Conference Revenue's

[Jack_Ball]

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

CONFERENCE AVERAGE
1. SEC - $109,894,179
2. Big Ten - $101,913,930
3. Big 12 - $98,997,599
4. Pac 12 - $85,603,527
5. ACC - $82,393,045
6. AAC - $47,814,483

CONFERENCE MEDIAN
1. SEC - $114,661,912
2. Big Ten - $98,820,784
3. Big 12 - $86,455,341
4. Pac 12 - $85,455,062
5. ACC - $79,511,483
6. AAC - $45,437,943

BIG 12
1. Texas - $179,555,311
2. Oklahoma - $135,660,070
3. Baylor - $106,078,643
4. Kansas - $103,326,170
5. West Virginia - $87,265,473
6. Oklahoma State - $85,645,208
7. TCU - $80,608,562
8. Kansas State - $76,245,188
9. Texas Tech - $69,858,256
10. Iowa State - $65,733,110

ACC
1. Florida State - $121,319,469
2. Louisville - $104,325,208
3. Duke - $91,688,202
4. Syracuse - $87,175,761
5. Virginia - $87,059,237
6. North Carolina - $85,288,270
7. Virginia Tech - $81,298,133
8. Miami - $77,724,833
9. Clemson - $76,979,261
10. NC State - $76,839,435
11. Pittsburgh - $70,527,488
12. Boston College - $69,300,736
13. Georgia Tech - $65,304,486
14. Wake Forest - $58,672,116

BIG TEN
1. Ohio State - $170,903,135
2. Michigan - $132,336,025
3. Penn State - $127,930,142
4. Wisconsin - $125,790,567
5. Iowa - $107,404,210
6. Minnesota - $105,561,601
7. Nebraska - $103,763,277
8. Michigan State - $93,878,291
9. Indiana - $87,265,729
10. Maryland - $86,863,794
11. Purdue - $75,474,370
12. Illinois - $74,469,976
13. Northwestern - $70,028,074
14. Rutgers - $65,125,833

PAC 12
1. Stanford - $109,670,730
2. Southern Cal - $105,919,366
3. Washington - $103,540,117
4. UCLA - $96,912,767
5. Oregon - $85,823,502
6. California - $85,539,904
7. Arizona - $85,370,219
8. Arizona State - $83,706,393
9. Oregon State - $72,133,762
10. Colorado - $67,852,236
11. Washington State - $66,143,776
12. Utah - $64,629,551

SEC
1. Alabama - $150,620,199
2. LSU - $138,914,636
3. Florida - $130,772,416
4. Auburn - $126,647,970
5. Tennessee - $121,837,383
6. Arkansas - $116,166,428
7. Georgia - $116,151,279
8. South Carolina - $113,172,545
9. Kentucky - $110,450,933
10. Texas A&M - $110,004,867
11. Missouri - $83,943,459
12. Mississippi - $81,024,639
13. Vanderbilt - $70,661,736
14. Mississippi State - $68,150,018

AAC
1. Connecticut - $72,155,789
2. SMU - $55,349,010
3. Central Florida - $51,871,022
4. East Carolina - $48,743,915
5. South Florida - $46,895,838
6. Houston - $45,437,943
7. Cincinnati - $42,861,532
8. Memphis - $41,420,631
9. Tulane - $41,004,900
10. Tulsa - $40,329,852
11. Temple - $39,888,882


If Clemson can make the playoffs with revenues of only $77M then why can't we?

 

[TheCusian]

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/ CONFERENCE AVERAGE 1. SEC - $109,894,179 2. Big Ten - $101,913,930 3. Big 12 - $98,997,599 4. Pac 12 - $85,603,527 5. ACC - $82,393,045 6. AAC - $47,814,483 CONFERENCE MEDIAN 1. SEC - $114,661,912 2. Big Ten - $98,820,784 3. Big 12 - $86,455,341 4. Pac 12 - $85,455,062 5. ACC - $79,511,483 6. AAC - $45,437,943 BIG 12 1. Texas - $179,555,311 2. Oklahoma - $135,660,070 3. Baylor - $106,078,643 4. Kansas - $103,326,170 5. West Virginia - $87,265,473 6. Oklahoma State - $85,645,208 7. TCU - $80,608,562 8. Kansas State - $76,245,188 9. Texas Tech - $69,858,256 10. Iowa State - $65,733,110 ACC 1. Florida State - $121,319,469 2. Louisville - $104,325,208 3. Duke - $91,688,202 4. Syracuse - $87,175,761 5. Virginia - $87,059,237 6. North Carolina - $85,288,270 7. Virginia Tech - $81,298,133 8. Miami - $77,724,833 9. Clemson - $76,979,261 10. NC State - $76,839,435 11. Pittsburgh - $70,527,488 12. Boston College - $69,300,736 13. Georgia Tech - $65,304,486 14. Wake Forest - $58,672,116 BIG TEN 1. Ohio State - $170,903,135 2. Michigan - $132,336,025 3. Penn State - $127,930,142 4. Wisconsin - $125,790,567 5. Iowa - $107,404,210 6. Minnesota - $105,561,601 7. Nebraska - $103,763,277 8. Michigan State - $93,878,291 9. Indiana - $87,265,729 10. Maryland - $86,863,794 11. Purdue - $75,474,370 12. Illinois - $74,469,976 13. Northwestern - $70,028,074 14. Rutgers - $65,125,833 PAC 12 1. Stanford - $109,670,730 2. Southern Cal - $105,919,366 3. Washington - $103,540,117 4. UCLA - $96,912,767 5. Oregon - $85,823,502 6. California - $85,539,904 7. Arizona - $85,370,219 8. Arizona State - $83,706,393 9. Oregon State - $72,133,762 10. Colorado - $67,852,236 11. Washington State - $66,143,776 12. Utah - $64,629,551 SEC 1. Alabama - $150,620,199 2. LSU - $138,914,636 3. Florida - $130,772,416 4. Auburn - $126,647,970 5. Tennessee - $121,837,383 6. Arkansas - $116,166,428 7. Georgia - $116,151,279 8. South Carolina - $113,172,545 9. Kentucky - $110,450,933 10. Texas A&M - $110,004,867 11. Missouri - $83,943,459 12. Mississippi - $81,024,639 13. Vanderbilt - $70,661,736 14. Mississippi State - $68,150,018 AAC 1. Connecticut - $72,155,789 2. SMU - $55,349,010 3. Central Florida - $51,871,022 4. East Carolina - $48,743,915 5. South Florida - $46,895,838 6. Houston - $45,437,943 7. Cincinnati - $42,861,532 8. Memphis - $41,420,631 9. Tulane - $41,004,900 10. Tulsa - $40,329,852 11. Temple - $39,888,882 If Clemson can make the playoffs with revenues of only $77M then why can't we?

Boo$ter$

 

[Scooch]

I always assume figures like these are funky, but using them directionally it's clear that SU is one of only a handful of schools who generates more revenue from basketball than football. That plays into the equation I'm sure.

That being said, given the ACC media contract and our own self-generated revenue it seems like we have enough resources to compete. What we lacked was institutional commitment to pay a staff competitively, high quality facilities and a disadvantaged recruiting base. I think we've solved the first two, and the latter can be overcome to some extent if our new brand of offensive football is a success.

Lots of reasons for optimism.

 

[elimunelson]

Syracuse should never ever cry poor. Our only disadvantage is we don't have alumni boosters who are idiotically dumping money into sports programs. Guys like Marty Whitman spend intelligently on things like business schools.

It makes me laugh when I see LSU boosters looking to write 17mm checks to dump Les Miles when their university is perilously close to being bankrupt.

Lots of reasons for optimism for a school like Syracuse that is planning smartly.

 

[PhatOrange]

87 million in revenue does not mean 87 million in profit. I'm sure our expenses far exceed all of the state schools. nonetheless.

 

[kcsu]

87 million in revenue does not mean 87 million in profit. I'm sure our expenses far exceed all of the state schools. nonetheless.

Money is no longer the issue. I hope that Babers brings us back to a solid level. When that happens the Dome will fill and we should top the 95M range per year. If we cant make it happen with that amount of money we should hang it up

 

[upperdeck]

if we boost ticket sales for football 10K by being good and not bad that only changes the net by a few million, that just shows how little people in the seats changes revenue.

 

[Scooch]

87 million in revenue does not mean 87 million in profit. I'm sure our expenses far exceed all of the state schools. nonetheless.

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

 

[Chip]

I always assume figures like these are funky, but using them directionally it's clear that SU is one of only a handful of schools who generates more revenue from basketball than football. That plays into the equation I'm sure.

That being said, given the ACC media contract and our own self-generated revenue it seems like we have enough resources to compete. What we lacked was institutional commitment to pay a staff competitively, high quality facilities and a disadvantaged recruiting base. I think we've solved the first two, and the latter can be overcome to some extent if our new brand of offensive football is a success.

Lots of reasons for optimism.

Maybe it's an opportunity cost issue that we struggled with. We know we get less in donations than the bigger schools. We know we get less in football ticket revenue (which impacts concessions, etc.) than almost every school. So even though we see a big # there, we know how much bigger of a # it could be. So they try to solve that problem first.

Who knows. But I think we took a big step in turning that # into something bigger with the Babers hire. Maybe not in 2016 as there could be a wait and see effect, but it should go up.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

glad you weighed in on this because it looked crooked to me.

couldnt figure out how the # was so high, figured it had to be hoop...but was wondering where the hell it all went then.

the expense angle lacking state funds makes sense.

we start putting another 15k in the Dome for football and that should generate another 4-5mill, which would more than cover coaches salaries.

 

[Hoo's That]

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

The state schools of the ACC do not get money from the state to support athletics. That said, if the PE classes "need" a new pool that meets the specs of the swim & dive team, there is some state and federal money available to go toward that, but not the whole bill. "State money" does come from student activity fees collected by the Bursar at registration to the athletic departments. UVa is supposed to have one of the highest ones, but the students do get free admission to all regular season athletic events as part of it. All scholarship money must come from fund raising; none, zero, zip, nada money comes from the financial aid office for athletes' scholarships or stipends whenever they are instituted. All money to pay for coaches' buyouts must come from fund raising, no government money can be involved. Just about all of the coaches have a state budget line item that pays a part of their salary. For football and men's bball it's like $100K of their salary. Others get less from the state.

UVa basically operates as a private school since we only get 7% of our budget from the state. All of the endowment and 93% of the operating budget come from other sources. We threatened to go private back in the 90s. Plans were put together that something like 3 schools would be run for Va like you run Envi Sci for SUNY, but the undergraduate and graduate Arts & Sciences, business, and Engineering Schools would be private. The Legislature was not amused. The President of William & Mary has started making noises about taking them private again. The President of UVa hasn't said anything, but she really doesn't have to because everyone knows we'd dust off those plans from the 90s and implement them in a heartbeat.

 

[supp]

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

CONFERENCE AVERAGE
1. SEC - $109,894,179
2. Big Ten - $101,913,930
3. Big 12 - $98,997,599
4. Pac 12 - $85,603,527
5. ACC - $82,393,045
6. AAC - $47,814,483

CONFERENCE MEDIAN
1. SEC - $114,661,912
2. Big Ten - $98,820,784
3. Big 12 - $86,455,341
4. Pac 12 - $85,455,062
5. ACC - $79,511,483
6. AAC - $45,437,943

BIG 12
1. Texas - $179,555,311
2. Oklahoma - $135,660,070
3. Baylor - $106,078,643
4. Kansas - $103,326,170
5. West Virginia - $87,265,473
6. Oklahoma State - $85,645,208
7. TCU - $80,608,562
8. Kansas State - $76,245,188
9. Texas Tech - $69,858,256
10. Iowa State - $65,733,110

ACC
1. Florida State - $121,319,469
2. Louisville - $104,325,208
3. Duke - $91,688,202
4. Syracuse - $87,175,761
5. Virginia - $87,059,237
6. North Carolina - $85,288,270
7. Virginia Tech - $81,298,133
8. Miami - $77,724,833
9. Clemson - $76,979,261
10. NC State - $76,839,435
11. Pittsburgh - $70,527,488
12. Boston College - $69,300,736
13. Georgia Tech - $65,304,486
14. Wake Forest - $58,672,116

BIG TEN
1. Ohio State - $170,903,135
2. Michigan - $132,336,025
3. Penn State - $127,930,142
4. Wisconsin - $125,790,567
5. Iowa - $107,404,210
6. Minnesota - $105,561,601
7. Nebraska - $103,763,277
8. Michigan State - $93,878,291
9. Indiana - $87,265,729
10. Maryland - $86,863,794
11. Purdue - $75,474,370
12. Illinois - $74,469,976
13. Northwestern - $70,028,074
14. Rutgers - $65,125,833

PAC 12
1. Stanford - $109,670,730
2. Southern Cal - $105,919,366
3. Washington - $103,540,117
4. UCLA - $96,912,767
5. Oregon - $85,823,502
6. California - $85,539,904
7. Arizona - $85,370,219
8. Arizona State - $83,706,393
9. Oregon State - $72,133,762
10. Colorado - $67,852,236
11. Washington State - $66,143,776
12. Utah - $64,629,551

SEC
1. Alabama - $150,620,199
2. LSU - $138,914,636
3. Florida - $130,772,416
4. Auburn - $126,647,970
5. Tennessee - $121,837,383
6. Arkansas - $116,166,428
7. Georgia - $116,151,279
8. South Carolina - $113,172,545
9. Kentucky - $110,450,933
10. Texas A&M - $110,004,867
11. Missouri - $83,943,459
12. Mississippi - $81,024,639
13. Vanderbilt - $70,661,736
14. Mississippi State - $68,150,018

AAC
1. Connecticut - $72,155,789
2. SMU - $55,349,010
3. Central Florida - $51,871,022
4. East Carolina - $48,743,915
5. South Florida - $46,895,838
6. Houston - $45,437,943
7. Cincinnati - $42,861,532
8. Memphis - $41,420,631
9. Tulane - $41,004,900
10. Tulsa - $40,329,852
11. Temple - $39,888,882


If Clemson can make the playoffs with revenues of only $77M then why can't we?

The gap between the P5 conferences is not that bad when you take out the outliers. Texas at $180 million? OSU at at $170 million? Bama at $150 million? The P12 and ACC are more "egalitarian" conferences in terms of revenue and results on the field bear out that parity most years. The figures also show what a difference football success can make to your bottom line. I doubt Baylor was near the top of their league in revenues 10 years ago.

 

[Moontan]

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

TCoA for private schools is around $60k. For public schools it's around $40k, $25k if instate.

Assuming 200 scholarships, with half instate that's a difference of $20k*100 + $35k*100 = $5.5m per year.

 

[jgeorge322]

The dome will be full once we start winning. Its an amazing place when its full. Recruits will love it. Its all a snowball effect.

 

[BlazeOrange]

TCoA for private schools is around $60k. For public schools it's around $40k, $25k if instate.

Assuming 200 scholarships, with half instate that's a difference of $20k*100 + $35k*100 = $5.5m per year.

True, but much like the Dome rental situation, that money is being passed from one SU entity to another. I know they have to account for the higher tuition on paper, but are SU's actual educational expenses that much more than the state schools? Seems that there should be a legit way to return some of those profits to the teams.

 

[OrangeJohn]

UVa basically operates as a private school since we only get 7% of our budget from the state. All of the endowment and 93% of the operating budget come from other sources. We threatened to go private back in the 90s. [/QUOTE]

How would UVa benefit by going private?

 

[Hoo's That]

UVa and W&M are basically paying their own way now, and becoming private schools would get us out from being held captive to the whims of Richmond (such as the 65-35 law limit on out-of-state students, which really only affects UVa and W&M). The first plans to have UVa go private came about because the then-governor wanted to pool all contributions to state schools and dole them out as necessary. Since nearly all the money would have come from us, our alums and administration didn't like it one bit. UVa and W&M believe they would benefit because everyone would pay, at a minimum, what is now the out-of-state tuition. The quality of the students would go up because more of them would have to meet the academic standards that out-of-state students need to have in order to be competitive for admission, which are higher than the in-state students need now. The middle 50% SAT totals are from 1870-2180. I really don't think a non-athlete out-of-stater gets in with an 1870 total. There's a lot of resentment among the in-staters over the quotas for admission from the various regions of Va. UVa has divided Va into 4 regions of roughly equal population and admits a roughly equal number of students from each: Northern Va (NoVa); Richmond and central Va; Tidewater (Norfolk); and Southwest Va (Roanoke and the "tail" that sits under WVa). NoVa insists it's being shortchanged (it's not) and everyone gripes there are too many (better known as "any") students admitted from Southwest, especially since "their schools are not as good as everyone else's" and "they're the ones admitted with the 1870 totals". The geographic quota system would be one of the first things to go. Bottom line, UVa and W&M want to become Va's versions of Vanderbilt, Duke, Rice, and Tulane and leave the State U stuff to Va Tech.

 

[Scooch]

TCoA for private schools is around $60k. For public schools it's around $40k, $25k if instate. Assuming 200 scholarships, with half instate that's a difference of $20k*100 + $35k*100 = $5.5m per year.

Gotcha. I get that's a bigger "expense" from an accounting standpoint but would that have a real impact on SU's ability to compete?

 

[omniorange]

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

Interesting question. I have always been dubious about how institutions complete the form necessary to populate this government site, but assuming everyone completes the same form and includes what it needs to include for what is necessary to determine overall revenue and overall expenses then the net profit is going to come as a real headscratcher for everyone on this board. I will list net revenue from worse to first (with some gaps in-between for emphasis):

BC and Pitt - zero (which usually means they are bleeding money)
Clemson - 131,635
UNC - 176,948

Duke - 513,479
Wake - 806,999

Miami - 1,229,013
UVa - 1,303,840

GT - 2,007,738
VT - 2,511,409
L'Ville - 2,700,770





NC State - 13,186,542
SU - 19,784,567
FSU - 23,609,453

I defy anyone to make sense of these figures.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[PhatOrange]

Do our expenses outpace public schools because we're not receiving state funding? Aside from the AD "renting" the Dome what expenses do we incur that state schools do not? Curious.

A roster worth of football scholarships costs over 4 million a year on paper.

 

[PhatOrange]

Gotcha. I get that's a bigger "expense" from an accounting standpoint but would that have a real impact on SU's ability to compete?

the only thing that hinders the ability to compete is coaching salaries, recruiting and facilities. But it's not like we have 87 million to throw at sports.

All costs (goods and services) are more expensive in NY compared to Southern State schools.

 

[Scooch]

the only thing that hinders the ability to compete is coaching salaries, recruiting and facilities. But it's not like we have 87 million to throw at sports. All costs (goods and services) are more expensive in NY compared to Southern State schools.

Yep, I agree with most of that. It seems that SU has enough to pay its coaches competitively, and build & maintain adequate facilities. Cost of living in central NY is pretty low compared to many regions of the country as well, which helps.

SU also fields one of the smallest amounts of teams in the ACC, and in P5. So our higher scholarship costs are offset by the fact that many schools have 10+ more teams than we do.

All in all I think we have enough to compete in football from a revenue standpoint. We just need better coaching and recruiting.

 

[omniorange]

Yep, I agree with most of that. It seems that SU has enough to pay its coaches competitively, and build & maintain adequate facilities. Cost of living in central NY is pretty low compared to many regions of the country as well, which helps.

SU also fields one of the smallest amounts of teams in the ACC, and in P5. So our higher scholarship costs are offset by the fact that many schools have 10+ more teams than we do.

All in all I think we have enough to compete in football from a revenue standpoint. We just need better coaching and recruiting.

I thought that was the case in terms of smallest number of teams, but the site linked above also looks at that figure as well and breaks it down in terms of men vs women. The site does combine all track teams (cross-country, indoor and outdoor track) as being one team (although separate teams of all-track for men and women) as well as combining swimming and diving into one team. When using the OPE method, only 4 ACC programs sponsor 20 or more teams. The rest are comparable to SU.

BC - 27
UNC - 24
Duke - 22
UVa - 21


L'Ville - 19
NC State and VT - 18
SU and FSU - 16
Clemson and Pitt - 15
Miami, Wake and GT - 14

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Moontan]

True, but much like the Dome rental situation, that money is being passed from one SU entity to another. I know they have to account for the higher tuition on paper, but are SU's actual educational expenses that much more than the state schools? Seems that there should be a legit way to return some of those profits to the teams.

In 2012-13, NYS provided $3,381.1B in subsidies to SUNY. This worked out to $7,357 per student.

I'm looking at a Huffington Post article on my computer relating to subsidies (including student fees) for college athletics.

Rather interesting... The top two P5 programs to receive subsidies are obvious.

I may clean this up a bit later.

P5
Rutgers gets 48% of its athletics budget from subsidies : $33.4m/yr [28% from student fees]
Maryland 25% : $16.65m/yr [65% student fees]
Oregon St 24% : $14.78m/yr [17% student fees]
Virginia 16% : $13.4m/yr [100% student fees]
Louisville 11% : $9.97m/yr [20% student fees] expensive hookers/strippers
Utah 23% : $9.94m/yr [58% student fees]
Wash St 21% : $9.62m/yr [14% student fees]
UNC 11% : $9.33m/yr [79% student fees] some expensive fake degrees
FSU 9% : $7.96m/yr [99% student fees]
VPI 11% : $7.91m/yr [96% student fees]
Minnesota 9% : $7.86m/yr [none]
Colorado 76% : $7.81m/yr [26% student fees]
Arizona 10% : $7.58m/yr [none]
Wisconsin 6% : $7.4m/yr none]
GA Tech 11% : $7m/yr [72% student fees]
OK St 7% : $6.82m/yr [34% student fees] T. Boone, where are you?
Alabama 4% : $5.69m/yr [none]
NC St 9% : $5.32m/yr [92% student fees]
TTech 7% : $4.91m/yr [61% student fees]
Florida 4% : $4.54m/yr [56% student fees]
Clemson 7% : $4.8m/yr [21% student fees]
Illinois 5% : $4.1m/yr [76% student fees]
Miss St 7% : $4m/yr [92% student fees]
Ole Miss 6% : $3.54m/yr [47% student fees]
Georgia 3% : $3.35m/yr [100% student fees]
Kansas 4% : $3.19m/yr [47% student fees]
USCe 3% : $3.06m/yr [80% student fees]
Washington : $3.01m/yr [none]
MSU 3% : $2.95m/yr [none]
WVU... 6% : $2.77m/yr [97% student fees]
ISU 5% : $2.68m/yr [65% student fees]
Oregon 2% : $2.51m/yr [64% student fees] Nike, really?
KSU 5% : $2.47m/yr [21% student fees]
Mizzou 3% : $2.16m/yr [none]
Arkansas 2% : $1.96m/yr [none]
aTm 1% : $1.44m/yr [none]
Kentucky 1% : $848k/yr [100% student fees]
Iowa 1% : $620k/yr [100% student fees] why?
Michigan 0% : $265k [none] ??

No subsidies: tO$U, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Purdue, Texas

G5
UNLV 55% : $32.23m/yr [8% student fees]
UMass 80% : $24.29m/yr [34% student fees]
Buffalo 77% : $22.12m/yr [37% student fees]
Houston 57% : $22.08m/yr [27% student fees]
Cincy 37% : $19.27m/yr [none]
Yukon 29% : $19.17m/yr [50% student fees]
USF 39% : $17.96m/yr [88% student fees]
Memphis 37% : $17.31m/yr [49% student fees]
ECU 42% : $15m/yr [81% student fees]
FAU 66% : $14.66m/yr [76% student fees]
GA State 84% : $20.9m/yr [85% student fees]
MTSU 70% : $19m/yr [42% student fees]
Marshall 48% : $13.45m/yr [32% student fees]
Kennesaw 86% : $11.5/yr [75% student fees]
Toledo 52% : $11.42m/yr [96% student fees]
EMU... $24m per year
CMU 69% : $18.7m/yr [0%]

Others
Stony Brook 77% : $19.77m/yr [38% student fees]

SUNY Albany 82% : $13.6m/yr [47% student fees]
SUNY Binghamton 78% : $11.4m/yr [50% student fees]

 

[OrangeJohn]

UVa and W&M are basically paying their own way now, and becoming private schools would get us out from being held captive to the whims of Richmond (such as the 65-35 law limit on out-of-state students, which really only affects UVa and W&M). The first plans to have UVa go private came about because the then-governor wanted to pool all contributions to state schools and dole them out as necessary. Since nearly all the money would have come from us, our alums and administration didn't like it one bit. UVa and W&M believe they would benefit because everyone would pay, at a minimum, what is now the out-of-state tuition. The quality of the students would go up because more of them would have to meet the academic standards that out-of-state students need to have in order to be competitive for admission, which are higher than the in-state students need now. The middle 50% SAT totals are from 1870-2180. I really don't think a non-athlete out-of-stater gets in with an 1870 total. There's a lot of resentment among the in-staters over the quotas for admission from the various regions of Va. UVa has divided Va into 4 regions of roughly equal population and admits a roughly equal number of students from each: Northern Va (NoVa); Richmond and central Va; Tidewater (Norfolk); and Southwest Va (Roanoke and the "tail" that sits under WVa). NoVa insists it's being shortchanged (it's not) and everyone gripes there are too many (better known as "any") students admitted from Southwest, especially since "their schools are not as good as everyone else's" and "they're the ones admitted with the 1870 totals". The geographic quota system would be one of the first things to go. Bottom line, UVa and W&M want to become Va's versions of Vanderbilt, Duke, Rice, and Tulane and leave the State U stuff to Va Tech.

Interesting! Thank you for explaining.

Of course, we won't be able to call UVa and W&M "public ivies" anymore if they ever go private.