s record includes the post season. Last year’s SU team was not a 15-8 team that then went 1-1 in the ACCT and then 2-1 in the NCAA tournament. It was an 18-10 team. There was a time when college football teams were known by their regular season record. That’s because the bowl games were considered ‘exhibition’ games or rewards for a great season and played no role in selection the natural champion. Syracuse didn’t have to beat Texas in the 1960 Cotton Bowl to win the 1959 national championship except to modern eyes. Once they started to have polls after the bowls, the bowl record started to get added to the regular season records and a few years ago the NCAA decided that bowl statistics should be added to regular season statistics. But the NCAA and the conference tournaments have always decided championships and the NIT was considered a national championship when it was founded and for years afterwards so the wins and losses teams accumulated in these tournaments have always been part of their record.
My formula for continuing the streak has always been to get to 17 wins in the regular season. Since 31 games are normally played, that gives you a three-game cushion going into the post season, which would consist, at most of two single-elimination tournaments and thus at most two further losses. With a 16-15 record you could win up 16-16 with a loss in the first round of the ACCT, turning it into a non-losing season streak.
I based that on the assumption that a winning season was needed to get to any tournament beyond the ACCT. I’ve just checked and that is no longer true:
www.rookieroad.com
There’s also:
The College Basketball Invitational: College Basketball Invitational - Wikipedia
The Basketball Classic: The Basketball Classic - Wikipedia
None of them appear to require a team to have a winning record. They talk about the best 32 teams available, but the emphasis appears to be on who will get the highest TV ratings. That could certainly be us. The NIT begins with on-campus games and the other two are all on-campus games.
I think I’ll ask Jim Boeheim if we would go to any of these other tournaments. We could get a winning record even if we don’t get to 17 or 16 regular season wins in these tournaments. But would we go to them?
If we went 16-15, we could lose in the first round of the ACCT and go to those tournaments and win a couple and have a winning record- or lose in the first round and wind up a loser. If we went 17-14, we’re OK. If we went 15-16 and lost in the first round of the ACCT, would we still have a chance to go to these other tournaments? And how valid would we consider that record to be? Would the ‘streak’ continue to be meaningful?
He asked about a streak of non-losing seasons. That’s already 52 because we had an even (12-12) season in 1969-70. The record there is 60 by Kentucky. The NCAA record book, which once didn’t list either streak, (thus allowing for my argument that the record is unofficial so we can apply our ‘unofficial’ wins toward it), now lists both records but acknowledges our streak:
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2022/D1.pdf (Page 9)
Obviously, we will consider the streak to matter. But what is necessary to continue it. I’ve bene following college basketball since Dave Bing’s senior year and every reference is Have ever heard to a team’s record includes the post season. Last year’s SU team was not a 15-8 team that then went 1-1 in the ACCT and then 2-1 in the NCAA tournament. It was an 18-10 team. There was a time when college football teams were known by their regular season record. That’s because the bowl games were considered ‘exhibition’ games or rewards for a great season and played no role in selection the natural champion. Syracuse didn’t have to beat Texas in the 1960 Cotton Bowl to win the 1959 national championship except to modern eyes. Once they started to have polls after the bowls, the bowl record started to get added to the regular season records and a few years ago the NCAA decided that bowl statistics should be added to regular season statistics. But the NCAA and the conference tournaments have always decided championships and the NIT was considered a national championship when it was founded and for years afterwards so the wins and losses teams accumulated in these tournaments have always been part of their record.
My formula for continuing the streak has always been to get to 17 wins in the regular season. Since 31 games are normally played, that gives you a three-game cushion going into the post season, which would consist, at most of two single-elimination tournaments and thus at most two further losses. With a 16-15 record you could win up 16-16 with a loss in the first round of the ACCT, turning it into a non-losing season streak.
I based that on the assumption that a winning season was needed to get to any tournament beyond the ACCT. I’ve just checked and that is no longer true:
What Is The NIT Bracket (National Invitation Tournament)?
The College Basketball Invitational: College Basketball Invitational - Wikipedia
The Basketball Classic: The Basketball Classic - Wikipedia
None of them appear to require a team to have a winning record. They talk about the best 32 teams available, but the emphasis appears to be on who will get the highest TV ratings. That could certainly be us. The NIT begins with on-campus games and the other two are all on-campus games.
I think I’ll ask Jim Boeheim if we would go to any of these other tournaments. We could get a winning record even if we don’t get to 17 or 16 regular season wins in these tournaments. But would we go to them?
If we went 16-15, we could lose in the first round of the ACCT and go to those tournaments and win a couple and have a winning record- or lose in the first round and wind up a loser. If we went 17-14, we’re OK. If we went 15-16 and lost in the first round of the ACCT, would we still have a chance to go to these other tournaments? And how valid would we consider that record to be? Would the ‘streak’ continue to be meaningful?
