College Bball is in a steep decline

[Toga]

The NBA sucks along with a lot of the so called "stars" and haven't watched in about 5 years and do not miss it.

Have never really watched the NBA at least the regular season. Lately I've watched the Knicks because I like watching Jalen Brunson.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I feel like we would all be pretty much OK with the state of college basketball if we were actually good.

You’d feel “OK” in the moment but still yearning for a real emotional connection… wondering whether you’ll ever truly find it again. Kind of like a night at paradise found when it’s on someone else’s dime.

 

[OttosShoes]

I think a good solution would actually be to make the rim smaller and/or oval. A little bit like those scams at the fair but not that bad.

A lot of what was so interesting about basketball was the fight to get inside and up. Fast breaks and drives and alley oops and blocked shots.

These days, training and whatnot has gotten so good there's no shortage of folks that can shoot. And analytics saying even if you have a good drive, now the defense is collapsed and you should kick it back out and take a shot. So a lot of games don't end up athletic fights as much as they do a prolonged series of coin tosses.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I think a good solution would actually be to make the rim smaller and/or oval. A little bit like those scams at the fair but not that bad.

A lot of what was so interesting about basketball was the fight to get inside and up. Fast breaks and drives and alley oops and blocked shots.

These days, training and whatnot has gotten so good there's no shortage of folks that can shoot. And analytics saying even if you have a good drive, now the defense is collapsed and you should kick it back out and take a shot. So a lot of games don't end up athletic fights as much as they do a prolonged series of coin tosses.

Our best 3 point shooter went 5 games without hitting one this year.

I think all jump shots should just go back to being worth two. Eliminate the 3. I'd maybe put a line closer to half court that is worth 4.

 

[Red Holzman]

I have very limited experience with youth basketball and it just might be my son's experience

But there is way too little practice and way too many games and idiotic point guard play is not punished because teams don't have enough players get the ball up the floor. So everyone is just at the mercy of kids dribbling into four people over and over.

Once guys get to the NBA, the game is so smart and efficient but it's so dumb at lower levels

+1 not just your son's experience-
Can't effectively teach a young team dribbling/ball handling/etc with 1HR/wk team practices often skipped due to school breaks or gym not available, and game nights squeezed so tight that time outs aren't allowed and breaks only long enough for a quick drink.
Then they age up to next league where double teams/press allowed and they can't even get the ball over mid-court.
Know from experience.

As a kid, spent countless hours practicing and playing pickup in the driveway. Somehow, with no coaching, that is where I learned most of my ball-handling skills. Kids need a ball regularly in their hands outside of the organized stuff IMO.

 

[chuck]

I haven't done any formal research but based on watching a significant amount of games it obvious to me that college basketball is not doing well. I'm not sure if it's related to the revolving rosters, a lack of good coaching, declining interest from younger fans, or the fact that product on the floor is really poor.
Regardless, the sport is in a serious downturn.

When u got kids playing at 5 different schools in 5 years and 100% starting 5 turnover every year because of NIL nonsense then of course the product is gonna be trash.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Our best 3 point shooter went 5 games without hitting one this year.

I think all jump shots should just go back to being worth two. Eliminate the 3. I'd maybe put a line closer to half court that is worth 4.

Watched SU-Hoyas 85 the other day half expecting it to feel so dull but it was actually refreshing and interesting to see teams working to get the ball to a good spot in the paint or for a midrange shot. With the plethora of shooters now I think we could actually remove the 3 pt line and not completely swing the pendulum back in the other direction. Defenses would have to stretch further than they did in 85 because of the percentages.

 

[Millhouse]

I thought we were going to see a switch up when the Suns looked good for that run a couple years ago with the mid range game. But quickly went back to 3s. Theres just so few that can pull it off like Paul was able to that year

I think an actual idea that can be implemented is getting rid of the corner 3. It’s just too easy for nba players. End the 3 pt line into the side line.

They need to figure out how to combat the gather step in the NBA. It's too easy to control the ball without fully gathering it. They only really know that it's been gathered after the guy has taken three giant steps which always puts the defender in a damned if you do damned if you don't position

 

[Millhouse]

AAU basketball is absolute garbage and you can see it with so many freshmen unable to play defense or have a decent awareness.

Not trying to pick on Choppa and Donnie but they both fall into this. Weak and scared on defense but always looking to get shots up on offense


Not their fault, a product of horrendous youth basketball.

The other thing about youth basketball is the refs are so focused on staying on schedule that they didn't call fouls.

Maybe AAU isn't as bad as I think, I've only been to one tournament, once was enough

 

[Col. Bleep]

Why would the players unionize?

It would then open the door for the NCAA (or conferences or other entities) to negotiate with the union and set various caps on NIL's, required time at schools, etc.

Otherwise those caps likely would be antitrust violations.
But if they are created through union negotiations they're generally exempt from antitrust regulation.

The advantage for players?
Negotiations would presumably bring them.
But others here may know more on that point which seems to be the heart of the question.

Unfortunately, we need to face facts.
The days of college ball as we knew it are over.
It's now a professional game.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

why does it work in baseball then?

Anti-trust exemptions.Also, as mentioned, collectively bargained.

 

[CardiacCuse]

the conference groupings are also idiotic to me...west coast and midwestern teams in the atlantic coast conference?

when will the conferences make sense again?

having so much in college bball determined by football is another reason im losing interest

 

[CardiacCuse]

I feel like we would all be pretty much OK with the state of college basketball if we were actually good.

if we were a 1 seed...I wouldnt be as disinterested...and i'd likely be tuning in to every game, at least

but i would still be down on the sport for all of the reasons mentioned in this thread, personally...i'd still dislike the weird conference groupings, would still hate how NIL is changing the sport, would still hate how "player empowerment" has led to a culture of me me me, would still hate how football is basically the biggest driver of what is happening in ncaabb etc

i'd tolerate it better but wouldnt be "pretty much ok" with it

 

[SkyTopBus44]

the conference groupings are also idiotic to me...west coast and midwestern teams in the atlantic coast conference?

when will the conferences make sense again?

having so much in college bball determined by football is another reason im losing interest

I miss the regional rivalries. I grew up in Massachusetts and went to SU. I had friends who attended many of the Big East schools, Providence, UConn, Georgetown, Villanova, etc. I lived in Connecticut during the crazy 6 OT game. There were real bragging rights during this time. I do not know anyone who went to Louisville, NC State, Florida State, Clemson, and many of the other ACC schools. I know the Duke game has had meaning in the Dome and has drawn big crowds. I personally do not know anyone who went to Duke so the win isn't as big as when we beat UConn/Nova/Gtown back in the day. Many friends across work/hometown folks went to the Big East tournament or watched together in a sports bar. It feels really santized now to me. I am also 48 years old so maybe college attendance is not as regional as it once was back in the 1990s.

 

[Eric15]

I know I've said this before, but for me the absolute worst thing about college basketball is I have no freaking idea who plays for other teams due to roster turnover.

Kentucky for instance. I can name their entire starting lineup and bench players from 1996, but I can't name one single player on their team right now.

 

[Madbiker]

Our impression is that college hoops is in decline and blah blah because our team sucks.
When I watch games of the top 20 teams playing at home to big crowds they're into it just great,
It's Feb 1 and we already know for some time there will be no NCAA Tourney for us -- again.
The only thing of interest is if we can avoid the embarrassment of being one of the 3 bottom ACC teams to not even be invited to the ACC Tourney and miss out on our annual one and done there.

Yes, college hoops has changed much for the worse. It was bound to happen when the players were allowed to become paid professional mercenaries. What we miss isn't college basketball. We miss winning and being relevant for the NCAA Tourney.

 

[Millhouse]

Our impression is that college hoops is in decline and blah blah because our team sucks.
When I watch games of the top 20 teams playing at home to big crowds they're into it just great,
It's Feb 1 and we already know for some time there will be no NCAA Tourney for us -- again.
The only thing of interest is if we can avoid the embarrassment of being one of the 3 bottom ACC teams to not even be invited to the ACC Tourney and miss out on our annual one and done there.

Yes, college hoops has changed much for the worse. It was bound to happen when the players were allowed to become paid professional mercenaries. What we miss isn't college basketball. We miss winning and being relevant for the NCAA Tourney.

I used to watch more college basketball. Since we stink, I should be watching more of other teams if I want to see good games. Instead, I'll turn on the NBA instead.

 

[djcon57]

It would then open the door for the NCAA (or conferences or other entities) to negotiate with the union and set various caps on NIL's, required time at schools, etc.

Otherwise those caps likely would be antitrust violations.
But if they are created through union negotiations they're generally exempt from antitrust regulation.

The advantage for players?
Negotiations would presumably bring them.
But others here may know more on that point which seems to be the heart of the question.

Unfortunately, we need to face facts.
The days of college ball as we knew it are over.
It's now a professional game.

Why would the players want to set caps on NILs?

Does the NBA salary cap have a cap on shoe deals?

Again, I'm not arguing the need for it or if it would make the sport better. I'm speaking the reality of the landscape. People consistently say stuff like "There should be a cap" or "They shouldn't allow the portal" (Already denied in court) or the whole you have to stay in school 2 years (NBA Players won't sign off on that).

I wish people on this board would read up on the cases and the reasons why it is how it is currently before basically asking for impossible things

 

[Eric15]

Big Monday for me used to be like Monday Night Football. Meaning that whoever is playing, I'll always at least have it on in the background and watch parts of games.

So if it was UConn vs. Louisville, or Georgetown vs. Nova, etc. I felt an emotional connection to these games and how it indirectly impacted Syracuse's resume.

But now, if Syracuse isn't playing, I find myself defaulting to whatever NBA game is on ESPN or TNT.

I still think I would be gravitating towards college basketball more if we were actually relevant. But it's still not what it once was.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I know I've said this before, but for me the absolute worst thing about college basketball is I have no freaking idea who plays for other teams due to roster turnover.

Kentucky for instance. I can name their entire starting lineup and bench players from 1996, but I can't name one single player on their team right now.

i have to look at a player’s number even on SU’s team to be sure who made or didn’t make a play with all the transfers. Heck, I recognize maybe 3 names on UNC’s team, none on Louisville etc. Having players switching within the ACC conference use to be prevented - now conference “brothers” are recruiting and NILing even other team’s conference players away from their team. There are no longer any ethical nor moral boundaries from poaching players even within conference. Recruiting can now occur in the handshake lines. It’s a crazy world. Some players aren’t motivated by playing and winning for their team and teammates but are actually auditioning for their next year‘s team. My favorite thing was watching players develop over time, it’s all changed and you have to worry if a player’s development during a season means they will be looking elsewhere soon.

 

[Cuse4403]

Why would the players want to set caps on NILs?

Does the NBA salary cap have a cap on shoe deals?

Again, I'm not arguing the need for it or if it would make the sport better. I'm speaking the reality of the landscape. People consistently say stuff like "There should be a cap" or "They shouldn't allow the portal" (Already denied in court) or the whole you have to stay in school 2 years (NBA Players won't sign off on that).

I wish people on this board would read up on the cases and the reasons why it is how it is currently before basically asking for impossible things

Sadly I agree with the vast majority of this. For me, and a lot of people, college basketball has been destroyed. 11 PM conference games out West with a roster full of guys that weren't on the team the previous season. No thanks. I will continue to watch Syracuse and the tournament but my interest has really declined.

As someone that loved the NBA in the 80s and 90s that product is ruined for me as well. The players now are indeed exceptional talents, but scoring is out of control and the defense is sub par. I cannot get interested in a game that's 112-104 in the third quarter.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Our impression is that college hoops is in decline and blah blah because our team sucks.
When I watch games of the top 20 teams playing at home to big crowds they're into it just great,
It's Feb 1 and we already know for some time there will be no NCAA Tourney for us -- again.
The only thing of interest is if we can avoid the embarrassment of being one of the 3 bottom ACC teams to not even be invited to the ACC Tourney and miss out on our annual one and done there.

Yes, college hoops has changed much for the worse. It was bound to happen when the players were allowed to become paid professional mercenaries. What we miss isn't college basketball. We miss winning and being relevant for the NCAA Tourney.

reducing it to merely syracuse sucks so we miss only that is just not true for me

i used to be excited by the sport ...back with the Fab 5 UNLV even teams like Arkansas and Kentucky with delk and mashburn etc...guys like Malik Sealy and Shawn Respert and Moten and John Wallace and Marcu Camby anfernee hardaway keeny anderson allen iverson ...Alonzo and Dikembe etc etc

are we even close to that anymore??

its just not the same...i literally dont even know who any players are anymore...this year i know cooper flagg and thats about it...the blockbuster value is GONE.

the coaches made the sport too...tarkanian, pitino, even coach cal, dean smith, roy williams, tony bennet jay wright rollie massimino john cheney on and on

how many big personalities are there in the coaching ranks anymore???

the sport is just dead

 

[Charbroil]

I don’t necessarily disagree with a lot of the points being made here. But I don’t think this is just a college basketball problem. You hear the same types of complaints about NBA, MLB, NHL, and college football from their respective fans. How those sports are broken and not near what they used to be 10, 20, 30+ years ago.

Not really sure what my point is. Maybe just that everything sucks and the glass half full view of things is that we’ll all die someday which will save us from having to watch these shitty products.

 

[Madbiker]

reducing it to merely syracuse sucks so we miss only that is just not true for me

i used to be excited by the sport ...back with the Fab 5 UNLV even teams like Arkansas and Kentucky with delk and mashburn etc...guys like Malik Sealy and Shawn Respert and Moten and John Wallace and Marcu Camby anfernee hardaway keeny anderson allen iverson ...Alonzo and Dikembe etc etc

are we even close to that anymore??

its just not the same...i literally dont even know who any players are anymore...this year i know cooper flagg and thats about it...the blockbuster value is GONE.

the coaches made the sport too...tarkanian, pitino, even coach cal, dean smith, roy williams, tony bennet jay wright rollie massimino john cheney on and on

how many big personalities are there in the coaching ranks anymore???

the sport is just dead

You're right that the level of play is not anything near what it was once in college hoops. That's because the really talented players only play one year as freshmen. So we don't get to see them develop as huge talents in their soph, junior, senior years as we did back in the day.

 

[Cusefan0307]

As people get older they think everything gets worse said every generation ever.