Coach Search Options after Autry

[IthacaBarrel]

There are a lot of coaches who can resurrect the program.

Why do we believe there is just one?

If he changes his mind about the NIL money he needs bc a 3rd party offers more, what else is he gonna change his mind about?

These aren't admirable characteristics in my worldview.

You make your "demands or financial expectations" throughout the interview process employer meets those demands or requests and then you come back again? that's not a good look. I agree. Some call it leverage others would call it being a pig. There is value in the open position, if prospective employees don't value it highly enough then move on. In the real world, this is what people do who are playing games, always looking for new jobs, change jobs every year or two, and constantly asking for more and you can see them from a mile away

 

[jsshap]

I don't agree. Happens all the time, in everyday life.

People get offered jobs, and then ask for more money all the time. It's called negotiation.

And if the person has leverage, or multiple offers, then they have nothing to lose by asking.

If the employer has psychological commitment to hiring that person, then it comes down to whether the counter-offer is reasonable or not. If it is, then they make a deal.

What is described - an ask, an agreement and then a new ask - most certainly does NOT happen all the time

 

[RF2044]

What is described - an ask, an agreement and then a new ask - most certainly does NOT happen all the time.

Sure it does -- before a deal is finalized.

The [alleged] deal behind the scenes is NOT a contract. Both sides often jockey back and forth about terms and conditions before the final arrangement is solidified in print.

If a coach agreed to a contract, and then tried to change the arrangement, that would be different. This is not at that stage yet, which is why its much ado about nothing.

 

[sufan59]

 

[orlandoorange]

Correction: he asked for a number that was agreed to in priniciple prior, and now his agent is asking for a higher number using the leverage of a second offer from another school. That's what happens when you have options -- smart negotiations.

The question is whether or not our athletic department -- with all of the current political in-fighting -- is going to drop the ball this close to the finish line. Not whether we had the resources to meet the initial demand in the first place, or even whether we have the $$$ to meet the second demand.

Right now, things are a shiz show behind-the-scenes due to politics. Resources are not a systemic problem, but when you have significant donors fighting one another, THAT'S the problem.

If I was an agent I'd employee a bot farm to get rumors swirling. Hmm, I wonder if anyone's doing that here?

 

[rrlbees]

You make your "demands or financial expectations" throughout the interview process employer meets those demands or requests and then you come back again? that's not a good look. I agree. Some call it leverage others would call it being a pig. There is value in the open position, if prospective employees don't value it highly enough then move on. In the real world, this is what people do who are playing games, always looking for new jobs, change jobs every year or two, and constantly asking for more and you can see them from a mile away

i remember a player doing that. think his name was jesse edwards. boy were people pissed here.

 

[orangepassion]

I don’t think he could keep up in that system. Everyone crashes the offensive boards. Donnie just stands around and watches. He’s a miracle worker if he can get Freeman to play defense and crash the offensive boards.

He helped turn a bad defender into the AAC Defensive player of the Year

 

[orange79]

What is described - an ask, an agreement and then a new ask - most certainly does NOT happen all the time

At high levels in both sports and industry, it most definitely does. It depends on your definition of "all the time".

 

[Fly Rodder]

And nobody talks about that -- the bargain before was that revenue sports subsidized a lot of good and scholarships in other sports.

It also subsidized a lot of high salaries for adminstrators, VPs, and other execs. Higher-ed accounting by itself is fraught with inflated costs and dubious "needs". Add in a huge pot of professional sports revenue and things got really crazy for the last 30-40 years.

 

[RedtheGOB]

You make your "demands or financial expectations" throughout the interview process employer meets those demands or requests and then you come back again? that's not a good look. I agree. Some call it leverage others would call it being a pig. There is value in the open position, if prospective employees don't value it highly enough then move on. In the real world, this is what people do who are playing games, always looking for new jobs, change jobs every year or two, and constantly asking for more and you can see them from a mile away

You mean successful people? My dad worked at the same company for 40 years, I can assure you that the company did not care and he did not make money and they gave him a clock at retirement.

It's called a negotiation, and honestly it helps us too. If BH keeps asking for more and squeezes it out of school and donors then great, that means better players and coaches for us. Did we not learn from Autry that when he no idea what to even ask for over the years when it came to NIL and Staff. BH has a larger and better staff at USF that Autry would've ever dreamed about. Yet you sit here saying it's playing games ha. I think you're living in a dream world expecting otherwise.

 

[orangepassion]

Those are solid candidates (don't know about Larranaga). Martelli had basically the exact record as Odom had at VCU the year before after losing much of that team, including the conference player of the year.

 

[Fly Rodder]

In the real world, this is what people do who are playing games, always looking for new jobs, change jobs every year or two, and constantly asking for more and you can see them from a mile away

I worked at one firm for 16 years and they took advantage of that. I left for another and got a ~60% pay increase. The lesson I learned is that I should have left a long time ago.

 

[jsshap]

Sure it does -- before a deal is finalized.

The [alleged] deal behind the scenes is NOT a contract. Both sides often jockey back and forth about terms and conditions before the final arrangement is solidified in print.

If a coach agreed to a contract, and then tried to change the arrangement, that would be different. This is not at that stage yet, which is why its much ado about nothing.

No interest in a debate and I understand what a contract is but I was reacting to what you said happens all the time / demand then agreement and then higher demand. It happens sure, but it's absolutely not common and if the potential employee does that they risk losing credibility. No clue if that happened here but it's not debatable that that does not happen all the time. It doesn't.

 

[phil77]

At high levels in both sports and industry, it most definitely does. It depends on your definition of "all the time".

People are still stuck in the old ways of doing things, just like our program as a whole. This is the way it all works now. Until the deal is finalized with pen to paper, everything is a negotiation. Who says he is trying to get money for salary this time around? Could be more secure NIL instead of just words? Could be more NIL? Could be an increase in staff salary? etc. There are lots of things to negotiate that doesn't involve just his salary.

 

[sufan59]

Those are solid candidates (don't know about Larranaga). Martelli had basically the exact record as Odom had at VCU after losing much of that team, including the conference player of the year.

I mean this seriously and not biased because I want Syracuse getting Hodgson, but Martelli is a much better fit for Providence working his way up via Basketball first schools.

 

[pearl31]

feel like it (negotiating process) really depends on who has the upper hand or advantage, therfor what demands/new demands can be made - it would apoear BH has that upper hand on SU, perhaps BB/others now trying to "even" that

 

[RF2044]

No interest in a debate and I understand what a contract is but I was reacting to what you said happens all the time / demand then agreement and then higher demand. It happens sure, but it's absolutely not common and if the potential employee does that they risk losing credibility. No clue if that happened here but it's not debatable that that does not happen all the time. It doesn't.

It DOES happen all the time. A company offers a job, the candidate makes a counter-proposal for a bit more money [or additional vacation time, or a deferred starting time, or a bigger bonus, or additional tuition assistance, or any other benefit the candidate asks for from the company].

Why would the candidate risk losing credibility? It is different making those requests PRIOR to an agreement being formalized and agreed upon, versus when it is being negotiated.

Are there instances where the candidate just takes the first offer? Sure -- but it is ABSOLUTELY common for the candidate to negotiate.

If a contract is in place, that is different. But while it is being agreed to? That's called negotiation.

And jsshap, I know you are a lawyer, so if it came off above as me questioning your knowlege of contracts, that was not intended.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Heard Martelli Jr on Dusty and Danny this am.

Some good coach speak from him, could be a good fallback option, that maybe we should gauge interest

If he beats UNC, his stock will rise as well

 

[Fly Rodder]

I'm curious if there are any other names coming up for the Syracuse job search other than Gerry and BH. Because if those are the two choices, it's simultaneously a mismatch and disappointing.

Edited to shift words to be more grammatically correct.

 

[Lame-0]

Counterpoint… even with all the money these dudes are making, the schools are making immense profits off of them. You could argue they are underpaid, especially on the football side.

The universities will absolutely need to start rev sharing. The only way this doesn’t continue to turn into MLB or la liga is with some sort of salary cap.

Isn't the sharing of TV money, bowl payouts and NCAA tournament payments a form of revenue sharing?

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I worked at one firm for 16 years and they took advantage of that. I left for another and got a ~60% pay increase. The lesson I learned is that I should have left a long time ago.

That's not the lesson here

 

[Cusefan0307]

He helped turn a bad defender into the AAC Defensive player of the Year

Ehhh that's not true. Nelson's defensive metrics have been great his entire career. He has a great motor. I am not sure Donnie does. That's his biggest weakness.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I'm not trying to call anyone out for lying/spreading misinformation but that $14 mil number for Providence is just incorrect. I'm not sure where that is coming from. Maybe BH's agent is throwing that around to see how high Syracuse can get. That's my gut feeling.

You have to believe everyone’s NIL numbers may go up this year. There’s going to be a lot of competition for the better players. It might be wise to try and keep your better players and then try to pick and choose good pieces.

 

[TexanMark]

Sadly Cuse Basketball is irrelevant right now. So called experts think this is an average job. They think Providence leads

 

[Cusefan0307]

Sadly Cuse Basketball is irrelevant right now. So called experts think this is an average job. They think Providence leads

That’s been discussed the last 60 pages and why it may or may not be true.