closing seconds of regulation in BC game

[swish7]

When Rak takes that shot that I and JB ripped, Grant was wide open. Not news here I know. Many here mentioned that; I did not notice it at first.

The thing that I hadn't noticed was that as Rak's shot goes up, Grant is in perfect rebounding position. Grant makes a motion to box out a BC guard that is crashing from the top of the key. But he gets real small. He doesn't stay big, push him back or clear space. Things that you're taught in HS. He doesn't jump for the rebound either. The ball falls dead just on his side of the rim. It would have been an easy put back. Instead, by that time, the little BC guard had pushed Grant all the way under the backboard, and out of the play.

The lack of fundamentals "we" display sometimes is shocking. It's a reason why, despite superior athleticism, inferior teams hang with us. It makes the game harder than it needs to be.

 

[Marsh01]

When Rak takes that shot that I and JB ripped, Grant was wide open. Not news here I know. Many here mentioned that; I did not notice it at first. The thing that I hadn't noticed was that as Rak's shot goes up, Grant is in perfect rebounding position. Grant makes a motion to box out a BC guard that is crashing from the top of the key. But he gets real small. He doesn't stay big, push him back or clear space. Things that you're taught in HS. He doesn't jump for the rebound either. The ball falls dead just on his side of the rim. It would have been an easy put back. Instead, by that time, the little BC guard had pushed Grant all the way under the backboard, and out of the play. The lack of fundamentals "we" display sometimes is shocking. It's a reason why, despite superior athleticism, inferior teams hang with us. It makes the game harder than it needs to be.

Dude spot on. I was at the game so i didnt see it at first but i watched that replay 20 times and dammit how the hell did he not get that rebound? He was right there and just let himself get pinned under the hoop. Very surprised to watch it

 

[anomander]

I'm telling you Boheim doesn't stress "boxing out". If you watch Syracuse it is much like the NBA. The athletes go up and get the ball. Boxing out was taught in HS, or levels where you don't have explosive athletes.

 

[2-3zone]

JB talked about that play in detail last night on his radio show

1.) He wants Rock to go towards the basket and not fade away
2.) Jerami should have been there for a tip in but he allowed the BC defender to push him out of position

 

[anomander]

The more I looked at the play the more i thought if he passed the ball to Jerami it would have been a game winning dunk

 

[swish7]

Dude spot on. I was at the game so i didnt see it at first but i watched that replay 20 times and dammit how the hell did he not get that rebound? He was right there and just let himself get pinned under the hoop. Very surprised to watch it

I just watched this ESPN special called Crunch Time on my DVR. It played the final minutes of each game from Duke I till now. I rewatched the Rak shot, frame by frame, about 4 times. Holy cow does that little guard just push Grant right out of the action. I'm guessing Grant expected the shot to go in and gave up on the play.

I also noticed for the 1st time how the BC goon had his arms hooked around rak when he caught the ball. The ref was right there and didn't even whistle-flinch. I don't know what is a foul in basketball anymore.

Rak's shot wasn't great IMO, but after a few rewatches, his form wasn't as bad as it initially seemed. It would have been interesting to see what he could have accomplished with 1 pump fake, and/or a wrap-around pass to Grant. However, the guard might have gotten to Grant by then. Unbelievably depressing game.

 

[Marsh01]

I just watched this ESPN special called Crunch Time on my DVR. It played the final minutes of each game from Duke I till now. I rewatched the Rak shot, frame by frame, about 4 times. Holy cow does that little guard just push Grant right out of the action. I'm guessing Grant expected the shot to go in and gave up on the play. I also noticed for the 1st time how the BC goon had his arms hooked around rak when he caught the ball. The ref was right there and didn't even whistle-flinch. I don't know what is a foul in basketball anymore. Rak's shot wasn't great IMO, but after a few rewatches, his form wasn't as bad as it initially seemed. It would have been interesting to see what he could have accomplished with 1 pump fake, and/or a wrap-around pass to Grant. However, the guard might have gotten to Grant by then. Unbelievably depressing game.

He had about a second more than i thought he initially had. Had he turned towards where grant was he would have had an easy dump down to him. Problem was is he turned to his left which was to obviously shoot it with his right hand and the pass would have been more difficult.

 

[CorduroyG]

I got no problem with the shot. Clock was running down, he probably wasn't sure exactly how much time he had. Got a good look it just rolled off. To me the most important thing in those end of game situations is to get a shot off. So many times you see teams turn it over or do something stupid and not get a shot off. If rak tries to pass maybe grant fumbles it out of bounds. Or if he tries an up and under maybe he travels. I'll take my chances with that shot every time.

 

[moqui]

if SU forwards had a fraction of the interior passing that a typical Pitt team has, we'd not only be undefeated, we'd be blowing everyone out

 

[Madbiker]

When Rak takes that shot that I and JB ripped, Grant was wide open. Not news here I know. Many here mentioned that; I did not notice it at first.

The thing that I hadn't noticed was that as Rak's shot goes up, Grant is in perfect rebounding position. Grant makes a motion to box out a BC guard that is crashing from the top of the key. But he gets real small. He doesn't stay big, push him back or clear space. Things that you're taught in HS. He doesn't jump for the rebound either. The ball falls dead just on his side of the rim. It would have been an easy put back. Instead, by that time, the little BC guard had pushed Grant all the way under the backboard, and out of the play.

The lack of fundamentals "we" display sometimes is shocking. It's a reason why, despite superior athleticism, inferior teams hang with us. It makes the game harder than it needs to be.

Perfect example of why Jerami will be back next year and not in the NBA. He needs to get a lot stronger, dude spends half the game on the floor after getting knocked over.

 

[Coach Orange]

Holy cow does that little guard just push Grant right out of the action. I'm guessing Grant expected the shot to go in and gave up on the play.

After viewing the play again, I think Ennis made a solid play splitting the trap and passing the ball deep in the paint to Christmas. Passing to Grant would have been more difficult in that spot, and it probably results in a contested shot. I say this because the player that was guarding Christmas was really Grant's defender, who would have rotated back to him on the pass.

That said, if Grant did indeed give up on the play, he would be committing a basketball sin by not executing a fundamental tactical skill--players should never assume a make. He definitely gets buried under the hoop, in part because he sets up to far under the hoop for rebounding position. His lack of strength may also be to blame to some extent.

As to your other points in the post--Cowtown might be able to speak to the lack of a foul call on that possession. The cliche answer would be to say that the officials "let the players decide the game." However, as a referee, Cow may have a better explanation than that.

Also, Christmas sealed the defender well, and his shot was pretty solid given that he has never really been in that spot before during his time here. Six or seven times out of 10, that shot falls for him. Unfortunately, that was one of the 3-4 times it didn't.

Nevertheless, I think Coach B is right. Christmas had a size advantage, but fading away negates that some. In truth, all of our players need to take the ball to the hoop stronger on their drives--we miss a lot of bunnies by not going directly at the cylinder. I agree that an up-and-under fake would really have helped there. Christmas appears to rush a bit, though, presumably due to his lack of experience being forced to take the last shot. Hopefully, he learns from this experience.

 

[bballbeadle]

I'm beginning to wonder, did they lose that game half-consciously on purpose?? So weird! No, of course not, I'm an idiot. Ignore me! Why would they do that? To get it over with! That's ridiculous. I'm an idiot. Ignore me!

This is my mind without drugs. Sad.

 

[jdubs30]

Jerami thought it was going in

 

[AZOrange]

I'm beginning to wonder, did they lose that game half-consciously on purpose?? So weird! No, of course not, I'm an idiot. Ignore me! Why would they do that? To get it over with! That's ridiculous. I'm an idiot. Ignore me!

This is my mind without drugs. Sad.

You've become one of my favorIte posters

 

[STEVEHOLT]

So you ..while watching on TV...did not notice grant was wide open ..until you rewatched it...yet you rip rack for the shot...

you think its easier for him to see that grant is wide open real time with Division one size atheletes hanging on him?

 

[orangehomer]

college basketball is the only major sport where the rules and officiating favor the less athletic players. that is why the sport has a problem. the guard pushes grant all he wants, but if grant touches the guard the kid will fall down and its a foul on grant. college basketball is the only sport where the refs decide which players are "playing harder" and thusly award them with calls. it doesn't happen in the nba. you guys act like, oh grant didn't play hard enough, it's not that simple, and it is exhausting to me that people still do not understand college refs.

 

[Cowtown]

After viewing the play again, I think Ennis made a solid play splitting the trap and passing the ball deep in the paint to Christmas. Passing to Grant would have been more difficult in that spot, and it probably results in a contested shot. I say this because the player that was guarding Christmas was really Grant's defender, who would have rotated back to him on the pass.

That said, if Grant did indeed give up on the play, he would be committing a basketball sin by not executing a fundamental tactical skill--players should never assume a make. He definitely gets buried under the hoop, in part because he sets up to far under the hoop for rebounding position. His lack of strength may also be to blame to some extent.

As to your other points in the post--Cowtown might be able to speak to the lack of a foul call on that possession. The cliche answer would be to say that the officials "let the players decide the game." However, as a referee, Cow may have a better explanation than that.

Also, Christmas sealed the defender well, and his shot was pretty solid given that he has never really been in that spot before during his time here. Six or seven times out of 10, that shot falls for him. Unfortunately, that was one of the 3-4 times it didn't.

Nevertheless, I think Coach B is right. Christmas had a size advantage, but fading away negates that some. In truth, all of our players need to take the ball to the hoop stronger on their drives--we miss a lot of bunnies by not going directly at the cylinder. I agree that an up-and-under fake would really have helped there. Christmas appears to rush a bit, though, presumably due to his lack of experience being forced to take the last shot. Hopefully, he learns from this experience.

I was in an alcohol induced blur by that time, I was so freaking depressed. I haven't seen a replay. In a 3 man system, lead is looking at the ball handler/shooter in the lane on a play like that. I don't know where middle was, trail is watching the ball/shot clock. And hell, sometimes we just miss calls.

 

[CaptainJ]

I'm beginning to wonder, did they lose that game half-consciously on purpose?? So weird! No, of course not, I'm an idiot. Ignore me! Why would they do that? To get it over with! That's ridiculous. I'm an idiot. Ignore me!

This is my mind without drugs. Sad.

Well it's friday night, although I realize not much time left in your zone, otherwise I'd say you named the remedy!

 

[OrangeDW]

When Rak takes that shot that I and JB ripped, Grant was wide open. Not news here I know. Many here mentioned that; I did not notice it at first.

The thing that I hadn't noticed was that as Rak's shot goes up, Grant is in perfect rebounding position. Grant makes a motion to box out a BC guard that is crashing from the top of the key. But he gets real small. He doesn't stay big, push him back or clear space. Things that you're taught in HS. He doesn't jump for the rebound either. The ball falls dead just on his side of the rim. It would have been an easy put back. Instead, by that time, the little BC guard had pushed Grant all the way under the backboard, and out of the play.

The lack of fundamentals "we" display sometimes is shocking. It's a reason why, despite superior athleticism, inferior teams hang with us. It makes the game harder than it needs to be.

His Uncle was a fundamentally sound NBA Power forward and his dad was a good player and NBA forward. No excuse to not know how to use his body. Stop worrying about jumping high and get tough.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Wait...so you're saying our forwards dont box out?

Join the party, I've been here for a few months now. We get by with ball instinct and sheer athleticism.

There's a reason guys like Zanna put on big rebounding performances. He is physical, yes, but he puts a body on people.

 

[CU44SE]

This isn't a new issue, it has been an issue for the last couple years. Everyone try's to use there athleticism instead of fundamentals. If we used fundamentals on top of our athleticism we would be extremely dangerous. The last guy I remember boxing out was Rick Jackson, guy just gobbled up rebounds. It was like hungry hungry hippo.

 

[Millhouse]

The more I looked at the play the more i thought if he passed the ball to Jerami it would have been a game winning dunk

Christmas is a good passer with good vision, I bet he was worried about time. Not much experience in that spot

 

[swish7]

So you ..while watching on TV...did not notice grant was wide open ..until you rewatched it...yet you rip rack for the shot...you think its easier for him to see that grant is wide open real time with Division one size atheletes hanging on him?

In the posts which I am referring to, I critized Rak for not attacking the rim, and fading away from the shot. I did not criticize him for taking a shot. I criticized him for taking the wrong type of shot. As did JB.

I did not criticize him for not seeing Grant, which I errr rather openly admitted to.

And yeah, if Rak is playing in DI, he is going to have "DI sized athletes hanging on him". Just like my kid had 1st graders hanging on him today.

 

[swish7]

This isn't a new issue, it has been an issue for the last couple years. Everyone try's to use there athleticism instead of fundamentals. If we used fundamentals on top of our athleticism we would be extremely dangerous. The last guy I remember boxing out was Rick Jackson, guy just gobbled up rebounds. It was like hungry hungry hippo.

And as I recall Rick Jackson learned on the job, and very much got better after year 1. Who taught him? Because, we need more of that, big men that learn to box, and attack the rim, as the season and seasons progress.