College players today vs the past players

[albanycuse]

Was reading a thread where some people thought players in the past were better than they are today and i def dont agree. Todays players have more tools to get better. Camps, aau teams, skill camps by position etc etc. theres more parity today than ever imo. Weight training and techniques are involved in todays game like never seen before. So imo no way were the past players overall better than they are today.


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[Knicks411]

This is true but the difference is the best players stayed for 3 or 4 years instead of 1. So the average freshmen coming into the game might be better than he was 30 years ago, but the best of them are also leaving after a year.

30 years ago Anthony Davis was still in college, and would be for another year or two. Now, he's gone.

 

[albanycuse]

I smell what you're cooking.


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[BostonOrange]

I smell what you're cooking.


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Yeah what Knicks411 said was my point. Watching that SU-SJU game from 1990, it wasn't just the talent (which was considerable), it was the experience level and the talented big guys. Guys like Coleman just aren't around as seniors anymore. For that matter guys like Owens aren't around as sophs.

 

[albanycuse]

Makes sense now.


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[Marsh01]

Was reading a thread where some people thought players in the past were better than they are today and i def dont agree. Todays players have more tools to get better. Camps, aau teams, skill camps by position etc etc. theres more parity today than ever imo. Weight training and techniques are involved in todays game like never seen before. So imo no way were the past players overall better than they are today.


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They were better basketball players but not better athletes. Plus they were tougher.

 

[orange2win]

You often hear JB talk about the parity in college ball today. Reason - the best programs get the hot prospects, but they leave after one or two years. Any team that is well stacked with talented 3 star seniors can beat a power conference team with a couple of hot shot freshmen.

In the old days that never happened.

 

[Todd Gack]

This came up in Boeheim's radio show tonight -- I'll leave it to SWC to provide more of the deets, but he credited a lot of it to players staying longer, saying that back in the '80s there were 8-9 NBA players on the court during an SU-G'Town game.

But I'll also cite Bob Knight's reason that, today, there's too much awe given to the dunk.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I'm amazed at the number of starters for major D1 teams who have absolutely no offhand, no ability to make a jumpshot from 9 feet out, make a hook shot, nor capable of scoring on 75% of their free throws. Current players are more athletic(taller, jump higher etc) but have less fundamental basketball skills. I don't blame the kids though, college coaches aren't demanding that their recruits possess these skills out of high school and so high school, AAU and youth coaches don't bother concentrate on developing these basic skills in their players either.

 

[Quazzum69]

I'm amazed at the number of starters for major D1 teams who have absolutely no offhand, no ability to make a jumpshot from 9 feet out, make a hook shot, nor capable of scoring on 75% of their free throws. Current players are more athletic(taller, jump higher etc) but have less fundamental basketball skills. I don't blame the kids though, college coaches aren't demanding that their recruits possess these skills out of high school and so high school, AAU and youth coaches don't bother concentrate on developing these basic skills in their players either.

It's not like we're in a vacuum and a free throw is a free throw. It's not. If you're banging withing bigger, faster, stronger guys that smack you and hand check you constantly, of course shooting percentage will be lower - the game is different. Maybe some aspects of the game have deteriorated, but others have been improved greatly. I guarantee, though, that if all variables were held constant, today's players would be shooting as well as in the past.

I hate to say it but I think much of the "older" crowd on this board are mistaking evolution of the game for regression of the game.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

Read the book "Play Their Hearts Out." It talks a lot about kids not developing proper skills because a lot of AAU coaches are good at assimilating talent but suck at fundamentals and kids are going straight off athleticism.

 

[HighTop]

I'm amazed at the number of starters for major D1 teams who have absolutely no offhand, no ability to make a jumpshot from 9 feet out, make a hook shot, nor capable of scoring on 75% of their free throws. Current players are more athletic(taller, jump higher etc) but have less fundamental basketball skills. I don't blame the kids though, college coaches aren't demanding that their recruits possess these skills out of high school and so high school, AAU and youth coaches don't bother concentrate on developing these basic skills in their players either.

couldn't have said this better myself, it's all about the fundamentals and these day kids who have them are few and far between. basketball IQ seems to have dropped over the past 10-15 years as well.

 

[rstone7727]

I'm amazed at the number of starters for major D1 teams who have absolutely no offhand, no ability to make a jumpshot from 9 feet out, make a hook shot, nor capable of scoring on 75% of their free throws. Current players are more athletic(taller, jump higher etc) but have less fundamental basketball skills. I don't blame the kids though, college coaches aren't demanding that their recruits possess these skills out of high school and so high school, AAU and youth coaches don't bother concentrate on developing these basic skills in their players either.

Excellent post and right on the "money"..

 

[SoBeCuse]

They were better basketball players but not better athletes. Plus they were tougher.

Totally agree. I'm watching this ESPN Classic Duke/UNC game and even a guy like Kevin Salvadori has post moves and quick, decisive footwork that is so coveted and a lost part of the game for big guys now.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Thinking about how the game has progressed to this point, will there ever be a 4-year superstar again at a major BCS school? Will we ever see a Coleman again? A John Wallace? Even a Lawrence Moten? Heck, who was the last 4-year superstar in the country, as in good/great for 4 seasons, not someone who developed into a star by his senior year? Was it freakin' JJ Redick?

 

[rosconey]

blame jordan- and espn-

even though he had a fully rounded game-espn made it all about his dunks


todays kids want highlight dunks every play- blake griffin style ball has done quite a bit of damage to american basketball-

if the europeans didnt start dominating the draft a decade ago with bigs with offense and guards who share and can handle the ball- american basketball would all but be dead-

it has shown with the style of the college game today- bigs can only dunk,zero post moves-guards who cant handle pressure worth a dang unless they are 3-4 year players and cant shoot

 

[anomander]

Was reading a thread where some people thought players in the past were better than they are today and i def dont agree. Todays players have more tools to get better. Camps, aau teams, skill camps by position etc etc. theres more parity today than ever imo. Weight training and techniques are involved in todays game like never seen before. So imo no way were the past players overall better than they are today.


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To work on their skills? Last time I checked a jump shot and free throw shooting was an important skill. They focus on the wrong things now a days and are no way better then they were 20-30 years ago.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Was reading a thread where some people thought players in the past were better than they are today and i def dont agree. Todays players have more tools to get better. Camps, aau teams, skill camps by position etc etc. theres more parity today than ever imo. Weight training and techniques are involved in todays game like never seen before. So imo no way were the past players overall better than they are today.


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They may be better athletes, but they are not better basketball players. Players today spend all summer playing AAU ball, which ingrains lots of bad habits and does not feature actual team play. Players were better off spending the summer working on their skills back in the old days, when the AAU circuit didn't take up their whole summer. Also you can blame the changes in the NBA game about a generation ago. They put the emphasis on the dunk, at the expense of pretty much every other element of the game. The fact that there are no quality big men anymore has a lot to do with AAU ball, too. These kids can go all summer without seeing many post up opportunities. They would do better to spend the time at home, working on a drop step and a jump hook. Basketball skills are at an all-time low.

 

[rosconey]

aau has been real bad for basketball- just another way to whore out a kid -

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This came up in Boeheim's radio show tonight -- I'll leave it to SWC to provide more of the deets, but he credited a lot of it to players staying longer, saying that back in the '80s there were 8-9 NBA players on the court during an SU-G'Town game.

But I'll also cite Bob Knight's reason that, today, there's too much awe given to the dunk.

And some of those players SU faced in the 80s are hall of famers now (Ewing, Mullens just to get the ball rolling). How many hall of famers do you think we played this year? Any?

 

[Cheriehoop]

What I found interesting is that otto porter didn't play aau ball.he was taught by his father/uncles on his grandmother's basketball court.his father believed that aau basketball didn't teach skills and was just a series of pickup games or scrimmages. His father wanted him to be a well rounded basketball player who knew how to work and move without the ball. I realize not many talented young players have an Otto Porter Sr as a dad to develop a multi-faceted game but skill based summers would benefit most young players.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

What I found interesting is that otto porter didn't play aau ball.he was taught by his father/uncles on his grandmother's basketball court.his father believed that aau basketball didn't teach skills and was just a series of pickup games or scrimmages. His father wanted him to be a well rounded basketball player who knew how to work and move without the ball. I realize not many talented young players have an Otto Porter Sr as a dad to develop a multi-faceted game but skill based summers would benefit most young players.

Wow, and he was one of the true pro looking players we've seen all year. Very talented and can do it all.

 

[BostonOrange]

To work on their skills? Last time I checked a jump shot and free throw shooting was an important skill. They focus on the wrong things now a days and are no way better then they were 20-30 years ago.

I really thing the single biggest difference in players is that no one has a post game anymore. At the college level you can understand that because all the big guys leave early. But it's really true in the pros as well. When you think, for instance, of guys that had great post games in the 80's lots of guys come to mind - Mchale, Olajuwon, Kareem, Barkley, Ewing, Worthy, Moses, Aguirre, Dantley.

Now...Tim Duncan...Zach Randolph? Most of the great big guys of recent years don't really play in the post that much - KG, Webber, Bosh (not that he is on the same level as the other guys). I mean guys like Griffin, Bosh, LBJ, they can play in the post if they have to, but it isn't like the old days.

And also...and this is the most perplexing thing...what has happened to the true 7 footer? The last real air craft carrier was Shaq. And Forth of course.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I really thing the single biggest difference in players is that no one has a post game anymore. At the college level you can understand that because all the big guys leave early. But it's really true in the pros as well. When you think, for instance, of guys that had great post games in the 80's lots of guys come to mind - Mchale, Olajuwon, Kareem, Barkley, Ewing, Worthy, Moses, Aguirre, Dantley.

Now...Tim Duncan...Zach Randolph? Most of the great big guys of recent years don't really play in the post that much - KG, Webber, Bosh (not that he is on the same level as the other guys). I mean guys like Griffin, Bosh, LBJ, they can play in the post if they have to, but it isn't like the old days.

And also...and this is the most perplexing thing...what has happened to the true 7 footer? The last real air craft carrier was Shaq. And Forth of course.

I think the Euro bigs like Dirk not playing like bigs is what started the downfall of the true center. Guys that tall stepping out and shooting threes. Takes a lot of shots to be good at shooting that far and that takes away from actually perfecting post moves.

 

[BostonOrange]

I think the Euro bigs like Dirk not playing like bigs is what started the downfall of the true center. Guys that tall stepping out and shooting threes. Takes a lot of shots to be good at shooting that far and that takes away from actually perfecting post moves.

I think that is definitely part of it, but also there just aren't guys who are that BIG and talented anymore. I mean 40 years ago you had Wilt at 7'1 and Kareem at 7'2. Twenty years ago you had Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq all over 7 ft. Now you have Tyson Chandler. And Haseem Thabeet.