College players today vs the past players

[Knicks411]

You also hear about guys not wanting to be measured in at 7 foot because then they're "supposed" to play down low. I think KG is one of those guys. Honestly, at this point, KD may have reached 7 feet, which is absurd.

Dirk is a 7 footer, but obviously not in the traditional sense.

 

[rosconey]

I think that is definitely part of it, but also there just aren't guys who are that BIG and talented anymore. I mean 40 years ago you had Wilt at 7'1 and Kareem at 7'2. Twenty years ago you had Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq all over 7 ft. Now you have Tyson Chandler. And Haseem Thabeet.

i blame georgetown- they stopped pumping them out-

seriously why are there no real good bigs? could the aau be that destructive?

 

[MikeSU02]

The funnel to the NBA has grossly changed since the 80s, so you can't expect college basketball to stay the same.

Profiling 6th graders, AAU ball, the insane influx of street agents... kids are making deals for agents before they are signing a LOI.

As much as it pains me as an SU fan, the system is broke. They need to take the very elite and create academies specifically for basketball, like a kid would for tennis or gymnastics or what not.

There is no reason for these kids to go to college for a year or two that don't need to be there. Put them in a safe, mentored environment to teach them the game, grow their abilities and give them an education and let them decide what they want to do at 18.

It would also help if the NBA would admit that it loves using the NCAA as a free minor league system.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think that is definitely part of it, but also there just aren't guys who are that BIG and talented anymore. I mean 40 years ago you had Wilt at 7'1 and Kareem at 7'2. Twenty years ago you had Robinson, Ewing, and Shaq all over 7 ft. Now you have Tyson Chandler. And Haseem Thabeet.

And the gasols, and brooke Lopez, and Roy hibbert, and Andrew bogut are the other true 7 footers? All, significantly better than Hasheem Thabeet.

 

[Cheriehoop]

I wonder if the demise of the coveted 7 footer is the result of the love of pure athleticism. It appears that colleges are mining african countries for their tall, athletic big guys who can run, jump with fresh legs and knees that haven't taken the pounding of years on the blacktops/hardwood. They are late to the game so they have hever developed postup moves. Most college teams don 't focus their offensive games around their center anymore and just utilize them for defense, rebounding and put backs. Indiana and duke seem the exception but they aren't really 7 footers I think.

 

[BostonOrange]

And the gasols, and brooke Lopez, and Roy hibbert, and Andrew bogut are the other true 7 footers? All, significantly better than Hasheem Thabeet.

Yes you are right. But none of those guys is a superstar like the centers of the past. Not even close.

 

[BostonOrange]

I wonder if the demise of the coveted 7 footer is the result of the love of pure athleticism. It appears that colleges are mining african countries for their tall, athletic big guys who can run, jump with fresh legs and knees that haven't taken the pounding of years on the blacktops/hardwood. They are late to the game so they have hever developed postup moves. Most college teams don 't focus their offensive games around their center anymore and just utilize them for defense, rebounding and put backs. Indiana and duke seem the exception but they aren't really 7 footers I think.

Maybe, but colleges have mined the globe for athletic big guys for decades - Olajuwon, Mutombo, , Smits, Duncan come to mind - so i'm not sure what's new about that. I guess the game is just being taught differently, but you'd still think there should be an occasional Ewing or Shaq...and there hasn't been. I mean Brad Daughtery would be the best center in the league today.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

With respect to the demise of the big man in the NBA, I think people are forgetting one huge factor. NBA teams are now allowed to play zone defenses. This makes it much easier to deny a post player the ball and create traffic once he receives the ball. Hakeem Olajuwon or Patrick Ewing would not be able to isolate in the post as much in today's NBA.

Additionally, with the relaxation of calls against illegal screens along with the focus on calling hand checking on the perimeter, it became easier for perimeter players to operate.

Finally, teams started researching shot efficiency by location and found that the best ways to generate points are dunks/layups, free throws and open threes. This has led to more high screens and drive-and-kick principles.

This trickles down to college because college players want to be prepared to play in the NBA.

 

[Knicks411]

Bynum is a 7 foot post player, when he actually plays. Brook Lopez is one of the better post scorers in the game.

Some of it is the 3 point line and the moving of the game away from the bucket. If Dirk was born in 1960, he's probably a post up C. Hell, I've made the comparison before, but Lebron is basically the same size as Karl Malone; if he was born in a different era he may have been more of a 4 than he is now.

I would assume there are the same number of 7 footers, roughly, as there were 20 or 30 years ago. Anyone have the #'s?

 

[Quazzum69]

There are great low-post offensive players out there - just not at Syracuse! If you have a chance to watch LSU at all, look for Johnny O'Bryant III; he's 6'9", 260 lbs and can dribble, shoot, has great footwork, just a beast. I would love to see him in an SU uniform.

I realize none of you probably particularly care about an SEC football school's basketball team but I think perspective is good. LSU has a former walk-on tuba player (I kid you not, a tuba player from their band) playing center. He didn't play high school basketball and he's as productive as SU's center (.580 fg%, 4.4 ppg and 3.1 rpg in 14 min vs Rak's .550 fg%, 5.6 ppg and 5 rpg in 22 min). He gets the ball more than our centers and has decent moves to boot!

Don't put all the blame on AAU; some college coaches just do a better job developing and utilizing players' skills. It's kind of a chicken/egg situation; what incentive do low-post players have to improve that facet of their game when coaches are relying more and more on guards for production. It's the coaches not using low-post play (i.e. Boeheim) that stunt big-men's games.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

What about guys like Tyson Chandler and Dwight Howard?

 

[BostonOrange]

Bynum is a 7 foot post player, when he actually plays. Brook Lopez is one of the better post scorers in the game.

Some of it is the 3 point line and the moving of the game away from the bucket. If Dirk was born in 1960, he's probably a post up C. Hell, I've made the comparison before, but Lebron is basically the same size as Karl Malone; if he was born in a different era he may have been more of a 4 than he is now.

I would assume there are the same number of 7 footers, roughly, as there were 20 or 30 years ago. Anyone have the #'s?

It is about the same. The main difference is the guys now suck or play like Bargnani. Bynum, when healthy, is probably the 2nd best center in the game, and he is basically a poor man's Joe Barry Carroll, who was considered an enormous bust. Re LBJ, I think the biggest difference in his game this year is he is playing down on the block more, where he is totally unstoppable. Being a huge C's fan when we've played them (4 playoff series in the last 5 years) I've hated it when he went into the post. You just can't guard him down there and if you double he is so skilled he can create something for the other guys.

Re the other posters point about Zones that is interesting and I hadn't really thought about it, but not sure it's really a huge factor.

Also actually when I think about it the last 3 true 7 ft centers with superstar type potential were Bynum, Oden, and Ming. All totally derailed by injuries.

 

[Knicks411]

I think you might be a little too hard on Bynum; when healthy, he is really good.

But the game is definitely more of a perimeter game than ever, and th at goes from guards to the bigs.

 

[BostonOrange]

I think you might be a little too hard on Bynum; when healthy, he is really good.

But the game is definitely more of a perimeter game than ever, and th at goes from guards to the bigs.

Joe Barry Carroll averaged over 20 pts a game 5 times, Bynum hasn't done it once. Also, I drafted him in the 2nd round of my fantasy draft to me. He was 'day to day'. So needless to say he is dead to me.

 

[Knicks411]

Haha, i was a few minutes late to my draft and they autopicked me Bynum in round 1, so I think I have you beat.

Also, Bynum is a much more efficient scorer than Carroll; career 60% true shooting. JBC's career single season was a shade below 56%.

 

[BostonOrange]

Haha, i was a few minutes late to my draft and they autopicked me Bynum in round 1, so I think I have you beat.

Also, Bynum is a much more efficient scorer than Carroll; career 60% true shooting. JBC's career single season was a shade below 56%.

It's good to know that we are spending our day looking at Joe Barry Carroll statistics.

 

[Knicks411]

It's good to know that we are spending our day looking at Joe Barry Carroll statistics.

beats working