Coastal or Atlantic???

[anomander]

Obviously the 2 divisions are quite different, and while there is nothing we can do about it, we can still discuss which division would be better for us. Would you rather be in the Atlantic that has FSU, Clemson, and Louisville basically guaranteeing we won't finish better then 3rd most years, or would you rather be in the Coastal where we would have a better chance at winning the division, but arguably top to bottom is more difficult?

Personally I prefer where we are now. Not only do we get to sell recruits on playing FSU, and Clemson each year, but as of right now we have programs like WF, NCST, and BC, who are all going through a rebuild to some extent. Plus it's a win win when going up against FSU, and Clemson. We aren't expected to win so any upset would be huge. We just have to avoid embarrassing blow outs like last year.

Now if we were in the Coastal there really aren't any gimme's. Plus you don't get that marquee FSU, or Clemson game. I mean that's the reason for wanting to play in the ACC right? While Miami, and VT are respectable programs, kids aren't signing up to go play them every year.

Either way I think arguments could be make for both, but I like where we are now.

 

[orange_in_VA]

I like where we are at, and love the possibility for some of these games to become rivalries. Love it. We would probably get more fans at away games in the coastal due to proximity. I love selling playing these teams to kids, especially the southern kids. Go big or go home.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Like the Atlantic, but hope the schedule changes so we see the Coastal teams more frequently. Definitely want to have FSU on the schedule each year for the recruiting/visibility

 

[Pyle]

**K UL
Clemson was really good last year and I don't look forward to playing them in death valley but they aren't infallible by any means.
FSU is riding the Winston wave right now, whether than can parlay this into a decade of success has yet to be seen. We came pretty close to knocking them out the last time they came in the Dome under P.

Success comes and goes, I'm not convinced our ceiling is 3rd every year but this is def thedivision I'd rather be in. I miss playing Miami and VT but love having BC back on the schedule.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Great question. I've been going back and forth on this but ultimately the coastal would be the best option for the program. On a personal level, I'm excited to be able to alternate Clemson and Louisville road trips but I'm worried that with the elite level talent that FSU and Clemson pull in, we may never have a shot at a division title. In the Coastal, we'd have a decent chance the next couple years. On the negative side, I would be worried about playing Georgia Tech every year.

 

[Pyle]

Great question. I've been going back and forth on this but ultimately the coastal would be the best option for the program. On a personal level, I'm excited to be able to alternate Clemson and Louisville road trips but I'm worried that with the elite level talent that FSU and Clemson pull in, we may never have a shot at a division title. In the Coastal, we'd have a decent chance the next couple years. On the negative side, I would be worried about playing Georgia Tech every year.

Look at who the power teams were 5-10 years ago. VT and GT were eating up the conference. VT has 5 of the last 10 ACC championships. The tide was shifted recently and FSU/Clemson own the last 3 but one should expect the Coastal to rebound.

 

[orangepassion]

To me, Coastal is a no-brainer. Much easier path to a division title, while still having the ability to play FSU and clemson occasionally. Wins help recruiting more than anything.

 

[SU2NASA]

Get rid of the divisions completely.

 

[NashvilleOrange]

Look at who the power teams were 5-10 years ago. VT and GT were eating up the conference. VT has 5 of the last 10 ACC championships. The tide was shifted recently and FSU/Clemson own the last 3 but one should expect the Coastal to rebound.

Good point. It does change in cycles but Va Tech was never recruiting at the level that Clemson and FSU are now. That makes it harder; that being said, I can see UNC and Miami reaching that level of recruiting too.

 

[Scooch]

On the one hand, it's nice having premium conference opponents back in our life. We went 10 years without that. So being in a division with FSU and Clemson is cool from that perspective.

On the other hand, every opponent I want to play regularly due to history and geography (aside from BC) is in the Coastal: Miami, VaTech, UNC, UVA, GaTech and Pitt.

So yeah, I know we've been in beggars-can't-be-choosers mode given our past conference affiliation, but give me the Coastal.

 

[texascpa]

We're 3 and 3 against UL in the last 6 years, including a win in GRob's last year. Explain to me why I should be nervous about UL.

 

[Crusty]

Agree with texascpa - UL is no really an elite program and we have no reason to fear them. Also agree with Pyle's observations.

I think we are fine where we are and I think the competition will make us better. The program is on the rise and I think it will keep improving. FSU is going to be blasted with sanctions sooner or later and Clemson always has ups and downs. We will do OK over time.

I also believe that the ACC is a conference on the rise and the B1G's cable plans are going the way of the do do bird. The ACC has the population footprint and a better product. In the long run we win.

 

[OrangePA]

Obviously the 2 divisions are quite different, and while there is nothing we can do about it, we can still discuss which division would be better for us. Would you rather be in the Atlantic that has FSU, Clemson, and Louisville basically guaranteeing we won't finish better then 3rd most years, or would you rather be in the Coastal where we would have a better chance at winning the division, but arguably top to bottom is more difficult?

Personally I prefer where we are now. Not only do we get to sell recruits on playing FSU, and Clemson each year, but as of right now we have programs like WF, NCST, and BC, who are all going through a rebuild to some extent. Plus it's a win win when going up against FSU, and Clemson. We aren't expected to win so any upset would be huge. We just have to avoid embarrassing blow outs like last year.

Now if we were in the Coastal there really aren't any gimme's. Plus you don't get that marquee FSU, or Clemson game. I mean that's the reason for wanting to play in the ACC right? While Miami, and VT are respectable programs, kids aren't signing up to go play them every year.

Either way I think arguments could be make for both, but I like where we are now.

It's close.

I would have no problem at all playing Miami and Va Tech every years.

But, I think I want to stay where we are - I want to see FSU, Clemson and Louisville on a regular basis.

And I expect that we will compete with those teams down the road.

 

[Alsacs]

We have more history with VPI and Miami than Clemson or Florida State. I would like to play Duke and North Carolina over Wake Forest and NC State I live in Charlotte and Wake and NC State are closer to me location wise but Duke/UNC are better for fanbases. Georgia Tech appeals more to me than Louisville. Boston College would be played if we were in the Coastal. The ACC would do BC-SU and VPI-Pitt as cross-over games IMO in that scenario as Pitt-VPI is a decent Big East rivalry. I like playing Clemson and Florida State, but I would prefer the Coastal to the Atlantic.

 

[Trueblue25]

Coastal. I want Miami and Tech.

Also, anomander I just wanted to say thanks for the threads you post, they're always pretty thought provoking and some of my favorites on the site.

 

[HtownOrange]

Short version: Atlantic

Long version:

1) Not sure why everyone has SU as perpetual 7-5 and 8-4 teams. Sorry, that is not who Syracuse is historically. The Orange have ups and downs, as does everyone else. This thinking is bad juju for the mojo and should be stopped!
2) Historically, Syracuse is among the elite teams in the ACC, #2 in total wins (second only because Beamer Ball requires weak scheduling, only in recent years has VATech scheduling been almost respectable, recall that Schiano learned this from Beamer and we did have the GRob era) Clemson is no better historically. VATech has a couple more wins but no championships and VERY FEW big time wins. Miami won big when they were not being watched and half their team was already slated for the nearest state pen. FSU is the only abberration, but they get the #1 recruits in FL (along with UF).
3) Syracuse has invested in its teams, including football.
4) Clemson has less money to work with in the AD, they were at $60+MM, Syracuse is flirting with the $100MM club!
5) Syracuse recruits well (Coach P and GRob excepted). Kids will play in the Dome. Top players will that may not be #1 will consider playing elsewhere for playing time and a shot at the pros, especially when they consider that the football factories routinely dismiss 4 and 5 star kids that falter on a team full of 4 and 5 star kids.
6) Our coaching staff knows how to find hidden gems, recruit them early, get commitments, develop players. Fisher and Swinney (I like both of these guys as coaches) don't have to develop players, they get who they want. They get lazy/passive. Fisher has had so much talent that he should have two or three NCs but failed v. teams that FSU should not have lost to.
7) Louisville is not the historical juggernaut people want to believe them to be. Petrino is on a short leash and if he proves up, he's gone for more money - he already did this! Besides, he won big at Louisville in a much lesser conference.
8) Syracuse has a football rich history respected nationwide. Kids like this. VATech has Beamer. Miami has a bunch of criminals not intelligent enough to sign their own names. Louisville lacks the history. FSU has a rich history since the late eighties but nothing before that of significance. Clemson has been lackluster of late. UNC is the definition of underachiever. GATech and UVA actually make kids study but these kids be both football smart and generally smart for some reason like they are at Syracuse!
9) Syracuse is a school with an academic reputation. FSU, VATech and Miami (football players) cannot claim this. UVA, UNC and GATech can claim academics, but lets face it, GATech is the only one that plays football, and certainly not high level football.
10) Duke of late, Wake a few years ago, NCState since (I cannot recall) are spiking and falling back.

In short, people are selling Syracuse short in the Atlantic. They will be receiving a wake up call soon.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Wow. I don't know if anyone could post a more optimistic post than that right there. I don't know if there's more than 10% truth in the 10 bullet points, but whatever man I'm not going to argue with that enthusiasm.

 

[donniesyracuse]

Give me no divisions and ten conference games

 

[Alsacs]

Wow. I don't know if anyone could post a more optimistic post than that right there. I don't know if there's more than 10% truth in the 10 bullet points, but whatever man I'm not going to argue with that enthusiasm.

Yeah considering Miami is a great academic school that was in my final 5 for college. It is ranked higher than SU. You nailed it if 25% of that was the truth I would be shocked.
UNC has been recruiting really really well and should be top 25 next year and the Coastal favorites.
I don't remember the last 5 star kid we recruited for football.

 

[Scooch]

In my opinion it's kind of silly to judge our desired division based on who's good in 2013 and 2014. That's cyclical, it's sure to change soon enough.

Historically and geographically the schools in the Coastal seem vastly more attractive to me.

 

[HtownOrange]

Yeah considering Miami is a great academic school that was in my final 5 for college. It is ranked higher than SU. You nailed it if 25% of that was the truth I would be shocked.
UNC has been recruiting really really well and should be top 25 next year and the Coastal favorites.
I don't remember the last 5 star kid we recruited for football.[/quot

Miami is a good school. However, their football team in 80's and 90's was more noted for criminal acts than academic achievements. Some of you young guys forget that history didn't start when GRob was hired.

Feel free to provide proof of inaccuracies. As for UNC, they have been recruiting very well the last several years and have done nothing, as opposed to Fisher and Swinney who have been winning with their good recruits.

But, hey, if you and others want the perennial 7-5 team in fourth place in the Atlantic, have at it. I did not claim we were challenging FSU for the ACC and national title this fall.

 

[Alsacs]

I like your posts so I don't want you to think otherwise. However, SU is probably in the middle academically in the ACC.
I know about he 80's Canes but my point was Miami is a better academic school than SU.
North Carolina is going to be really good their coach Fedora has been killing it on the recruiting trial and UNC is finally looking their potential will be met. I hope everything you said about SU happens I was just agree you were being optimistic. I hope your right and your post was good so if I offended you that wasn't my intent and I apologize if you feel that way as I respect your posts.

 

[texasorange]

Give me no divisions and ten conference games

I am leaning towards the Coastal Division. I do like playing Florida State and Clemson, but it is a tough road to the championship of the division. Therefore I like the above post.

 

[rrlbees]

IMO, the Coastal is a no brainer. We have more history with those teams and as far as who is better on the field, that stuff is cyclical.

 

[CanadianSU]

Coastal