Completely Outcoached Through 25 Minutes of Play

[SUFan44]

Offenses can't break the huddle with 12.

Defenses never huddle.

Well whatever it was, somebody was continually screwing up.

 

[money3189]

That's funny because I thought Dino thoroughly outcoached Narduzzi all game. Outside of a missed tackle and a kicker pulling 2 kicks out of his rear today we dominated.

I agree. The substitution penalties have to get clean up though but I saw a good game plan that wasn't executed by the players early on.

 

[TheCusian]

Looked like Narduzzi called SS about exotic blitz packages that we might struggle with. Babers and Dungey both said early our OL wasn’t picking them up well enough..

But halftime adjustments were all Babers.

 

[money3189]

Looked like Narduzzi called SS about exotic blitz packages that we might struggle with. Babers and Dungey both said early our OL wasn’t picking them up well enough..

But halftime adjustments were all Babers.

makes sense

 

[iommi]

I'll give a different take on Dino that won't win me many brownie points around here.

I think he teaches his offense well. Excellent representative of the school and handles the media and public speaking well. However, I don't think he is a good coach at all within games.

Game management is not good. I'm referring to things like clock management, getting subs in on time, etc. I like his aggression on going for 4th down but occasionally he goes overboard with that. The team has not been disciplined to say the least. Stupid penalties are the norm, not the exception. Discipline speaks to coaching. Not sure if if this is on the coordinators but the 12 men on the field penalties are a joke. I like the offensive system but apart from that, what has been impressive about his coaching, especially within games?

His recruiting has been ramping up but he's relying on Shafer's players quite a bit. Obviously, he didn't even have a full recruiting cycle his first season and not even two years into it, is not enough to judge him. So far, so good. Have to give him 4 full years to judge his recruiting and everything else. That said, I don't feel confident in his decision-making within games and the team is not much more disciplined than the last regime.

I'm glad he's our coach but feel too many people around here have a cult-like obsession with him. He's had one great win in 18 games. I'm not floored by that but again I'm giving him time.

(I put this rant in this thread; maybe should've started a new one)

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I'll give a different take on Dino that won't win me many brownie points around here.

I think he teaches his offense well. Excellent representative of the school and handles the media and public speaking well. However, I don't think he is a good coach at all within games.

Game management is not good. I'm referring to things like clock management, getting subs in on time, etc. I like his aggression on going for 4th down but occasionally he goes overboard with that. The team has not been disciplined to say the least. Stupid penalties are the norm, not the exception. Discipline speaks to coaching. Not sure if if this is on the coordinators but the 12 men on the field penalties are a joke. I like the offensive system but apart from that, what has been impressive about his coaching, especially within games?

His recruiting has been ramping up but he's relying on Shafer's players quite a bit. Obviously, he didn't even have a full recruiting cycle his first season and not even two years into it, is not enough to judge him. So far, so good. Have to give him 4 full years to judge his recruiting and everything else. That said, I don't feel confident in his decision-making within games and the team is not much more disciplined than the last regime.

I'm glad he's our coach but feel too many people around here have a cult-like obsession with him. He's had one great win in 18 games. I'm not floored by that but again I'm giving him time.

(I put this rant in this thread; maybe should've started a new one)

I think Babers can resurrect the program, but he needs to improve in-game coaching as you point out. What was the offensive game plan in the first half vs Pitt? Why did it take till after half time to figure it out? It was almost like "Hey! You know what we haven't tried? Let's try throwing to the middle of the field." That should have been obvious after 2 or 3 series when they went three and out.

 

[TheCusian]

I think Babers can resurrect the program, but he needs to improve in-game coaching as you point out. What was the offensive game plan in the first half vs Pitt? Why did it take till after half time to figure it out? It was almost like "Hey! You know what we haven't tried? Let's try throwing to the middle of the field." That should have been obvious after 2 or 3 series when they went three and out.

The blitzes they were bringing were “exotic” and the young OL was having a ton of trouble with that. It took halftime to get it right.

 

[TheCusian]

I'll give a different take on Dino that won't win me many brownie points around here.

I think he teaches his offense well. Excellent representative of the school and handles the media and public speaking well. However, I don't think he is a good coach at all within games.

Game management is not good. I'm referring to things like clock management, getting subs in on time, etc. I like his aggression on going for 4th down but occasionally he goes overboard with that. The team has not been disciplined to say the least. Stupid penalties are the norm, not the exception. Discipline speaks to coaching. Not sure if if this is on the coordinators but the 12 men on the field penalties are a joke. I like the offensive system but apart from that, what has been impressive about his coaching, especially within games?

His recruiting has been ramping up but he's relying on Shafer's players quite a bit. Obviously, he didn't even have a full recruiting cycle his first season and not even two years into it, is not enough to judge him. So far, so good. Have to give him 4 full years to judge his recruiting and everything else. That said, I don't feel confident in his decision-making within games and the team is not much more disciplined than the last regime.

I'm glad he's our coach but feel too many people around here have a cult-like obsession with him. He's had one great win in 18 games. I'm not floored by that but again I'm giving him time.

(I put this rant in this thread; maybe should've started a new one)

Pretty reasoned post. We shouldn’t be “cult like” - dangerous to just rubber stamp everything without thinking.

I disagree about his 4th down decisions. The math is very much in his favor, it just goes against the typical HC mantra - ie it looks weird because we grew up with these things going a certain way... I like it and think if we didn’t we’d have lost at least 2-3 more games. Extending drives leads to points.

The recruiting is getting better; every coach relies on seniors and juniors (Marrone won a lot of games with Robinson guys). As with all recruiting, we don’t know until they are here and playing. But here’s where your point breaks a bit - the JUCOs and transfers on D have really made a huge difference. He identified the issue, got guys with talent to come in, and they are performing way above expectations on D.

1 great win is 1 more than Shafer had.

The thing I can’t argue with is the penalties. Some are really egregious.

 

[upperdeck]

I dont think we changed all that much in the 2nd half. he doesnt call the plays and we didnt execute what was there.. some of thats on the QB as well.

 

[anomander]

I'll give a different take on Dino that won't win me many brownie points around here.

I think he teaches his offense well. Excellent representative of the school and handles the media and public speaking well. However, I don't think he is a good coach at all within games.

Game management is not good. I'm referring to things like clock management, getting subs in on time, etc. I like his aggression on going for 4th down but occasionally he goes overboard with that. The team has not been disciplined to say the least. Stupid penalties are the norm, not the exception. Discipline speaks to coaching. Not sure if if this is on the coordinators but the 12 men on the field penalties are a joke. I like the offensive system but apart from that, what has been impressive about his coaching, especially within games?

His recruiting has been ramping up but he's relying on Shafer's players quite a bit. Obviously, he didn't even have a full recruiting cycle his first season and not even two years into it, is not enough to judge him. So far, so good. Have to give him 4 full years to judge his recruiting and everything else. That said, I don't feel confident in his decision-making within games and the team is not much more disciplined than the last regime.

I'm glad he's our coach but feel too many people around here have a cult-like obsession with him. He's had one great win in 18 games. I'm not floored by that but again I'm giving him time.

(I put this rant in this thread; maybe should've started a new one)

I have to say that I completely disagree with most of this (which is fine).

I think Dino is the exact HC this program needs to lead us back to prominence...or at very worst not that but end of booger jokes.

I think his game management is fine. It's a breathe of fresh air not punting on 4th and short, or in some cases punting on 3rd down. His aggressive style go hand in hand on what he is trying to implement across the board. Sure there have been a couple questionable decisions, but when it comes to building and maintaining a program, it's basically irrelevant. There isn't a HC out there who consistently calls a clean game. Some of the very best HC's in the game have all had their decisions 2nd guessed. Anyone remember Bellichek going for it on his own 30, late in the game @ Indy? His in-game decisions are the very last thing I am worried about.

As fas as the penalties, it's been hit and miss. I think the last 2 games are fresh in people's memory so it's easy to point to, but there were 3 games we've had 4 penalties or less:
CCSU 4-28
MTSU 4-40
LSU 3-25

It's been pretty weird with the 12 man in the huddle and errors getting lined up correctly, but I wouldn't exactly call them disciple penalties. If they were accumulating personal fouls, and false starts, i'd be more likely to agree, but these are all things that can be easily corrected, especially when the kids become more familiar with the offense.

As far as the recruiting, I think Dino has done an outstanding job. Syracuse isn't a program who is going to bring in Freshman who are game ready. We're a program that is going to rely on development, so it's no surprise guys like Dungey, Ishmael, Erv, Zaire, Paris, and Slayton lead the way. Just think, out of those listed, only Dungey contributed in a major way. All the rest were small contributors, or didn't do much at all until they were sophomores. Now compare that to our 2 deep and you will see underclassmen all over the place. The entire starting OL are Babers recruits. Butler, Riley, and Johnson are Babers guys. On defense Foster, Coleman, Black are guys brought in by Dino. Then there are the impact JUCO's like Pierce, Robinson and Berry to go with the PG transfers Butler and Martin. My point is recruiting is fine and only getting better.

Most importantly, I now feel that we have a legitimate chance to win every time we step on the field. I definitely can't say that about the previous staff, and the results (blowouts) speak for themselves. I think people will realize just how good NCST is by the end of the year. LSU may be slightly down, but they just showed they have the talent by winning at UF. The program is heading in the right direction. I don't think there are many HC's that we would have the chance to bring in that could do a better job. I'm extremely confident he is the right choice, and are absolute best chance to bring the program back to relevance.

 

[iommi]

Pretty reasoned post. We shouldn’t be “cult like” - dangerous to just rubber stamp everything without thinking.

I disagree about his 4th down decisions. The math is very much in his favor, it just goes against the typical HC mantra - ie it looks weird because we grew up with these things going a certain way... I like it and think if we didn’t we’d have lost at least 2-3 more games. Extending drives leads to points.

The recruiting is getting better; every coach relies on seniors and juniors (Marrone won a lot of games with Robinson guys). As with all recruiting, we don’t know until they are here and playing. But here’s where your point breaks a bit - the JUCOs and transfers on D have really made a huge difference. He identified the issue, got guys with talent to come in, and they are performing way above expectations on D.

1 great win is 1 more than Shafer had.

The thing I can’t argue with is the penalties. Some are really egregious.

I said I liked his aggression and going for it on 4th but he tends to do it a little too much. Teams know we are going to do it too now but I just think that occasionally he needs to reign it in.

 

[PhatOrange]

There were 10 million false start penalties last year, barely any this year, obvious improvement. The 12 men, how many times has that even happened this year? I don’t recall any all season until last weekend. I think the hurry up no huddle sometimes lends itself to penalties though. A few hurt and sure I’d want to clean up some of the stupid ones but I really don’t care that much about it.

His in game decisions have been just fine. Adjustments great. Poeple are showing their meatheadedness with certain things. Players also need to execute (if Pierce just puts his shoulder down and runs hard instead of trying to shake and bake he easily gets that first down at the end of the game Saturday), but even if some decisions are head scratching, nobody is perfect. Some of you guys want something you’re never going to get.

Dino gets it, he’s the perfect guy for this job and I’d frankly give him an extension.

 

[Acuse]

I have to say that I completely disagree with most of this (which is fine).

I think Dino is the exact HC this program needs to lead us back to prominence...or at very worst not that but end of booger jokes.

I think his game management is fine. It's a breathe of fresh air not punting on 4th and short, or in some cases punting on 3rd down. His aggressive style go hand in hand on what he is trying to implement across the board. Sure there have been a couple questionable decisions, but when it comes to building and maintaining a program, it's basically irrelevant. There isn't a HC out there who consistently calls a clean game. Some of the very best HC's in the game have all had their decisions 2nd guessed. Anyone remember Bellichek going for it on his own 30, late in the game @ Indy? His in-game decisions are the very last thing I am worried about.

As fas as the penalties, it's been hit and miss. I think the last 2 games are fresh in people's memory so it's easy to point to, but there were 3 games we've had 4 penalties or less:
CCSU 4-28
MTSU 4-40
LSU 3-25

It's been pretty weird with the 12 man in the huddle and errors getting lined up correctly, but I wouldn't exactly call them disciple penalties. If they were accumulating personal fouls, and false starts, i'd be more likely to agree, but these are all things that can be easily corrected, especially when the kids become more familiar with the offense.

As far as the recruiting, I think Dino has done an outstanding job. Syracuse isn't a program who is going to bring in Freshman who are game ready. We're a program that is going to rely on development, so it's no surprise guys like Dungey, Ishmael, Erv, Zaire, Paris, and Slayton lead the way. Just think, out of those listed, only Dungey contributed in a major way. All the rest were small contributors, or didn't do much at all until they were sophomores. Now compare that to our 2 deep and you will see underclassmen all over the place. The entire starting OL are Babers recruits. Butler, Riley, and Johnson are Babers guys. On defense Foster, Coleman, Black are guys brought in by Dino. Then there are the impact JUCO's like Pierce, Robinson and Berry to go with the PG transfers Butler and Martin. My point is recruiting is fine and only getting better.

Most importantly, I now feel that we have a legitimate chance to win every time we step on the field. I definitely can't say that about the previous staff, and the results (blowouts) speak for themselves. I think people will realize just how good NCST is by the end of the year. LSU may be slightly down, but they just showed they have the talent by winning at UF. The program is heading in the right direction. I don't think there are many HC's that we would have the chance to bring in that could do a better job. I'm extremely confident he is the right choice, and are absolute best chance to bring the program back to relevance.

Thank you for this post. The fact that I feel like we have a legitimate chance to win against just about anyone on the schedule is a feeling that I did not have in the previous staff. This alone lets me know that we are making significant progress and that Dino and co. are right for us.

 

[PhatOrange]

I said I liked his aggression and going for it on 4th but he tends to do it a little too much. Teams know we are going to do it too now but I just think that occasionally he needs to reign it in.

Yeah, teams know yet Narduzzi had to burn a time-out because he was the only guy in the building who didn’t know Babers was going to go for it that one time.

IMO we go about the right amount of times and in the right spots. Our success rate is great and it extends drives. Hasn’t burned us at all that I can recall either.

 

[iommi]

I have to say that I completely disagree with most of this (which is fine).

I think Dino is the exact HC this program needs to lead us back to prominence...or at very worst not that but end of booger jokes.

I think his game management is fine. It's a breathe of fresh air not punting on 4th and short, or in some cases punting on 3rd down. His aggressive style go hand in hand on what he is trying to implement across the board. Sure there have been a couple questionable decisions, but when it comes to building and maintaining a program, it's basically irrelevant. There isn't a HC out there who consistently calls a clean game. Some of the very best HC's in the game have all had their decisions 2nd guessed. Anyone remember Bellichek going for it on his own 30, late in the game @ Indy? His in-game decisions are the very last thing I am worried about.

As fas as the penalties, it's been hit and miss. I think the last 2 games are fresh in people's memory so it's easy to point to, but there were 3 games we've had 4 penalties or less:
CCSU 4-28
MTSU 4-40
LSU 3-25

It's been pretty weird with the 12 man in the huddle and errors getting lined up correctly, but I wouldn't exactly call them disciple penalties. If they were accumulating personal fouls, and false starts, i'd be more likely to agree, but these are all things that can be easily corrected, especially when the kids become more familiar with the offense.

As far as the recruiting, I think Dino has done an outstanding job. Syracuse isn't a program who is going to bring in Freshman who are game ready. We're a program that is going to rely on development, so it's no surprise guys like Dungey, Ishmael, Erv, Zaire, Paris, and Slayton lead the way. Just think, out of those listed, only Dungey contributed in a major way. All the rest were small contributors, or didn't do much at all until they were sophomores. Now compare that to our 2 deep and you will see underclassmen all over the place. The entire starting OL are Babers recruits. Butler, Riley, and Johnson are Babers guys. On defense Foster, Coleman, Black are guys brought in by Dino. Then there are the impact JUCO's like Pierce, Robinson and Berry to go with the PG transfers Butler and Martin. My point is recruiting is fine and only getting better.

Most importantly, I now feel that we have a legitimate chance to win every time we step on the field. I definitely can't say that about the previous staff, and the results (blowouts) speak for themselves. I think people will realize just how good NCST is by the end of the year. LSU may be slightly down, but they just showed they have the talent by winning at UF. The program is heading in the right direction. I don't think there are many HC's that we would have the chance to bring in that could do a better job. I'm extremely confident he is the right choice, and are absolute best chance to bring the program back to relevance.

Fair post. On the penalties, I was referring to his entire tenure. I don't think it's been egregious overall but could be a lot cleaner now in year two. The NC State loss will look solid at year's end. People ripped those who put the in the BCS playoffs in the preseason. If they didn't lose that heartbreaker to the Gamecocks, they would've been in the conversation right now.

Again, I like Dimo but question a bunch of things, especially his in-game stuff.

 

[iommi]

Yeah, teams know yet Narduzzi had to burn a time-out because he was the only guy in the building who didn’t know Babers was going to go for it that one time.

IMO we go about the right amount of times and in the right spots. Our success rate is great and it extends drives. Hasn’t burned us at all that I can recall either.

Didn't it but us against MTSU once? Not sure but I think it did. Regardless, I like it but just think he does it a little too often, especially with Hof as our punter.

 

[PhatOrange]

Didn't it but us against MTSU once? Not sure but I think it did. Regardless, I like it but just think he does it a little too often, especially with Hof as our punter.

The MTSU game was bad. We beat that team 99 out of a 100x this year, oh well. Players were bad that game to. I sure as heck do not think we should punt more because of Hof. No way. I’m not in the conservative camp.

His in game stuff has been fantastic and you’re pooh poohing a couple of things is just nitpicking. 3 games in a row to we’ve come out and won the second half’s. So there’s no debating the adjustments being made.

 

[iommi]

The MTSU game was bad. We beat that team 99 out of a 100x this year, oh well. Players were bad that game to. I sure as heck do not think we should punt more because of Hof. No way. I’m not in the conservative camp.

His in game stuff has been fantastic and you’re pooh poohing a couple of things is just nitpicking. 3 games in a row to we’ve come out and won the second half’s. So there’s no debating the adjustments being made.

He made tremendous adjustments against NC ST. No debating that. I should've mentioned that, in fact,

 

[OrangeTarheel]

What happened with Ravian Pierce is a good example of why HCDB is a strong coach. Kid goes out and makes some boneheaded plays one game and turns around and completely leaves that behavior behind him in subsequent games. Last game was a breakout for him. That is detail oriented and someone - either HCDB or his staff - is effective at communicating change.

And I notice a big difference between the first and second halves. Our defense makes great adjustments. Our offense does what it can.

There have been some disappointing penalties the last two weeks that remind me of previous years ... that is discouraging but hopefully an easy fix compared to things like talent discrepancies and injuries.

 

[money3189]

I'll give a different take on Dino that won't win me many brownie points around here.

I think he teaches his offense well. Excellent representative of the school and handles the media and public speaking well. However, I don't think he is a good coach at all within games.

Game management is not good. I'm referring to things like clock management, getting subs in on time, etc. I like his aggression on going for 4th down but occasionally he goes overboard with that. The team has not been disciplined to say the least. Stupid penalties are the norm, not the exception. Discipline speaks to coaching. Not sure if if this is on the coordinators but the 12 men on the field penalties are a joke. I like the offensive system but apart from that, what has been impressive about his coaching, especially within games?

His recruiting has been ramping up but he's relying on Shafer's players quite a bit. Obviously, he didn't even have a full recruiting cycle his first season and not even two years into it, is not enough to judge him. So far, so good. Have to give him 4 full years to judge his recruiting and everything else. That said, I don't feel confident in his decision-making within games and the team is not much more disciplined than the last regime.

I'm glad he's our coach but feel too many people around here have a cult-like obsession with him. He's had one great win in 18 games. I'm not floored by that but again I'm giving him time.

(I put this rant in this thread; maybe should've started a new one)

Fair points.

 

[money3189]

I have to say that I completely disagree with most of this (which is fine).

I think Dino is the exact HC this program needs to lead us back to prominence...or at very worst not that but end of booger jokes.

I think his game management is fine. It's a breathe of fresh air not punting on 4th and short, or in some cases punting on 3rd down. His aggressive style go hand in hand on what he is trying to implement across the board. Sure there have been a couple questionable decisions, but when it comes to building and maintaining a program, it's basically irrelevant. There isn't a HC out there who consistently calls a clean game. Some of the very best HC's in the game have all had their decisions 2nd guessed. Anyone remember Bellichek going for it on his own 30, late in the game @ Indy? His in-game decisions are the very last thing I am worried about.

As fas as the penalties, it's been hit and miss. I think the last 2 games are fresh in people's memory so it's easy to point to, but there were 3 games we've had 4 penalties or less:
CCSU 4-28
MTSU 4-40
LSU 3-25

It's been pretty weird with the 12 man in the huddle and errors getting lined up correctly, but I wouldn't exactly call them disciple penalties. If they were accumulating personal fouls, and false starts, i'd be more likely to agree, but these are all things that can be easily corrected, especially when the kids become more familiar with the offense.

As far as the recruiting, I think Dino has done an outstanding job. Syracuse isn't a program who is going to bring in Freshman who are game ready. We're a program that is going to rely on development, so it's no surprise guys like Dungey, Ishmael, Erv, Zaire, Paris, and Slayton lead the way. Just think, out of those listed, only Dungey contributed in a major way. All the rest were small contributors, or didn't do much at all until they were sophomores. Now compare that to our 2 deep and you will see underclassmen all over the place. The entire starting OL are Babers recruits. Butler, Riley, and Johnson are Babers guys. On defense Foster, Coleman, Black are guys brought in by Dino. Then there are the impact JUCO's like Pierce, Robinson and Berry to go with the PG transfers Butler and Martin. My point is recruiting is fine and only getting better.

Most importantly, I now feel that we have a legitimate chance to win every time we step on the field. I definitely can't say that about the previous staff, and the results (blowouts) speak for themselves. I think people will realize just how good NCST is by the end of the year. LSU may be slightly down, but they just showed they have the talent by winning at UF. The program is heading in the right direction. I don't think there are many HC's that we would have the chance to bring in that could do a better job. I'm extremely confident he is the right choice, and are absolute best chance to bring the program back to relevance.

A lot of good points in this post too.

 

[SUskibum]

I said I liked his aggression and going for it on 4th but he tends to do it a little too much. Teams know we are going to do it too now but I just think that occasionally he needs to reign it in.

That’s funny because I was expecting and hoping he would be a little bit MORE aggressive at times.

Not to say he has been conservative but I think there have been a couple spots each game that he could dialed it up a little more.

That said, I agree with Phat, overall his in game has been fine, adjustments at half has been excellent and players fixing issues between games has also been decent (Pierce, Martin etc)

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[bnoro]

I said I liked his aggression and going for it on 4th but he tends to do it a little too much. Teams know we are going to do it too now but I just think that occasionally he needs to reign it in.

Could you provide examples of a time we shouldn't have gone for it on 4th down? When you have a shaky kicker like we do or are down multiple possessions I think it's always the correct risk to take. I wish he went for it on 4th down more, honestly. Time to get away from meathead football.

 

[iommi]

Could you provide examples of a time we shouldn't have gone for it on 4th down? When you have a shaky kicker like we do or are down multiple possessions I think it's always the correct risk to take. I wish he went for it on 4th down more, honestly. Time to get away from meathead football.

No, can't provide specific instances. It's not like I write this stuff down. Most of the time we have gotten the first. It's just my feeling that he overdoes it somewhat. And again, I do like that he goes for it a lot.