Compare these resumes | Syracusefan.com

Compare these resumes

Alsacs

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Not from the same season and I think people will be able to figure them out anyway.

Team A
30-1
RPI 23
SOS 179
NC SOS 37
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 1-0
vs RPI top 150 11-1
vs sub RPI 150 17-0
NCAA tournment seed 6

Team B
30-0
RPI 9
SOS 119
NC SOS 33
Record vs RPI top 25 1-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 4-0
vs RPI top 150 11-0
vs sub RPI 150 14-0
projected NCAA tournament seed 1

Team C
27-1
RPI 2
SOS 69
NC SOS 1
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 3-1
vs RPI top 100 7-0
vs RPI top 150 7-0
vs sub RPI 150 8-0
NCAA tournament seed 1

Team D
30-2
RPI 6
SOS 96
NC SOS 41
Record vs RPI top 25 1-1
vs RPI top 50 5-1
vs RPI top 100 6-0
vs RPI top 150 2-0
vs sub RPI 150 16-0
NCAA tournament seed 1


Yet nobody in the freaking media can do this type of article and curtail the freaking propaganda to get the little engine that could a 1 seed.
 
Not from the same season and I think people will be able to figure them out anyway.

Team A
30-1
RPI 23
SOS 179
NC SOS 37
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 1-0
vs RPI top 150 11-1
vs sub RPI 150 17-0
NCAA tournment seed 6

Team B
30-0
RPI 9
SOS 119
NC SOS 33
Record vs RPI top 25 1-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 4-0
vs RPI top 150 11-0
vs sub RPI 150 14-0
projected NCAA tournament seed 1

Team C
27-1
RPI 2
SOS 69
NC SOS 1
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 3-1
vs RPI top 100 7-0
vs RPI top 150 7-0
vs sub RPI 150 8-0
NCAA tournament seed 1

Team D
30-2
RPI 6
SOS 96
NC SOS 41
Record vs RPI top 25 1-1
vs RPI top 50 5-1
vs RPI top 100 6-0
vs RPI top 150 2-0
vs sub RPI 150 16-0
NCAA tournament seed 1


Yet nobody in the freaking media can do this type of article and curtail the freaking propaganda to get the little engine that could a 1 seed.

I know the first 2 teams on your list, pretty sure about Team C, but not sure who Team D is. I'm with you on your point that WSU does not deserve a #1 seed. I think they've somewhat earned a 2. But, if I am being completely honest, I see them somewhere in the top 10-15 teams in the country...aka, basically a 3 seed.
 
I thought I had an idea who team C was, but apparently I was wrong. Was thinking Gonzaga from last year
 
I will give them all out if people can't figure them out. I think Knicks or Marsh will know all 4 of them.
 
Team A 2012 Murray State Racers
Team B 2014 Wichita State Shockers
Team C 2004 St. Joseph's Hawks
Team D 2013 Gonzaga Bulldogs
 
Ah, I suck. I was thinking one of them was St. Joes, but then for some reason I had it in my mind that 04 St. Joes was a 2 seed after they lost.

A fun one to put up there might be the GW team in like 06 or 07 that was 29-2 or something and was an 8 I wanna say?

Ha dammit; I knew one of them was Gonzaga from last year!!
 
Looks like Gonzaga, St. Joes and Murray St.

Wichita St. is definitely a step above Murray St (as weak as the MVC is, road tests in MVC are much more difficult than OVC), and a step below the other 2 in what they have accomplished in terms of wins. I still think there is some value in going undefeated and avoiding a bad loss.

Also placement on the 1 line is always dependent on the strength of the top teams around you.

I'm not that offended by a team like Wichita St getting a #1 to be honest - they may accomplish something no team has in 23 years has done, even against a limited schedule. They are also #7 in KenPom, which in my view validates them as a top 2 seed level team. If they get a 2 instead of a 1 its not a big deal either -- but I strongly suspect the committee will give them a #1.
 
Not from the same season and I think people will be able to figure them out anyway.

Team A
30-1
RPI 23
SOS 179
NC SOS 37
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 1-0
vs RPI top 150 11-1
vs sub RPI 150 17-0
NCAA tournment seed 6

Team B
30-0
RPI 9
SOS 119
NC SOS 33
Record vs RPI top 25 1-0
vs RPI top 50 1-0
vs RPI top 100 4-0
vs RPI top 150 11-0
vs sub RPI 150 14-0
projected NCAA tournament seed 1

Team C
27-1
RPI 2
SOS 69
NC SOS 1
Record vs RPI top 25 2-0
vs RPI top 50 3-1
vs RPI top 100 7-0
vs RPI top 150 7-0
vs sub RPI 150 8-0
NCAA tournament seed 1

Team D
30-2
RPI 6
SOS 96
NC SOS 41
Record vs RPI top 25 1-1
vs RPI top 50 5-1
vs RPI top 100 6-0
vs RPI top 150 2-0
vs sub RPI 150 16-0
NCAA tournament seed 1


Yet nobody in the freaking media can do this type of article and curtail the freaking propaganda to get the little engine that could a 1 seed.


Team A - Memphis
Team B - Wichita State
Team C - St Joes
Team D - Gonzaga
 
Looks like Gonzaga, St. Joes and Murray St.

Wichita St. is definitely a step above Murray St (as weak as the MVC is, road tests in MVC are much more difficult than OVC), and a step below the other 2 in what they have accomplished in terms of wins. I still think there is some value in going undefeated and avoiding a bad loss.

Also placement on the 1 line is always dependent on the strength of the top teams around you.

I'm not that offended by a team like Wichita St getting a #1 to be honest - they may accomplish something no team has in 23 years has done, even against a limited schedule. They are also #7 in KenPom, which in my view validates them as a top 2 seed level team. If they get a 2 instead of a 1 its not a big deal either -- but I strongly suspect the committee will give them a #1.
If they deserve a 2 then they should be a 2 seed. I think if the committee is going to stay its all about who you have played and beaten then reward such a crap resume it loses creditability in the future.
 
Team A 2012 Murray State Racers
Team B 2014 Wichita State Shockers
Team C 2004 St. Joseph's Hawks
Team D 2013 Gonzaga Bulldogs

Of course I know the first 3, but forget about Gonzaga from last year. For the record, I thought the Zags were a legit #1 seed. They proved me wrong!
 
Here is 2006 George Washington
26-2
RPI 37
NC SOS 323
record vs RPI top 25 0-0
vs RPI top 50 3-0
vs RPI top 100 2-2
vs RPI top 150 8-0
vs sub RPI 150 13-0
NCAA tournament seed 8

That NC SOS was atrocious and has be part of the reason Karl Dodds didn't survive much long at GW.
 
While we are talking about #1 seeds. How about Wisconsin?

Its become pretty clear that Wisconsin has become a very strong contender for a #1 seed again - unexpected after that 1-5 run in the Big 10. A win in the B10 tourney would put them as a clear cut #1 seed in my view, if they take care of Penn St, Nebraska and Purdue and finish 13-5 in the B10.

Let's revisit that resume

Major OOC Wins - H Florida, A Virginia, N St. Louis,
Quality OOC Wins.- N St. John's, A Green Bay, H Marquette, N West Virginia

That OOC win profile is perhaps the best in America. 3 teams that are going to be top 3 seeds.

Add in 2 wins vs Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, plus whatever big wins they would get in B10 tourney..

.
 
While we are talking about #1 seeds. How about Wisconsin?

Its become pretty clear that Wisconsin has become a very strong contender for a #1 seed again - unexpected after that 1-5 run in the Big 10. A win in the B10 tourney would put them as a clear cut #1 seed in my view, if they take care of Penn St, Nebraska and Purdue and finish 13-5 in the B10.

Let's revisit that resume

Major OOC Wins - H Florida, A Virginia, N St. Louis,
Quality OOC Wins.- N St. John's, A Green Bay, H Marquette, N West Virginia

That OOC win profile is perhaps the best in America. 3 teams that are going to be top 3 seeds.

Add in 2 wins vs Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, plus whatever big wins they would get in B10 tourney..

.
I got crap for saying Wisconsin had the best non-conference resume of anybody back in January and when I had them above Syracuse and Arizona until they lost and went on a tumble. They have a legit profile of a 1 seed and if they ran the table thru the rest of the season and won the B1G they would have to be a 1 seed even over Syracuse. That game @Nebraska will determine if they are playing for a 1 seed. Only 1 team this entire season has won in Lincoln, NE and that is Michigan by 2 points. If they beat Nebraska who will be playing for their NCAA lives then they are legit for a 1 seed. Wisconsin has the best profile of any team in the non-conference even more than Kansas because they went undefeated in non-conference play and have those quality wins you listed.
 
While we are talking about #1 seeds. How about Wisconsin?

Its become pretty clear that Wisconsin has become a very strong contender for a #1 seed again - unexpected after that 1-5 run in the Big 10. A win in the B10 tourney would put them as a clear cut #1 seed in my view, if they take care of Penn St, Nebraska and Purdue and finish 13-5 in the B10.

Let's revisit that resume

Major OOC Wins - H Florida, A Virginia, N St. Louis,
Quality OOC Wins.- N St. John's, A Green Bay, H Marquette, N West Virginia

That OOC win profile is perhaps the best in America. 3 teams that are going to be top 3 seeds.

Add in 2 wins vs Iowa, Michigan, Michigan St, plus whatever big wins they would get in B10 tourney..

.

Exactly why they were in my top 3 "least want to play". Wisconsin is chalk full of smart basketball players who do not take bad shots and can make the 3. They play at a very slow pace, and as we've seen repeatedly, we allow our opponents to dictate tempo.

If you wanted to create a team that would be the perfect fit against us, I think it's this team.
 
If they deserve a 2 then they should be a 2 seed. I think if the committee is going to stay its all about who you have played and beaten then reward such a crap resume it loses creditability in the future.

It's always hard to assess what a mid-major deserves. You can say it should get this based on what committee has done in past, but that is not necessarily the same as what it deserves. Your always comparing apples to oranges. If your comparing them to the metrics used to assess teams from major conferences (who are the contenders for #1 seeds over 90% of the time), of course they will come up short.

I am not going to fight hard for them as #1 or #2 (like I did for Gonzaga as a #1 last year). I think they earned one a top 2 seed in the context of this season, but its hard to compare them. Mid-Majors have not earned benefit of the doubt on the top lines.

I will fight harder for mid-majors on the bubble. They have clearly earned the benefit of the doubt, with teams like VCU, Wichita St, George Mason, Butler doing well from lower seeds.
 
It's always hard to assess what a mid-major deserves. You can say it should get this based on what committee has done in past, but that is not necessarily the same as what it deserves. Your always comparing apples to oranges. If your comparing them to the metrics used to assess teams from major conferences (who are the contenders for #1 seeds over 90% of the time), of course they will come up short.

I am not going to fight hard for them as #1 or #2 (like I did for Gonzaga as a #1 last year). I think they earned one a top 2 seed in the context of this season, but its hard to compare them. Mid-Majors have not earned benefit of the doubt on the top lines.

I will fight harder for mid-majors on the bubble. They have clearly earned the benefit of the doubt, with teams like VCU, Wichita St, George Mason, Butler doing well from lower seeds.
Look at who Gonzaga played last year versus whom Wichita State played. Gonzaga played every Big XII team practically minus Kansas and BYU, St. Mary's 5 times along with Butler. Wichita State will have played 1 team that will be in the NCAA tournament field albeit on the road as well. The bubble is a different story as those mid-major teams get less chances for elite wins due to their conferences, but the committee is supposed to rank the teams based off their resumes. Wichita State's resume IMO is barely worthy of a 2 seed. I realize the MVC is slightly better than the OVC, but the MVC lost its top brand Creighton from last year and Wichita State barely beat Missouri State on the road and no other team from the conference is even close to the bubble. Murray State was a 6 seed with 1 loss and Wichita State is going to move up 5 lines from that because of 1 loss. Look at their resumes more closely and you will see Wichita State is basically Murray State 2 more top 100 wins and 1 less loss. That is BS if that gets them a 1 seed. I would give Wichita State honestly a 3 seed as their resume is not one of the top 8 IMO
Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Wisconsin, Kansas, Duke, Villanova, Creighton ALL HAVE way more wins and better resumes than beating just St. Louis on the road, Alabama in T-town, Tennessee at home, and BYU/Depaul in Kansas City and bunch of sub 150 MVC teams.
 
The problem is a major conference team would get raped by the media for that OOC schedule. The thing is even with a crap OOC schedule if you are undefeated for the season going through one of the big 5 then you deserve a 1 seed. What does it mean for WichSt to be undefeated other than that for them they are having a great season. I'm pretty confident that there are at least 15 other teams that could pretty easily be undefeated against that schedule. Its still hard so drop a 3rd of them out and just say 10. How does that qualify you as a guaranteed 1 seed? The thing is the 1 seed line isn't stacked this year. If you have Kansas with only 3 losses or a Big10 a school with just 3 then it would be pretty crowded and they would be a 2 or 3. The schedule is excused away for WichSt which is fine so long as you realize that no one not even the team or coaches themselves has any idea how good they a really are when stacked against the other to 15 teams. They could be Pitt in the ACC and lose to every tourney team or they could be a legit top 10 squad we just don't know. I thought Gonzaga should have been a 2 last year they have the name to schedule better and they didn't.
The interesting thing to me is 1 loss could drop them up to 4/5 seed lines which alone tells you how unworthy their resume is other than the fact that it is unblemished. It is in other words a resume of no faults rather than a resume of strength.
 
Can someone explain to me the value in separating conference from non conference schedule in looking at resumes?
 
Can someone explain to me the value in separating conference from non conference schedule in looking at resumes?

It is supposed to show the committee how aggressively you scheduled OOC since this portion is up to each individual team while the conference schedule is out of their control. You can decide to go out and play good teams OOC. If your conference sucks you cannot simply decide to play in a better one that season.
 
Can someone explain to me the value in separating conference from non conference schedule in looking at resumes?
The reason I did that is because coaches control their non-conference schedules and don't control their conference schedules. If a coach knows they have a good team then should schedule appropriately if they want to get rewarded when the committee seeds teams. Mark Few at Gonzaga last year scheduled a lot of good teams and was rewarded even if people felt their resume wasn't 1 seed worthy. They played good teams while Mr. Play Angry who loves the limelight Greg Marshall scheduled St. Louis on the road, Alabama on the road, Tennessee at home. They played a tournament in Kansas City and couldn't help BYU beat Texas, but Marshall knew Creighton was leaving and scheduled horribly. They shouldn't be rewarded with a 1 seed when their resume isn't close to St. Joe's in 2004, Gonazga 2013 and is closer to Murray State 2012 than most realize.
 
The problem is a major conference team would get raped by the media for that OOC schedule

Its not a great schedule, but let's not pretend its a Pittsburgh level schedule. One can argue that Wichita St needs to schedule even better OOC because of its poor conference schedule to prove itself as a #1 seed. That I totally agree with. (Although, people need to realize Wichita St is scheduling to prove itself worthy of an at-large not a #1... they are not really cheating the system, this is not a place (i.e top seed lines) they were aiming for in my view)

But to say the Wichita OOC was horrid by major school standards is stretching it

Let's start with the OOC SOS numbers:
KP SOS - 106
RPI - 37

I realize limitations in pure SOS numbers as it sometimes could be impacted by a few extra games against low level competition. But other schools have played worse or similar in or near top 25( Louisville, Iowa, Ohio St, UCLA, Pittsburgh, Cincy, SMU)



I'm pretty confident that there are at least 15 other teams that could pretty easily be undefeated against that schedule

No way. Way too high.

Before I get far into this next point, some teams could have 1 loss with the exact same schedule and still be better than Wichita. Certainly luck, and lacking any terrible one-off games, is necessary to go undefeated. It does not mean you are better.


1) Wichita St is expected to be 5-0 vs 51-100, 14-0 vs 100-150 by end of regular season. Nothing that looks outstanding (and it really isn't), but consider other teams in top 25 that have a number of losses vs such teams.


a) Top 25 teams have lost 13 games, 13 GAMES!, against projected Sub 100 Teams - this includes Wisconsin, Duke, Syracuse, Michigan, UCLA, New Mexico, Ohio St, San Diego St, and UNC.

b) Only 8 teams in the country have not had one loss against a projected sub 50 team. And that list includes Wichita and St. Louis. Others are Florida, Villanova, Cincy, Louisville, Iowa and Memphis.

Basically any team is capable of having an off night. Running the table vs sub 50 teams is not easy. Other than Wichita we have 7 teams this year.

And I know some will state those other teams must have many more 51-100 games. Here are top 20 RPI teams teams, with no sub 100 losses, and a 51-100 loss, for the sake of comparison.

Wichita St 5-0
Arizona 5-1
Kansas 6-1
Creighton 7-2
Kentucky 11-2 (many more games, but 2 losses)
Iowa St 3-1
Virginia 7-2
Michigan St 3-2

Let's assume in a given year we have 8 teams that run the table vs 50-200 level teams - whomever those may be. Play the season over, it may be a totally different 8 teams.

An undefeated team will also have more pressure in all the games.


2) So we have 8 survivors vs sub 50 games. And consider the diversity of those teams that did it this year, Those teams now have to run the top 50 teams.

At St. Louis
N BYU

Winning at St. Louis is not easy, and let's remember its not the 8 best teams in the country that survived the sub 50 games in any year. I think its fair to say this is a 50/50 chance.

The more logical range, with data analysis (rather than a half assed assertion), is 3 to 6 teams (including Wichita St) may be undefeated with the Wichita St schedule.

Once again, Wichita St is not better than all the teams that have lost a game to a 51-200 opponent. Luck, and avoiding that off-night, is a big factor in going undefeated.


I thought Gonzaga should have been a 2 last year they have the name to schedule better and they didn't.

Gonzaga scheduled a poor OOC last year? Not sure how you can say that.



JORDOO - I would like to see any data that you have that supports "easily 15" teams would go undefeated. At a bare minimum, consider that 10 teams in the top 25 have lost to a sub 100 team this year.


As a final point I am not saying that Wichita St would go undefeated or close to it in a major conference schedule.
 
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Look at who Gonzaga played last year versus whom Wichita State played. Gonzaga played every Big XII team practically minus Kansas and BYU, St. Mary's 5 times along with Butler. Wichita State will have played 1 team that will be in the NCAA tournament field albeit on the road as well. The bubble is a different story as those mid-major teams get less chances for elite wins due to their conferences, but the committee is supposed to rank the teams based off their resumes. Wichita State's resume IMO is barely worthy of a 2 seed. I realize the MVC is slightly better than the OVC, but the MVC lost its top brand Creighton from last year and Wichita State barely beat Missouri State on the road and no other team from the conference is even close to the bubble. Murray State was a 6 seed with 1 loss and Wichita State is going to move up 5 lines from that because of 1 loss. Look at their resumes more closely and you will see Wichita State is basically Murray State 2 more top 100 wins and 1 less loss. That is BS if that gets them a 1 seed. I would give Wichita State honestly a 3 seed as their resume is not one of the top 8 IMO
Florida, Arizona, Syracuse, Wisconsin, Kansas, Duke, Villanova, Creighton ALL HAVE way more wins and better resumes than beating just St. Louis on the road, Alabama in T-town, Tennessee at home, and BYU/Depaul in Kansas City and bunch of sub 150 MVC teams.

I never disagreed on Gonzaga vs Wichita St.

As I said, Gonzaga I fought for as a #1 seed last year. They had data to support that stance. Wichita St not so much, so I am not going to that stand this year. The only thing we have is that going undefeated is not easy (but others would have accomplished it, but not that many), and a ranking like KP which has them at #7. Somewhere on the 2 seed line makes sense to me, although I will not fight the #1 seed (in or out)
 

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